The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 13, 2015 15:48:47 GMT -5
Who's done one recently? Hints, tips, suggestions?
DH's ready to start (really surprised he was able to wait this long). I'm kinda neutral on the whole thing so I think he'll be making most of the design/material choices. I'm only really interested in the types of countertops. Oh, and an undermount sink - gotta have that.
We've done this twice before, although this will be by far the most extensive (basically a gut job and moving a wall). I'm kinda dreading it so come'on guys, help me get into it.
We are going to a home improvement expo tomorrow afternoon and have an appointment with a private showroom tomorrow morning.
*Groan*.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Feb 13, 2015 15:50:56 GMT -5
Good Luck.
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lexxy703
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Post by lexxy703 on Feb 13, 2015 15:52:09 GMT -5
I love my Corian counters & sink. I also love the lazy susans I put in my previous kitchen. You'll be really happy when it is done but the actual reno sucks. Good luck!
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Feb 13, 2015 15:52:14 GMT -5
Jealous! I hate the mess but love the finished product. I just have the kitchen and one of the bathrooms left to call our house "done."
Good luck!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 13, 2015 16:10:51 GMT -5
Yeah, we did one last summer. It wasn't too bad, just countertops and backsplash but you'd be amazed as to how difficult just those 2 things made it.
We chose quartz and I had it narrowed down to 3 choices. My favorite was almost 2x the other 2, so we punted on it. I chose the backsplash and wanted to see the slab of quartz that they'd use because the 2 samples that they had of the same quartz were different. One I liked, the other not. While I was at the warehouse, I saw a slab of the quartz I REALLY liked and it turned out that I had been misquoted on the price (it wound up being $200 more, not $3500 more). Then I pulled out the floor tiles and realized that my favorite went much better with what we had on the floors. So we punted and I chose another backsplash to go with the new quartz.
When we started looking at things, we realized that we needed to find a finish carpenter to take out the appliance garage that was in the corner. To take it down, he had to take down additional cabinets too. That meant more people we needed to schedule. We were looking at a new sink and one of the things that the designer told us was that you need to look UNDER your sink to determine what fits. If you have to start moving things around, it starts to cost $$$$. We wanted to replace the sink with the same sink, but it turns out it had been discontinued and NOTHING else would fit. The sink was in an island and the island was made of finished maple. If we got another sink, we would have had to move the switch to the garbage disposal (and hire an electrician...more $$$) and if that was moved, it would have left a hole in a 3' x 4' piece of finished maple at the end of the island. So we had to find the sink, and actually was able to find one on Amazon and the only color we found it in really did work better with the quartz than our original intention.
I guess my point is that even when you think something should be simple, something really stupid can really throw a monkey wrench into the process. Needing to remove cabinets and finding a discontinued sink were our monkey wrenches. My sister just did her kitchen, and her's were different but equally frustrating.
Good luck.....and stock up on take out menus! We ate take out for a week.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 13, 2015 16:13:43 GMT -5
We renovated out to the walls. Everything from electrical and plumbing to light fixtures, counters, cabinets, flooring and appliances were replaced. Took us four years to agree on everything and six months for the reno. Go figure.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 16:19:07 GMT -5
Not really sure what you are looking for, but one thing I like (and wouldn't have thought of) in my new kitchen is that it has one skinny bottom cab for narrow/odd shaped things like cookie sheets and pizza pan. And deep drawers for pots, which is nice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 16:21:14 GMT -5
My bit of advice is to have an idea of which appliances you want and get their measurements early. Appliances fitting well is so important to the overall design of a kitchen. A friend of mine redid her kitchen and the fridge she bought didn't fit (she bought it on clearance or something). I personally love the look of a built in fridge and you have to be careful as many of today's fridges are huge and stick out very far. Oh, and my vote is for quartz countertops.
eta: cookie sheet and pot drawers are great
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 16:22:22 GMT -5
I also love my corian counters and sink. They took longer than quoted though... Cooked my first Thanksgiving for 30 without countertops... So, I guess I wouldn't recommend that
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Feb 13, 2015 21:37:25 GMT -5
It's been two years since we completed ours.
