New Jersey teacher loves breakfast

[Value Buy]

Late for school 100 times, never was talked to and reprimanded, and has tenure so is there til he retires.

www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/teacher-late-to-work-over-100-times-blames-it-on-breakfast/vi-BBmf364

Maybe Christie should stay in Jersey and work on reforming the schools.

[Artemis Windsong]

The movie Looking for Superman goes into the problems with schools.  I was disappointed that the public is paying teachers who do not teach the students.  Mostly inner city, low income areas. 

A lot of charter schools were started in these areas by families.

It's a country wide problem.

[Tennesseer]

I sat in on and heard an employee's appeal for his termination due to too many times late for work.,  He told us the last occurrence was not his fault but his wife's fault.  They had had a verbal argument as he was leaving for work.  As he was walking out the front door, his wife was throwing his clothes out of a second floor window.  

He told us he had to go back into his house and spit in his wife's face.  So it was his wife's fault and not his for being tardy.

Termination upheld.

[Shooby]

Ridiculous.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 29, 2015 20:33:26 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Late for school 100 times, never was talked to and reprimanded, and has tenure so is there til he retires.

www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/teacher-late-to-work-over-100-times-blames-it-on-breakfast/vi-BBmf364

Maybe Christie should stay in Jersey and work on reforming the schools.

In Illinois, under their truancy laws, parents of a student that misses just 9 days of school could be fined or imprisoned.  You might say that this is late, not absent.  Well, a student that is 5 minutes late is counted as missing half a day under the law.  In fact, missing just 90 minutes of school could end up counting as missing the 9 days. It's totally absurd.  Yet Illinois has HUNDREDS of teachers just like this dweeb.  www.illinoispolicy.org/did-your-child-miss-90-minutes-of-school-this-year-illinois-truancy-law-could-put-you-in-jail/

[Shooby]

I am on our local School Board. I stand in support of Good teachers of which we have many. However, if this teacher was in my district, I would do everything I could to fire his arse.

[Deleted]

Tenured teachers don't have to be there forever. It just requires effort on behalf of the administration. My principal while I was teaching opened proceedings to eject a tenured teacher... It required remediation attempts first. Efforts to address issues and provide support and opportunities to improve. But if they don't, and the process is documented, they certainly can be fired. 

In the case of the teacher I knew, remediation, and a change of placement, actually addressed the issues and to my knowledge she did not need to be fired. 

[Shooby]

It isn't that difficult to fire bad teachers. But, Admin has to put in the work of demonstrating that they have enacted improvement plans, remediation and so forth. Sounds like Lazy Admin dropped the ball and didnt' lay the groundwork. But, I mean, everywhere I have ever worked, if you were late like 3x you would be fired. And the Admin should have had the sense to PUT that language into their Teachers' contracts when they negotiated new contracts.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 29, 2015 20:33:26 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Late for school 100 times, never was talked to and reprimanded, and has tenure so is there til he retires.

www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/teacher-late-to-work-over-100-times-blames-it-on-breakfast/vi-BBmf364

Maybe Christie should stay in Jersey and work on reforming the schools.

seeing that he is running 11th out of 17, he has little choice, other than quitting altogether.

[fairlycrazy23]

Not sure if this is the same today, and I think this is for New York


How to Fire an Incompetent Teacher

[joemilitary]

first of all, you can make $90,000 a year teaching elementary school?!?!?

second, it seems the school did not follow the procedures in place and waited too long to nip the problem in the butt early on.

[Value Buy]

Aug 30, 2015 19:06:27 GMT -5 joemilitary said:

first of all, you can make $90,000 a year teaching elementary school?!?!?

second, it seems the school did not follow the procedures in place and waited too long to nip the problem in the butt early on.

Probably can in some of the big city areas, after throwing in Master's degree, tenure and health and pension.
Some of the Principals would be pushing well over $100,000.

The head of our school district, one high school, two middle schools, and five elementary is pushing $150,000 and talking school population of under 8,000

[joemilitary]

Aug 30, 2015 19:16:31 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Aug 30, 2015 19:06:27 GMT -5 joemilitary said:

first of all, you can make $90,000 a year teaching elementary school?!?!?

second, it seems the school did not follow the procedures in place and waited too long to nip the problem in the butt early on.

