weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2015 16:42:26 GMT -5
Sorry false alarm folk, I just looked at the South pole,, Yea they still have all their ice, Yea that just saved all of you living in low areas from having to move tomorrow. Seriously? Are you unaware that the Antarctic is SO much colder than the Arctic? So cold that the average temperature is -49? So cold that the ice never melts? Arguing with a climate change denier is like arguing with a six year old.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 7, 2015 19:09:58 GMT -5
Do some research on "Inuits on Climate Change." Straight from the mouths of people who actually live there. Unbiased enough for you? Or do you prefer the words of some fat redneck, sitting in his barcalounger, slamming back another Pabst Blue Ribbon, looking out his window and seeing snow, while sagely proclaiming "It's snowing! What climate change? Hyuck, hyuck!" the orthodoxy on the right prevents any real learning. if we can't even use the language of science to do research, then we might as well just go back to the Stone Age. Problem is they are not just doing research...they are creating predictions and issuing "facts" (that many take as concrete) on something scientists admit they do not fully understand. That is not the scientific theory - that is fearmongering and propaganda in order to control people (or at least force change on people). Not cool...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 7, 2015 19:13:16 GMT -5
the orthodoxy on the right prevents any real learning. if we can't even use the language of science to do research, then we might as well just go back to the Stone Age. Problem is they are not just doing research...they are creating predictions and issuing "facts" (that many take as concrete) on something scientists admit they do not fully understand. That is not the scientific theory - that is fearmongering and propaganda in order to control people (or at least force change on people). Not cool... who are "they"? if you are trying to make a blanket statement about climatologists, i don't think you can do that. scientists are all different. but for the record, a good scientist looks analyzes data and reports findings. if reporting it scares people, tough shit. scientists often take great risks in their findings- Galileo, for example. he was called a heretic. remind you of anything?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 7, 2015 19:30:14 GMT -5
Uncommon extreme drought, uncommon extreme rain/snow fall in areas, weather patterns shifting, oceans currents patterns changing and rising temperature within the currents water salinity decreasing, those are just a few signs that the global warming is happening. Some of it is part of the normal cycling of the planet but most of it is man induced.
And since you are saying that Florida is still above water, I have to ask why does it have to be Florida or any part of US that goes under water? Are you stating that you as an individual or us as a people should consider this premis only if it affects us directly? In other words forget about those people in the Pacific whose homes are already at the brink and foresee that within the next five years they will have a few inches of water lying on their island. Not too long ago, I read an article about some islands in the Malayesia where they already started the exodus due to rising waters. Their closest and best bet would be Sumatra Island who's government refuses to allow them in on the account that climate change is a hoax. Wow...well if the right doesn't understand the science, obviously the left can't do math.
So what is causing the warming? The science says CO2 emissions, correct? Yet the math shows humans contribute about 2-4% (depending on which source you look at) of total CO2 emissions each year. The rest is part of the naturally occurring CO2. Tell nature to stop pissing so much in the pot and the problem goes away
You also have to look at our agriculture today vs what is was in ages past. Plantlife today has been carbon dioxide deficient because of the lessened amount of CO2in the air vs ages past (millenia ago). To make up for this, plantlife (i.e. crops) use much more water than their carbon-dioxide-rich ancestors. So if there is more CO2 in the air, it might help plants/crops to become more dependent on the extra CO2 - thereby reducing their need for water. That would actually be a good thing (look to California for a reason why).