We used a local kitchen shop who designed and sold us the cabinets. They had referrals to the countertop folks but I shopped around and got a smoking hot deal with a Home Depot. Our local store has a great guy who loves to design kitchen and baths. He did quite a bit of space designing in another life and really enjoys it.
I made one mistake that I'll wind up doing over again. We also tore down a wall and I cheaped out and just patched the drywall. I went with new when we did the double-bath remodel and I'm so much happier with the results.
BTW I acted as our GC (with training wheels). I was very lucky in that all my guys; carpenter, electrician and plumber all lived within 1 mile of the house. I told them that if they didn't show up when promised I knew where to find them.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Feb 13, 2015 21:42:32 GMT -5
A few things that make life in a kitchen that much sweeter:
Cabinet genies -- they are shelves on tracks that slide in and out -- makes it far easier to reach things.
Plenty of task lighting, especially with individual or small group switches so that you can light and/or highlight certain areas.
Storage. Storage. And more storage. Seriously, you can never have too much storage in a kitchen.
Sound system. Music always makes cooking that much more fun.
If you are going the wall oven route, they now make them with swing out doors rather than drop down doors. Much easier access and fewer lower arm burns.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Feb 13, 2015 22:04:28 GMT -5
The apliances-stove, dishwasher- are generaly the same size. Refrigerators on the other hand vary in sizes and you have to have a good idea of what you want. All base cabinets are about 22" deep and the countertops are 24" wide.
Corian for countertops is more or less what everybody gets/wants. Wide range of colors, cast with backsplashes, built in sinks, etc. And the prices are not so bad, about the same as granite
There is however another option: concrete countertops. If they are done right, they are better than anything. You can buy all supplies on line and can do it yourself if you follow directions. After the concrete is set you can aply any color stain for a finish.
Oh, and the "cabinet genie" is a must! Lazy Susan on the other hand is on the way out!!!
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Feb 14, 2015 17:58:43 GMT -5
Redoing this kitchen is on the list for this year. DH wants to go back to the walls and start over. I want convenience and easy to clean. I think we won't be able to change the footprint because the floor tiles are not being made any more.
I want an appliance garage, a couple of lazy susans, slide-out drawers, double oven, besides the double sinks and disposal.
Now I need to get someone here and give me the sticker shock, then decide what I can do without.
Good luck on your remodel. I'm interested on how it goes.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 14, 2015 19:06:37 GMT -5
What is an appliance garage?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2015 23:50:39 GMT -5
Happy prose: it's like a small cabinet on the countertop for small appliances like mixers, toasters and coffee makers. Here is a link to just a few: empress
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 15, 2015 11:09:19 GMT -5
Whelp, we met with a designer yesterday. Actually the fourth (yes, fourth...sigh) so far. Fortunately we have a much better feeling about this guy and he seemed to be comfortable making suggestions and dialing into what we're looking for. He's going to draw up some preliminary estimates and schedule for his construction foreman to come out (we're moving a wall). I am absolutely terrified waiting for the quote... appliance Garage - hmm - interestering concept. The only appliances I have out are the toaster, coffee grinder and coffee pot. Everything else is on a shelf in the walk in pantry. Besides, I like my coffee pot too much to keep it locked away out of sight .
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Feb 15, 2015 20:17:04 GMT -5
We have a kitchen-aide mixer that I want hidden .......... and a food processor I want gone.
I need to make a call ........ <sigh>
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 2, 2015 14:16:25 GMT -5
OK. Update for those that expressed interest.
We met with the designer on Saturday. The last thing I remember before waking up in my bed was him putting the quote sheet in front of me.
I mean seriously, I thought I was ready for this. I've done my homework yadda yadda yadda.
DH really wants to do this in a certain way. I want DH to be happy, but...
The quote is for about 25% of the homes' value. We will never recover that (DH disagrees - he thinks the area can bear it). I know it's about more than ROI, but gaahh!
