Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 2, 2015 8:46:23 GMT -5
Since nothing quickens YMAM blood quite like a FOX editorial: Fortunately, Wikipedia is around to tell us what all xese pronouns mean. So, what say you men, women, trans-bi-asexual-non-gender-conforming-binary-anthropods, and snow leopards? Are you familiar with the new gender-neutral pronouns? Do you respect people's preferred choice of exotic pronoun? Do you intend to? Do you intend to ask people what their preferred pronoun is during introductions (as the "Office for Diversity and Inclusion" recommends) to avoid inadvertently offending non-gender-conforming individuals?Personally I prefer the pronoun "brotha", and "brotha's" for the possessive. Please respect my preferences by making the appropriate substitutions in your writings. For example, "I like Virgil because brotha hates snow leopards. Brotha's mission is noble." Otherwise I might feel excluded, and what a cruel fate that would be.
|
|
The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Posts: 8,717
Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
|
Post by The Captain on Sept 2, 2015 8:57:31 GMT -5
Why do you think I use "peeps" so often? Seriously, for the most part I don't get it. I try to be sensitive, but, you're either born with boy bits or girl bits. Through thousands of years of human history that obvious physical manifestation is how we have primarily addressed people. Someone who doesn't know you isn't going to be able to discern that you may not identify with how you appear. It's really not fair to strangers to get bent out of shape because your appearance doesn't match with how you think you should be. Now if you identify as male, dress as a male, and consistently present yourself as a male, then it's rude for those who interact with you on a consistent basis to identify you differently (and likewise for presenting as female). I can't even remember my own cell number at times, you think I'm gonna be able to remember which pronoun to switch to for someone I just met? Besides, again - we focus far too much on labels instead of learning about the individual. Isn't it better to find out about the person and forget the label?
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Sept 2, 2015 8:58:00 GMT -5
Here is a place where I can use the new phrase that I just learned off this board.
This is "boinked up". That's neutral right?
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Sept 2, 2015 9:13:09 GMT -5
Although I wouldn't go nearly as far as the quoted article in the OP, I do wish there was a good English gender-neutral pronoun. Most of my daily job involves writing, and coming up with ways to succinctly say something without adding the clunkiness of multiple "his or her"s and "he or she"s can be challenging. Other languages manage this much better.
New gender pronouns seem unlikely to take hold in our lifetimes, so I wouldn't worry too much.
|
|
bean29
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 9,947
|
Post by bean29 on Sept 2, 2015 9:46:45 GMT -5
We pronounce our daughter's name in the greek way. It is a pet peeve of hers that people rarely pronounce it correctly. Teachers at her HS and the Principal took to using a nickname b/c they found it easier than remembering to pronounce her name with a foreign pronunciation. Simply telling someone your name and preferred pronoun is not going to result in people remembering what your choice is.
I grew up in a house where my Dad occasionally called me by my Sister's name. I have done it myself on occasion. People should get over themselves and just go with the flow. It would make life so much easier.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,172
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2015 10:03:01 GMT -5
when this confronts me, i will adapt. until then, i am going to ignore it.
edit: when i say IGNORE, i mean that. openly mocking it, like FOX does in post 1 is not particularly helpful.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 2, 2015 11:32:09 GMT -5
I came across these pronouns just once before spotting this article. It sounds as though they're just as foreign to everyone else here. Let us all be thankful for that. The grand irony is that a substitute like "xe", pronounced "zee", will most often fit into a sentence after an infinitive, e.g. "I think xe's great.", which when spoken will undoubtedly be interpreted as "I thinks he's great." Hence not only is your esoteric pronoun tongue-twisted out of existence, your listeners will also start to question whether you can conjugate verbs correctly. Don't get me started on the nuclear-strength idiocy that is preemptively asking people what their gender pronoun is. I refuse to believe that even Ms. Braquet has put that one into actual practice.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,172
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2015 11:39:34 GMT -5
I came across these pronouns just once before spotting this article. It sounds as though they're just as foreign to everyone else here. Let us all be thankful for that. The grand irony is that a substitute like "xe", pronounced "zee", will most often fit into a sentence after an infinitive, e.g. "I think xe's great.", which when spoken will undoubtedly be interpreted as "I thinks he's great." Hence not only is your esoteric pronoun tongue-twisted out of existence, your listeners will also start to question whether you can conjugate verbs correctly. Don't get me started on the nuclear-strength idiocy that is preemptively asking people what their gender pronoun is. I refuse to believe that even Ms. Braquet has put that one into actual practice. gender politics started in the early 90's. this is a continuation of the trend. it won't stop, Virgil. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism
|
|
The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Posts: 8,717
Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
|
Post by The Captain on Sept 2, 2015 12:46:16 GMT -5
Well damn! I missed the first and second waves. Third doesn't sound all the interesting....