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 7, 2015 19:31:46 GMT -5
Problem is they are not just doing research...they are creating predictions and issuing "facts" (that many take as concrete) on something scientists admit they do not fully understand. That is not the scientific theory - that is fearmongering and propaganda in order to control people (or at least force change on people). Not cool... who are "they"? if you are trying to make a blanket statement about climatologists, i don't think you can do that. scientists are all different. but for the record, a good scientist looks analyzes data and reports findings. if reporting it scares people, tough shit. scientists often take great risks in their findings- Galileo, for example. he was called a heretic. remind you of anything?Why yes...it reminds me of any scientist who DARES question the global warming propaganda, or who doesn't tow the AGW line of end of world prophecies.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2015 19:45:07 GMT -5
Problem is they are not just doing research...they are creating predictions and issuing "facts" (that many take as concrete) on something scientists admit they do not fully understand. That is not the scientific theory - that is fearmongering and propaganda in order to control people (or at least force change on people). Not cool... who are "they"? if you are trying to make a blanket statement about climatologists, i don't think you can do that. scientists are all different. but for the record, a good scientist looks analyzes data and reports findings. if reporting it scares people, tough shit. scientists often take great risks in their findings- Galileo, for example. he was called a heretic. remind you of anything? Why, yes! Yes it does! It reminds me of Stephen Harper, who muzzled all the scientists and denied them access to their own research. It wasn't good for business, you know. Tar Sands business. Mining business. Lumber business.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 7, 2015 19:53:47 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 7, 2015 20:17:51 GMT -5
who are "they"? if you are trying to make a blanket statement about climatologists, i don't think you can do that. scientists are all different. but for the record, a good scientist looks analyzes data and reports findings. if reporting it scares people, tough shit. scientists often take great risks in their findings- Galileo, for example. he was called a heretic. remind you of anything?Why yes...it reminds me of any scientist who DARES question the global warming propaganda, or who doesn't tow the AGW line of end of world prophecies. you fell right into that one, jk! (this is precisely the response i predicted)
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 7, 2015 20:19:58 GMT -5
if any of the climate change deniers gets into the oval office, you can count on the same down here.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 7, 2015 20:48:25 GMT -5
Any time I look for unbiased research papers on a climate subject, the second I see the words "Climate Change or Global Warming" I know that this will not be an unbiased report. Pretty simple. why? are you suggesting that there is NO climate change and NO global warming? because even PAUL agrees that there are. I absolutey believe in climate change, it has been changing since the first day the sun came up. I just have question about how much man contributes to it. Was it a Climate scientist that said that all of the Arctic ice would be gone by 2012?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 7, 2015 21:02:48 GMT -5
Sorry false alarm folk, I just looked at the South pole,, Yea they still have all their ice, Yea that just saved all of you living in low areas from having to move tomorrow. Seriously? Are you unaware that the Antarctic is SO much colder than the Arctic? So cold that the average temperature is -49? So cold that the ice never melts? Arguing with a climate change denier is like arguing with a six year old.
OK I will ask one more time. How much has the Ocean risen in the last 100 years, This needs to be scientific unbiased. I have really looked, I have not been able to find that is unbiased and scientific. The nature Conservative. Greenpeace, the Sierra Club or any of our government agency that are run by Long Haired Socialist Hippy Freaks. that get their funding for proving Climate Change, Like I said unbiased. Let's see if any of you are smarter than a six year old.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 7, 2015 21:06:38 GMT -5
If you can come up with a report from a Oil Co. saying that global warming is caused by Carbon emissions from man,
then You Have me. on your side.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 7, 2015 21:56:04 GMT -5
why? are you suggesting that there is NO climate change and NO global warming? because even PAUL agrees that there are. I absolutey believe in climate change, it has been changing since the first day the sun came up. then why did you say you won't read a study that analyzes it?I just have question about how much man contributes to it. likewise. but ignoring studies that discuss it is no way to answer that quesiton.Was it a Climate scientist that said that all of the Arctic ice would be gone by 2012? i have no idea. but to me, that is like predicting that we would colonize Mars by 2012. fools errand. point: the future is not a fact. you can make guesses about it. some better than others.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 7, 2015 21:57:22 GMT -5
If you can come up with a report from a Oil Co. saying that global warming is caused by Carbon emissions from man, then You Have me. on your side. i don't trust anything an oil company puts out.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 8, 2015 6:13:21 GMT -5
I know if we get a report out of an Oil Co. saying that global warming is caused by man, I'm buying stock in the Greenland Farm Co.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 13:46:25 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2015 13:48:29 GMT -5
Seriously? Are you unaware that the Antarctic is SO much colder than the Arctic? So cold that the average temperature is -49? So cold that the ice never melts? Arguing with a climate change denier is like arguing with a six year old.
Global warming alarmists talking about climate change deniers and visa-versa. So far all I've seen is unproven theories from the alarmist side. all i have seen is data. data that shows that we are warming. we can all argue about the reasons, and the future. that is fine. argue away. but please, let's not argue about the data. tyia.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 13:55:15 GMT -5
I added a link providing data for global oil usage to my post. Nothing to argue about.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 8, 2015 17:34:41 GMT -5
Global warming alarmists talking about climate change deniers and visa-versa. So far all I've seen is unproven theories from the alarmist side. all i have seen is data. data that shows that we are warming. we can all argue about the reasons, and the future. that is fine. argue away. but please, let's not argue about the data. tyia. Yes, but let's see all the data...not just the cherry-picked and/or manipulated UN bullshit
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 8, 2015 17:35:53 GMT -5
Why yes...it reminds me of any scientist who DARES question the global warming propaganda, or who doesn't tow the AGW line of end of world prophecies. you fell right into that one, jk! (this is precisely the response i predicted) Probably because I've stated that on here several times before...it's not like you are a member of the psychic friends network or anything
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Sept 8, 2015 17:39:22 GMT -5
"A 2006 report from the Food and Agriculture Organization estimated that livestock were responsible for about 18% of human-caused greenhouse gases — a figure that has been criticized by the meat industry as too high and by some environmentalists as far too low"
I just googled beef and pollution and I got an article that stated the above.