This is for a better than average (and yes we're moving a wall, re-doing all electric, moving plumbing, putting in cabinet genies, better grade cabinets etc.) re-model. It is unlikely we will ever do anything like this again.
To throw some (gulp) numbers out there...I thought I was covered planning between $40-50K. The quote is for closer to 70k. That does not include appliances.
$70K, ...$70K, ...$70K.
I just can't wrap my head around that. Yea, we're in a nicer area now and all, but damn, that's almost another rental in my old area.
So collective YM wisdom, this is an area/zip code with which this poor southsider has no experience. If we try to cut corners on the project we will have a nicer, but basically stupidly laid out kitchen. It really doesn't flow/function now (remember DH and I both worked food service so we have some experience in this).
If we par down the household budget I could cover the difference in about a year. That would mean no vacation (again) and cutting back pretty heavily on the weekend trips. We're already pretty tight in other areas (dining out and groceries for example). We could cut charitable gifts but I don't feel right about that. DH isn't ready to talk about it yet (he thought I was high on my first estimate so this is an even bigger shock to him).
We could come up with it quicker if we cut back on retirement savings, but I'm not ready to go there.
WWYD?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 2, 2015 14:27:14 GMT -5
I would not "give" on the parts that make my life easier/more functional, i.e., the layout, the ease of use of tools and appliances. If you are giving the room a workout 2 or 3 times per day (for example, you are preparing 90% of your meals at home), you very much need to have a comfortable, intuitive, functional workspace, regardless of whether you call it a kitchen, a garage, an office or a whatever.
What I WOULD give on would be the "fit and finish" details. I liken it to buying a Mercedes vs. buying a Subaru. Yes the Mercedes is wonderful, but at the end of the day (sitting in a dark garage), they (cars) are all just metal boxes with wheels that move people around. At the end of the day (with the lights out) you can't tell if the countertops are granite or tile - or something else. So trust your gut. Do you want to come home every day and be satisfied working in a happy space, or do you want to come home every day and look at the kitchen and think, "darn, I shoulda . . . " ?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 2, 2015 14:38:08 GMT -5
Another thing to consider: who says you have to roll with this proposal/estimate the way it is? Consider that what you now have is just the "first look."
Now that you actually have something as a basis to go on, you can roll up your sleeves and get to work. Can you give the bid to another contractor (or two) and ask if they can beat it? Can you do some things yourself to reduce the costs (i.e., gather up your family and friends and do the demolition yourselves?). Can you take any time in this process to hunt down your own finishes (countertops, appliances, hardware) and buy them directly? Can you paint the room yourself and skip the designer's painting fees? How much sweat equity (time/skill/energy) do you personally have to put into this to get it the way you want?
Good luck whatever you decide
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snapdragon
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Post by snapdragon on Mar 2, 2015 14:39:58 GMT -5
I would keep looking for other options. There is work that you have to do, but some of the "overall look" could be changed to other materials. Or, possibly check into other companies and keep interviewing.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 2, 2015 14:40:53 GMT -5
Captain,
I thought your husband did some kind of home repair. Is he going to do any of the work himself?
Did they break it down in terms of floor/cabinets/countertop/trim/paint etc? Can you share that and the approximate room dimensions with us? It might be better to guestimate if it is reasonable. Also what type of cabinets are you getting custom/stock/raised panel/type of wood/finish etc. What is the floor material?
You have to be careful cutting corners, you are only going to do this 1x, so it is important you get it right. You may need to spend the extra $$. DH and I built our house 10 years ago. We just finished the exposed basement about 1 1/2 years ago and we have yet to build a deck/patio, but I have a few changes I would really like in the house. DH recently commented to me that if we change anything we will never recoup the $$ so we have to be very careful (his comment was inclusive of the deck/patio he wants).
I am not quite where I would like to be with retirement savings, so I am forcing myself to let go of most of the ideas I have to change things around.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Mar 2, 2015 14:41:04 GMT -5
write it off.
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Mar 2, 2015 15:11:59 GMT -5
I paid close to $50,000 for my kitchen-gutted, all new-over 10 years ago.