Probably can in some of the big city areas, after throwing in Master's degree, tenure and health and pension.
Some of the Principals would be pushing well over $100,000.

The head of our school district, one high school, two middle schools, and five elementary is pushing $150,000 and talking school population of under 8,000

I'm confused how you can put health and pension in a salary number?

I can understand for principals, etc....but teaching elementary school?

[zibazinski]

Because all employers add in what employees cost them in total when discussing salary costs.

[joemilitary]

That's interesting....I always thought when you got a job offer it was for a certain salary plus benefits, so I figured that's what they were quoting in the story.......but in that case $90 K makes more sense now ........so do they include their SS contributions too when quoting salary too?

[gooddecisions]

From what I could tell, $90k is his salary. That is not the total cost to the employer. $90k is not unusual at all for New Jersey. Teachers don't get paid as badly as people think- at least not once they have been in the game awhile.

[zibazinski]

If they've got a union they're paid and protected same as any other union employee. I could have made triple what I made in Florida. I'd have had to live up north to do it. Wasn't worth it

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 30, 2015 19:06:27 GMT -5 joemilitary said:

first of all, you can make $90,000 a year teaching elementary school?!?!?

second, it seems the school did not follow the procedures in place and waited too long to nip the problem in the butt early on.

The myth of the underpaid school teacher is an oldie, but a goodie. They are paid extremely well compared to the private sector, they have near absolute job security, and they retire young to a taxpayer guaranteed defined benefit pension that they contribute little or nothing to.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Gov Walker is fond of talking "big and bold" reforms- but honestly, he proposed only minor, relatively limited, minimal reforms-- and the teacher's union still freaked out. Public education is a fraud- it runs like a crime syndicate complete with racketeering and extortion.

[Deleted]

You really can't take one teacher making 90k and generalize that... Most make much less, more like half...  And we certainly paid in to our retirement. 

[djAdvocate]

Aug 31, 2015 10:01:01 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Gov Walker is fond of talking "big and bold" reforms- but honestly, he proposed only minor, relatively limited, minimal reforms-- and the teacher's union still freaked out. Public education is a fraud- it runs like a crime syndicate complete with racketeering and extortion.

so does government and industry.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 31, 2015 10:08:55 GMT -5 oped said:

You really can't take one teacher making 90k and generalize that... Most make much less, more like half...  And we certainly paid in to our retirement. 

Some do. Most do not. I'm certain if you have personal experience with it, you are familiar with pick ups?  In IL, for example, teachers pay just 9.4% of their pay to their pension, however in 2/3rds of districts, this is "picked up"- or paid by the district. 

www.illinoispolicy.org/understanding_teacher_pension_pick_ups/

Even with the contributions some teachers make, we are not talking about any relationship between the contribution and the benefit as these are defined benefit pensions.  They are not earned, but guaranteed. And the retirement age in many states is VERY young. In Illinois, teachers can retire with full benefits at age 55.  (I am aware that teachers forgo Social Security benefits- but they also forgo the associated payroll taxes, and has been pointed out- often pay little or nothing into their retirement).

This is an issue which, in Illinois at least, I have spent a great deal of time studying, and I'm intimately familiar with the facts vs. the NEA propaganda.  I'm also immune to propaganda from the likes of Walker- yes, he's done some things- which is better than nothing, but "big and bold" will be when someone finally comes out and says: ENOUGH! and dismantles the entire government run school scheme which has been a complete and total failure.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

And you're right- you cannot take a $90K teacher and say that's what teachers make. That teacher wouldn't even come close to making the top 100 in Illinois:

www.championnews.net/?p=12774

These Top 100 Salaries Do Not Include Massive Amounts of Fringe Benefits.

Add about $48,000 each for state pension contribution (30% of salary) and at least $7,500/yr health insurance benefits. Then include 15 days sick leave payable at retirement if not used, 2 personal days/yr and up to $300,000 payment to the Teachers Retirement System by the local school district if they decide to take early retirement (see “Anatomy of a Teachers Contract” here).

And what is the value of a guaranteed $100,000 job (called “Tenure”) for as long as you want it?