|
|
❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,857
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
|
Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Sept 3, 2015 12:55:43 GMT -5
Unless someone tells me otherwise, I'll just assume that most people want to be called by the name which they gave me when they introduced themselves. Which, of course, assumes that I will remember their names. Good luck with that.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,363
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 3, 2015 12:56:55 GMT -5
I prefer people call me "the man"
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,335
|
Post by swamp on Sept 3, 2015 13:01:58 GMT -5
Unless someone tells me otherwise, I'll just assume that most people want to be called by the name which they gave me when they introduced themselves. Which, of course, assumes that I will remember their names. Good luck with that.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,868
|
Post by zibazinski on Sept 3, 2015 13:12:36 GMT -5
I prefer the royal "we."
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 8, 2024 20:53:04 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 13:12:55 GMT -5
Why do you think I use "peeps" so often? Besides, again - we focus far too much on labels instead of learning about the individual. Isn't it better to find out about the person and forget the label? I've been labeled as a lower caliber type person ! I think I pointed out something bad about a politician (That still hasn't happened yet) And yes, it is better to find out about the person over a longer term than jumping to a hasty conclusion.
|
|
mroped
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 17:36:56 GMT -5
Posts: 3,453
|
Post by mroped on Sept 3, 2015 13:15:59 GMT -5
Some of these college students should be told about the "chain of command" and how it works! In the mean time I will address any of them with a "he/she" depending on appearance or request. If asked otherwise, I'll give them a few pounds of sand.
|
|
mroped
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 17:36:56 GMT -5
Posts: 3,453
|
Post by mroped on Sept 3, 2015 13:19:03 GMT -5
If Your Majesty so wishes!( and bow to the floor before exiting moving backwards.)
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,868
|
Post by zibazinski on Sept 3, 2015 13:21:24 GMT -5
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 3, 2015 16:13:52 GMT -5
I wonder how one handles gender-locked nouns, e.g. "father", "heiress", etc. The convention for thousands of years has been to apply the male term to any mixed group. "What do you guys want to do tonight?", "Toronto's mailmen are always friendly.", "She's worked with classically trained actors." But this is regrettably patriarchal (read: simple and concise), hence this convention will have to be abandoned too. "What do you guys and gals want to do tonight?" (except "gals" might be considered patronizing, as would "girls", hence the safest bet would be "What do you ladies and gentlemen want to do tonight?". "Toronto's mailpersons (mailpeople?) are always friendly." But then "mailpersons" would probably be mistaken for "male persons", hence again we safely default to "Toronto's postal employees are always friendly." "She's worked with classically trained actors and actresses." Except that "she" should be "xe" to avoid gender implications, and putting 'actors' before 'actresses' still seems a bit paternalistic, so let's go with: "Xe's worked with classically trained actresses and actors." But wait! What about all the people we've just excluded by using gender-conforming nouns? "What do you people want to do tonight?" is our third attempt. The trouble is that "you people" is nearly always used in an exclusionary sense. Hence perhaps "What do you individuals want to do tonight?" "Toronto's postal employees are always friendly." has already been suitably sanitized. "Xe's worked with classically trained acting professionals." brings us home. Now all we need to do is gender sanitize all our cultural literature and we'll have taken the first of many, many steps towards a more inclusive post-genderist society. What beast was't, then, That made you break this enterprise to me? When you durst do it, then you were a non-gender-specific human; And, to be more than what you were, you would Be so much more the non-gender-specific human.
What, xyr, not yet at rest? The non-gender-specific monarch's a-bed: Xe hath been in unusual pleasure, and Sent forth great largess to your offices. This diamond xe greets your emotionally-monogamous life partner withal, By the name of most kind individual with professional hosting duties; and shut up In measureless content. It's Macbeth for the 21st Century!