My rationale was that I'm going to be here for a long time and I don't want to walk into that space every morning and wish I hadn't cheaped out.
And I aimed for "timeless' over "trendy."
My one regret is tile floor over hardwood. I may yet change that.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 2, 2015 16:08:52 GMT -5
Captain,
I thought your husband did some kind of home repair. Is he going to do any of the work himself?
Did they break it down in terms of floor/cabinets/countertop/trim/paint etc? Can you share that and the approximate room dimensions with us? It might be better to guestimate if it is reasonable. Also what type of cabinets are you getting custom/stock/raised panel/type of wood/finish etc. What is the floor material?
You have to be careful cutting corners, you are only going to do this 1x, so it is important you get it right. You may need to spend the extra $$. DH and I built our house 10 years ago. We just finished the exposed basement about 1 1/2 years ago and we have yet to build a deck/patio, but I have a few changes I would really like in the house. DH recently commented to me that if we change anything we will never recoup the $$ so we have to be very careful (his comment was inclusive of the deck/patio he wants).
I am not quite where I would like to be with retirement savings, so I am forcing myself to let go of most of the ideas I have to change things around.
The room will be about 18X13 (we're stealing three feet from the dining room to make space for the island). It's basically what I call a broken U (doorway at the curve of the U) with an island in the middle. The cabinets are around $22k. Raised panel, dovetailed drawers solid wood (cherry or quarter sawn oak) better than stock grade light or no stain. This is one area where I was way off I thought 14K would cover it. No, they are not what I call furniture quality, but I do want sturdy, solid cabinets. The pull out drawers added a lot more cost than I anticipated. That's another area I don't want to compromise on as I think it will be important as we get older. Floors are specked out at maple right now. Labor is about 20K, misc materials another 10K including floors, a new window (moving walls, load bearing beam (we're opening up a pass-through area) tile backsplash, take out a full window and build up a knee wall and put in a smaller window (for more cabinet space). Putting in a 10ft (not a typo) island with a raised end/eating area at one end and a separate prep sink at the other end. Undercabinet and task lightening. Quartz countertops. Yes, I could save about 3-4K going cheaper on the countertops but quartz is another hill I decided to die on. Yea, it's a REALLY nice plan. Like (if you know the area) Barrington, Oakbrook, or Naperville nice. I just gotta wrap my head around it being The Captain nice. DH and I both work full time. If DH tried to do any of the work it would draw out the timemyhouseistornup!!! timeline and I would probably go over the edge. I know myself well enough to know how much stress I can handle, and a partial DIY project isn't within my capacity right now. DH is very handy, but the man needs to sleep sometime. As far as retirement - I think we're in good shape there and we have $55K saved for DD's college (she's 12). She just aged out of daycare and I was planning on amping up the college savings (she will not qualify for any need based aid). I'm 48, DH is 46. We're not planning on moving anytime soon. Projected timeline is 6 weeks. I know part of what we're paying for is experience and a turnkey operation. Like I said, it's just a different zip code than what I'm used to and I need to know if it's reasonable. The quotes are at home, this is all I can remember. I'll post more later tonight or tomorrow. Thanks guys for all the advice!
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 2, 2015 16:12:26 GMT -5
Another thing to consider: who says you have to roll with this proposal/estimate the way it is? Consider that what you now have is just the "first look."
Now that you actually have something as a basis to go on, you can roll up your sleeves and get to work. Can you give the bid to another contractor (or two) and ask if they can beat it? Can you do some things yourself to reduce the costs (i.e., gather up your family and friends and do the demolition yourselves?). Can you take any time in this process to hunt down your own finishes (countertops, appliances, hardware) and buy them directly? Can you paint the room yourself and skip the designer's painting fees? How much sweat equity (time/skill/energy) do you personally have to put into this to get it the way you want?
Good luck whatever you decide Honestly, almost none. I work 50+ hours a week and have a 15+ hour commute on top of that. In all fairness to DH I'm pretty wiped by the time I get home and can't expect the man to do it all by himself. Also with all the stuff going on at work I'm being honest with myself and admitting my limits. I can't take on any DIY and have my house torn up longer than is absolutely necessary. I agree we need to go back and look at details. I'm still getting over the sticker shock. .