$100,000 Teacher Salaries By Subject Fiscal Year Ending June 30, 2011 

2011 High Salary

Greater $100K 2011

Art
179,660

213

Automotive Repair
175,122

24

Cabinet maker
146,295

21

Clothing/Apparel
131,620

8

Drama
179,660

30

Drive Ed
166,658

143

Elementary Education
161,104

1006

English
174,300

545

Foodservice
135,997

17

French
176,600

55

Latin
135,912

10

Librarians
155,546

53

Music
182,686

284

Nurse
136,166

35

Phys Ed
203,154

760

Radio and TV Broadcasting
154,413

15


Nineteen (19) of the Top 100 teachers retired with pensions in excess of $100,000.

Should public employees who average a mere 32 years of 9 month work retire at an average age of 57 with an average payout of $3.7 million? On average, these people will receive their entire contribution back in less than 20 months.

No one in their right mind thinks this kind of public payout is fair, reasonable or guaranteed by the constitution.

Here’s the list:

[Deleted]

We did not forgo SS. ... I don't think every state can be compared to Illinois? ... I know PA is probably in the middle somewhere... You'll have to get @southernsusana to talk about the bottom I'm guessing... 


National average teaching salaries are in the 40s range. 

Oh, and one reason retirement is younger is because if you have one of those teachers who sticks it out 30 years to make that kind of salary... It's better to eject them and get 2 in their place...

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 31, 2015 13:21:22 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

Aug 31, 2015 9:59:19 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

The myth of the underpaid school teacher is an oldie, but a goodie. They are paid extremely well compared to the private sector, they have near absolute job security, and they retire young to a taxpayer guaranteed defined benefit pension that they contribute little or nothing to.

I have a master's degree with the maximum experience in one of the best paid districts in Alabama. I earn $61,000. I pay 7.5% of my salary toward my pension, which is equal to 2% X the average of my best 3 years out of my last 10. I can retire at age 60 with any service or at any age with 25 years. I also pay social security just like the rest of you.

The insurance is good but not free.  Insurance after retirement is based on age and years worked. Many teachers do not retire early because they can't afford the insurance.

At least revise the total months "worked" if you want to include summer as paid time off.  School last year started back on July 31 for teachers.  This year it was August 3.  So that's ten months, not nine.

Like other professionals, I spend time outside of school hours to do my job.  It is a significant amount of time since I am an English teacher. 

I do not have absolute job security.  If I screw up, I can be fired.  It isn't that difficult if there is a paper trail, which a good administrator would create.  My husband was a manager in a major corporation.  They, too, had to create a paper trail of bad reviews that the employee signed.  The truth is that very few people are simply fired out of nowhere.  There is too much of a threat of lawsuits.  Like others, I can also be the victim of a "reduction of force."

I worry about where the next generation of teachers will come from because the job gets so little respect.

$61K a year in Alabama is pretty good, I imagine?  I realize not every state is as screwed up as Illinois. Still, government ought to simply be OUT of the education business. There's simply too big a conflict of interest.

And I don't know ANYONE that gets anything like 2 months vacation every year. Six weeks is about the most I've ever heard about- and the idea of taking it all at once in the summer is a non-starter.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Oh, and there's not going to be a next generation of teachers.  Odds are pretty good the whole thing falls apart within 10 to 20 years.

[fishy999]

Aug 31, 2015 15:24:39 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Oh, and there's not going to be a next generation of teachers.  Odds are pretty good the whole thing falls apart within 10 to 20 years.

Yep- home schooling and religious indoctrination are ready to take over.  What a country we will be then 

Meanwhile countries with smart people are going to turn us into a third world shithole- Jebus take me to church

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 31, 2015 22:09:52 GMT -5 fishy999 said:

Aug 31, 2015 15:24:39 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Oh, and there's not going to be a next generation of teachers.  Odds are pretty good the whole thing falls apart within 10 to 20 years.

Yep- home schooling and religious indoctrination are ready to take over.  What a country we will be then 

Meanwhile countries with smart people are going to turn us into a third world shithole- Jebus take me to church

America's decline began with one-size-fits-all, government run indoctrination centers.  We actually did pretty well with homeschooling and "religious indoctrination" before the Prussian model and state indoctrination. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 31, 2015 19:45:58 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

Aug 31, 2015 15:22:14 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

$61K a year in Alabama is pretty good, I imagine?  I realize not every state is as screwed up as Illinois. Still, government ought to simply be OUT of the education business. There's simply too big a conflict of interest.