Polution happens, green house effect is a reality and global warming is a reality also.
Most people think that they affect the environment only when they drive their car or when they fire up a tall stack for a furnace and such. The reality is that we had become very fussy about what we eat, especially the Western Europe and North America. We, the U.S. have the highest numbers in beef consumption in all world -275 pounds of beef/ year/ capita compared to the average of 80-100# of the world.
Comercial farming is a big polluter. Manure is one of the biggest polluters.
I think the above numbers in the excerpt are as high if not higher than those attributed to the oil companies but I might be wrong!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 8, 2015 17:55:44 GMT -5
all i have seen is data. data that shows that we are warming. we can all argue about the reasons, and the future. that is fine. argue away. but please, let's not argue about the data. tyia. Yes, but let's see all the data...not just the cherry-picked and/or manipulated UN bullshit i think where i part ways with climate change deniers is that they are not interested in ANY data: bullshit or no.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Sept 8, 2015 23:16:17 GMT -5
Easy fix- don't talk to them. If only the media could figure that out.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 8, 2015 23:49:41 GMT -5
Manure is one of the biggest polluters Fertilizers. Yes I spread a lot here.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 9, 2015 0:05:45 GMT -5
The weather service here in Phoenix, July was not all that hot, (yea it was hot but did not break a record for the hottest July) So the way they manipulated it was to use the temperature at like 1:00 in the morning, it broke the record, Phoenix is a growing heat island, we keep adding concrete and asphalt. it holds the heat, But it was not hotter during the day, it is global warming at 1:00 in the morning. That reminds me about the Polish space program, they were going to land an astronaut on the Sun, When asked how would they deal with the heat, They would land at night. I bet I pay for that one.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 9, 2015 0:25:12 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2015 10:36:58 GMT -5
The weather service here in Phoenix, July was not all that hot, (yea it was hot but did not break a record for the hottest July) So the way they manipulated it was to use the temperature at like 1:00 in the morning, it broke the record, Phoenix is a growing heat island, we keep adding concrete and asphalt. it holds the heat, But it was not hotter during the day, it is global warming at 1:00 in the morning. That reminds me about the Polish space program, they were going to land an astronaut on the Sun, When asked how would they deal with the heat, They would land at night. I bet I pay for that one. arguments about weather are irrelevant to the discussion.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 9, 2015 12:45:46 GMT -5
If you can come up with a report from a Oil Co. saying that global warming is caused by Carbon emissions from man, then You Have me. on your side. When the first medical reports came out claiming smoking was bad for you, cigarette companies hired their own research firms to prove that not only did smoking not hurt you, it gave you energy and helped you lose weight. I can remember when the tobacco companies finally came clean in public that yes, cigarettes may not be that good for you - but it's your right to smoke them. I think that was in the late seventies, early 80s? Based on that experience, I would expect Big Oil to admit that use of the product has a harmful impact on the environment in about 100 years.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2015 13:01:20 GMT -5
If you can come up with a report from a Oil Co. saying that global warming is caused by Carbon emissions from man, then You Have me. on your side. When the first medical reports came out claiming smoking was bad for you, cigarette companies hired their own research firms to prove that not only did smoking not hurt you, it gave you energy and helped you lose weight. I can remember when the tobacco companies finally came clean in public that yes, cigarettes may not be that good for you - but it's your right to smoke them. I think that was in the late seventies, early 80s? Based on that experience, I would expect Big Oil to admit that use of the product has a harmful impact on the environment in about 100 years. this is a brilliant reply, happy- a GREAT counterexample. they actually paid DOCTORS to deliver their "studies". and it worked. people actually thought smoking was at worst, benign, for many many years. SOME STILL DO. at best, they thought cigarettes were HEALTHY. i don't think anyone thinks that anymore.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Sept 9, 2015 16:42:14 GMT -5
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