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 2, 2015 16:16:09 GMT -5
I paid close to $50,000 for my kitchen-gutted, all new-over 10 years ago. My rationale was that I'm going to be here for a long time and I don't want to walk into that space every morning and wish I hadn't cheaped out. And I aimed for "timeless' over "trendy." My one regret is tile floor over hardwood. I may yet change that.
This is a big decision you will live with every day, so I agree with Malarky - - take your time and do it right. You don't want to kick yourself every day for "cheaping out." There ARE less-expensive alternatives, but you have to actually LIKE them .
I put hardwood floors in my kitchen too, and everyone thought I was crazy. They tried to talk me out of it. So glad I didn't listen. The kitchen is integral to the open-floor plan, and tile would have been visually disruptive to the flow of that side of the house. It is no more trouble and no more sensitive to daily use than any other floor would be. And it's warmer under your feet than tile. And springier. I've dropped things on it that haven't broken - that I'm sure would have been smashed into shards if it had met with tile. A good quality water-resistant finish is all you need.
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Timberwolf
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Post by Timberwolf on Mar 2, 2015 16:21:18 GMT -5
We did a kitchen/laundry room/bathroom remodel last year (and the year before). Like Malarky, we gutted out the whole area and started from scratch. We ran into a problem we didn't anticipate. We needed to shore up the foundation on the house to take the extra weight required for the new elements in the kitchen area (mostly). Then there is the cost of the permits- I underestimated what that would cost, it adds up quickly when you have to get building, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, and one more that I can't remember right now. As you go along on the project you see how good one thing looks (our tile floors, for example) and you say now that we have those in the cheaper cabinets we were going to install will ruin the look so we better go with the better quality ones, etc. Now multiply that by everything else you upgrade and it adds up fast. Our finished product turned out gorgeous but it was not without some things I'd do differently, also. Since we did such a big reno, I should have spent the money for an architect up front, I think we could have avoided upgrade fever and nailed down exact details right away. We went with our contractors design and realized after the fact that his design was just a little too "fuzzy" and ended up making some design decisions on the fly. As far as finishes are concerned - I love the tile floors, they are not as cold (literally in our MN winter) as I thought they would be and so easy to clean. I decided on quartz counter tops and I totally love them. They are just as care free as corian (sp?) and they have the rich look of granite. The other thing that was really hard about the remodel was the amount of time it took to complete (over a year ) but that was because we had a contractor who did almost all the work himself, kind of a one man show, but that was o.k. for us because it was less expensive that way. We live in a duplex and happen to have a "spare" kitchen & bath but I realize most folks wouldn't have that luxury. After everything is said and done, I'm glad we did the remodel, but I don't think we will ever do anything of that magnitude again. Oh, and definitely expect cost over runs, it's almost a given.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 2, 2015 16:23:55 GMT -5
Captain,
My Dad was an electrician and when they remodeled their kitchen he was going to do the electrical - he ended up deciding that he couldn't work FT and do his remodeling project justice without delaying the timeline..so he had the carpenter have his regular contractor do the electrical. They were never sorry.
Your house is not in Barrington, Oakbrook or Naperville is it? I know one of DH's college friends lives in Barrington and it is supposed to be the most la-ti-da suburb in Chicago (he is an Engineer). She always talks about how many bathrooms she has ( and therefore she has to have a cleaning lady) DH says she is lazy and she has always been lazy.
On your DD's college fund... how much are you currently funding it with? - you said you planned to step up your funding...but maybe that is a place you have some room. Once DD gets to college you will still be able to cash flow some of her expenses and she could take out a GSL to fund some of her costs.
I know you also said you don't want to reduce your retirement savings but since you are a CPA, I am figuring you are erring on the very conservative side and really could reduce your savings here and still make your goal or close to your goal.
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Willing Sniper
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Post by Willing Sniper on Mar 2, 2015 16:23:53 GMT -5
My kitchen is nice but I'm ready for a 'to the studs' gut.
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