And I don't know ANYONE that gets anything like 2 months vacation every year. Six weeks is about the most I've ever heard about- and the idea of taking it all at once in the summer is a non-starter.

Define "pretty good."  For Alabama (not the U.S.), I live in a fairly HCOL area.  I certainly don't live in poverty, but I'd only be solidly middle class at about $90,000(I'm figuring we haven't topped out but earn more like $45,000 each) if I was married to a fellow teacher.  I'm at the top of the chart, remember, in terms of experience and somewhat in education.  There are higher rungs, but we pay for them ourselves.  I was older when I really got my public school job.

Ah, so you make $61K annually, but you got a free ride on the Master's degree? That does not come out to $61K a year then, strictly speaking.

For the umpteenth time, I don't get a 2 months vacation.  I am unemployed for two months.  I am paid strictly on a per diem schedule.  If I miss a day's work without leave to cover it, they dock me 1/192 or however many days I am scheduled to work.  They don't dock me 1/20 or however many working days are in the month.  They take my salary and prorate it over 12 months.  If anyone was paying interest, which they aren't, the school district could actually make money from the float between when I work and when I get paid for working. 

You are parsing the language here.  You earn $61K annually.  1/192 Most people are "scheduled to work 292 so you're kinda making my point.  Granted, you are more or less "forced" to take time off at the same time each year-- but I didn't even get into what comprises a "school year".  I forgot that in addition to being scheduled to work 192-- you also get all the various weekends, breaks, and holidays-- I mean, you said it yourself 192.  And btw-- I know school teachers, that because of the whole 192 thing, actually have other irons in the fire with all that time off-- I know one in particular that flips a house every year for an additional $15K to $40K; and another who is an author that leverages that time off, and his knowledge of, and connections within the school system to sell books to kids.  If I said his name, anyone with kids would recognize him. We should all be so fortunate as to be scheduled to work 192 days.

I started this school (2015-2016) on August 3.  I will be paid for 2015-2016 beginning on Sept. 30.  This year's August 31 paycheck was earned for the 2014-2015.  If I had retired, I would still get my August 31 paycheck because I earned it last year.  If I am a new teacher, I work two months without a paycheck and get paid Sept. 30.  You are a smart man, Paul.  I think you can figure out that means I don't really get a two-months paid vacation.  If I do, I work a month "for free every August."  

Again, I am smart which is why I can do the math. You're scheduled to work 192 days a year, and you get paid $61K.  Most people can do the math. In fact, most teachers can figure this out, and this and the pension are the top two reasons cited by teachers for going into the profession after all the "change the world" and "work with children" hoo ha.

You don't understand how the year and pay is structured.  I wish you could see the first-year teachers hurting because they've worked the entire month of August without getting paid.  They have rent to pay and food to buy.  It is so tough and so wrong.  They make it up, though, 30 years later when they retire and get paid for the previous year for the months of June, July, and August.   That's a long time to wait to make it up.

We all suffer the first year on the job after college.  Big whoop.  There's always a delay in getting paid when you start any job.  What there usually is not is a free Master's degree and an automatic raise for doing it-- and 173 days free to work on it.

But maybe it's different in Illinois.  Maybe they get paid over 9 months and go without salary for 3.  Maybe they get paid TWICE for August.

I don't.

Bottom line is this- you think it's fair, and you like the set up, you would not do it.  Maybe you can find someone here that gushes over teachers and all you do- I don't.  And I never will.  The government school experiment has been one of the worst, most damaging things to ever afflict our country. It has ruined countless lives, and is a huge part of the reason for the decline of America.  Some would argue- by design.  In many, if not the majority of states, public school teacher's unions are a huge chunk of the reason the states are being bankrupted.  In fact, to the extent that new / first-year teachers do suffer-- a lot of that is due to the broken pension system, and the greed and selfishness of the teachers gone before whose attitude is, "Screw you. I got mine."

If you have not read Mark Levin's book- and I understand you may not have because it's brand new- "Plunder and Deceit" which is about the whole "Screw you, I got mine" attitude that is destroying the country-- it's worth a read.  It is not purely, or even mostly about education-- that's just one small piece of the puzzle.