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 3, 2015 16:21:13 GMT -5
I think I'll just use "Hey you." And I guess I don't care what anybody calls me. "Hey you" is fine there, too. I'm not learning about millimeters and I'm not learning new pronouns. That's just that.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,546
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2015 16:22:15 GMT -5
I think I'll just use "Hey you." And I guess I don't care what anybody calls me. "Hey you" is fine there, too. I'm not learning about millimeters and I'm not learning new pronouns. That's just that. 'Pssst' and 'Ahem' work too.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,868
|
Post by zibazinski on Sept 3, 2015 17:37:34 GMT -5
Actresses don't want to be called actresses now. They want to be called actors.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Sept 3, 2015 18:04:47 GMT -5
I am 100% done with 2015.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,546
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2015 18:16:18 GMT -5
I am 100% done with 2015. Really. It's sooooo 2014.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Sept 3, 2015 18:17:33 GMT -5
I am 100% done with 2015. Really. It's sooooo 2014. Ahhh, the good old days.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,546
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2015 18:28:57 GMT -5
Really. It's sooooo 2014. Ahhh, the good old days.
|
|
Malarky
Junior Associate
Truth and snark are equal opportunity here.
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 21:00:51 GMT -5
Posts: 5,313
|
Post by Malarky on Sept 3, 2015 18:39:10 GMT -5
Call me racist. Call me bigoted. Whatever. I'm not playing. I'm sorry you have body dismorphia. I'm sorry you aren't comfortable in your own skin. I married man. I'm a female. I gave birth to a boy and a girl. I couldn't give a rats ass who you sleep with. If my kids turn out to be gay, that's fine. I'm not making up new words to suit you. I don't want your penis in my bathroom. I'm not walking on eggshells in case I might offend you. Suck it up Buttercup. It aint all about you. Those in the very small minority should be accommodated in the sense of having their own bathroom, but don't make the majority uncomfortable by saying you "deserve" to be in mine. Don't I "deserve" to be comfortable as well?
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,417
Member is Online
|
Post by thyme4change on Sept 3, 2015 18:49:22 GMT -5
I am on-board. I am not sure ze or xe is the perfect 'sound' but I love the concept so much, I don't care. It needs to be introduced when talking about no one specific, that way it is truly what it is meant to be - a gender neutral statement. I don't think we have to determine what each and every person should use, just use it for general statements, and eventually it may take over he and she.
While we are at it - I think we should do away with "Mrs." We don't call men "Master" until they are married and then change it to "Mister." It is no one's business if I am married or not. I am an adult and should have an adult title no matter what my status, just like men do. Just Mr. and Ms.
I am sick of footing around with he and she. I use "they" a lot, and it bothers me because I know "they" is plural, and there is no substitute in singular (except he or she, which is just stupid.)
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 3, 2015 19:18:05 GMT -5
Don't I "deserve" to be comfortable as well? Nope. It sounds to me like somebody needs gender pronoun sensitivity training. Xe just hasn't got with the program.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 3, 2015 19:20:00 GMT -5
I am on-board. I am not sure ze or xe is the perfect 'sound' but I love the concept so much, I don't care. It needs to be introduced when talking about no one specific, that way it is truly what it is meant to be - a gender neutral statement. I don't think we have to determine what each and every person should use, just use it for general statements, and eventually it may take over he and she. While we are at it - I think we should do away with "Mrs." We don't call men "Master" until they are married and then change it to "Mister." It is no one's business if I am married or not. I am an adult and should have an adult title no matter what my status, just like men do. Just Mr. and Ms. I am sick of footing around with he and she. I use "they" a lot, and it bothers me because I know "they" is plural, and there is no substitute in singular (except he or she, which is just stupid.) Assuming you're not being sarcastic, I dare you to use the "new" gender-neutral pronouns in all your posts for a week.
|
|
Malarky
Junior Associate
Truth and snark are equal opportunity here.
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 21:00:51 GMT -5
Posts: 5,313
|
Post by Malarky on Sept 3, 2015 19:21:53 GMT -5
Don't I "deserve" to be comfortable as well? Nope. It sounds to me like somebody needs gender pronoun sensitivity training. Xe just hasn't got with the program. Sorry.Not.Sorry. Taking my marbles and going home until sanity prevails again. I'm OK if you want/need to be different. I'm not OK if your going to try to pee in my bathroom and change my beloved language.
|
|