Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 16, 2015 9:38:36 GMT -5
I got this funny call on DS. They were "looking for him." Well, I said he'd lived at the same place for ten years and worked at the same place for almost as long. No issue getting ahold of him so why call me? They acted even funnier so I said call me again and I'll hunt you down and make your life hell. Problem solved. Still no clue what it was ever about. Sometimes people are too nice to assholes on the phone. WE got a couple of those for DH's brother, 2 or 3 years back. And ditto on the 10 years in the same job and house. I handed them off to DH thinking it was an old friend or something. Nope. Turns out BIL bought out the lease on his car and then didn't make payments. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/headbang.gif) And he never clears his phone messages so vmail was full. After a couple of months of this, his wife took pity on him, since they were refinancing the house, she made arrangements to pay off the car. Apparently she'd told him when he bought the car that it was on him to deal with the payments. And it's not a money issue, it's a 'take care of your bills and stuff' issue.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 16, 2015 10:12:42 GMT -5
So knowing that my brother is a financial trainwreck and that he has filed BK, has had a car repoed, was in foreclosure for 10 years before he was finally foreclosed on, and is late with his rent you think I'm petty for not wanting to be listed as closest relative even though he has three other adult relatives (who won't speak to him) who are 500 miles closer.
Um okay.
Why did you ask the question if you were going to get angry that some people think it's not a big deal? If there was only one acceptable response to you, there's really no need to ask for opinions. I'm not angry, I'm annoyed. I don't see the purpose of Ryan's post other than to press some buttons.
I post on this board mainly to be helpful. But I come from a highly dysfunctional family and have learned over the years (especially from this board) that there are an array of ways to respond to actions and requests that are not in my best interest.
If you go back to the OP I state that I had a bad feeling about this. Posts from The Captain, Peace Of Mind, and kittensaver who have brothers like mine remind me how a seemly innocent request escalates into something much worse. And given that my brother is nearly 53, I know he's not going to change.
My brother has ADHD and is a kind of narcissist. Normal people might ask themselves why their father and their two oldest won't talk to them. Hmmm could it be me? Nope, as tskeeter pointed out it's never their fault.
This board keeps me grounded and I appreciate helpful advice.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 16, 2015 10:15:07 GMT -5
Probably because I'm not his closest relative. So what? Your brother is an idiot. He just should have put you down. Just the mere process of asking you started a bunch of drama that could have been avoided. And I think you just should have let him put you down also, especially since he gave you the courtesy of asking. Why start drama & cause problems before he even fails? Worst case scenario you get some calls, you say "sorry don't know that person", repeat & block numbers as necessary.
I think it is kind of messed up to assume he will fail before anything happens when the worst case scenario on your end isn't a big deal. And yes, I've experienced the calls. My ex has quite a few random debts out there that I used to get calls about.
I cannot divorce my family.
I'm trying to head off drama by not getting mixed up in my brother's financial affairs and becoming the 4th person who doesn't talk to him because he can't get his stuff together.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 16, 2015 11:48:11 GMT -5
With some in laws, I would prefer that they never knew acknowledge in writing that we're related. I want to stay far far away from anything to do with their financials, because there's always a way to get sucked into their drama. They specialize in dragging people in. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/raspberries.png) I think that generally applies to anyone with lots of drama in their lives. They suck people into their drama. Whether it's in-laws or the bi-polar next door neighbor or the alcoholic girlfriend with emotional stability issues. Very quickly it becomes a full time job to deal with the drama they add to your life. Lack of contact helps to limit the drama they have you dealing with. Ask me how I know this Yeah, I have minimal contact with the drama queens I can't completely cut out because DH still loves them. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jul 16, 2015 11:57:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it's petty. He's not asking you to co-sign on a loan. He's asking to write your name down on an application for a place to live. Either you want a relationship with him or you don't. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Fine. Give me your name, number and address so he can put it on his app. Let me know how it works out for you. He's not my brother, why would my name go there?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 16, 2015 12:05:33 GMT -5
Fine. Give me your name, number and address so he can put it on his app. Let me know how it works out for you. He's not my brother, why would my name go there? Um . . . you've never had an "innocent reference" for a relative go bad, have you? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/duh.png)
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 16, 2015 12:06:27 GMT -5
He's not my brother, why would my name go there? Um . . . you've never had an "innocent reference" for a relative go bad, have you? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/duh.png) An innocent reference once went bad and killed my father.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 16, 2015 12:08:02 GMT -5
Um . . . you've never had an "innocent reference" for a relative go bad, have you? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/duh.png) An innocent reference once went bad and killed my father. Wow Archie . . . I hope you're kidding! If not, well wow - - - you have my condolences ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wte.png)
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 16, 2015 12:09:59 GMT -5
An innocent reference once went bad and killed my father. Wow Archie . . . I hope you're kidding! If not, well wow - - - you have my condolences ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wte.png) Not kidding at all. He was tearing up an innocent reference from a relative and he got a freak papercut that slit his juglar. He bled out on the spot.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 16, 2015 12:42:02 GMT -5
Okay. I didn't realize your line of reasoning had gone to the polar opposite of your earlier replies on this subject! Sorry. Because I have a terrible habit of wanting to be helpful and then doing the ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/doh.gif)
I need you all to give me a good head smack BEFORE I do something stupid! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
How did I miss this earlier? If you even THINK about getting caught up in this let me help you... ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/doh.gif)
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 16, 2015 12:43:19 GMT -5
Wow Archie . . . I hope you're kidding! If not, well wow - - - you have my condolences ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wte.png) Not kidding at all. He was tearing up an innocent reference from a relative and he got a freak papercut that slit his juglar. He bled out on the spot. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wte.png)
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 16, 2015 15:56:41 GMT -5
Wow Archie . . . I hope you're kidding! If not, well wow - - - you have my condolences ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wte.png) Not kidding at all. He was tearing up an innocent reference from a relative and he got a freak papercut that slit his juglar. He bled out on the spot. Innocent?? That reference was guilty as F#*%!!
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jul 16, 2015 16:45:21 GMT -5
Why did you ask the question if you were going to get angry that some people think it's not a big deal? If there was only one acceptable response to you, there's really no need to ask for opinions. I'm not angry, I'm annoyed. I don't see the purpose of Ryan's post other than to press some buttons.
I post on this board mainly to be helpful. But I come from a highly dysfunctional family and have learned over the years (especially from this board) that there are an array of ways to respond to actions and requests that are not in my best interest.
If you go back to the OP I state that I had a bad feeling about this. Posts from The Captain, Peace Of Mind, and kittensaver who have brothers like mine remind me how a seemly innocent request escalates into something much worse. And given that my brother is nearly 53, I know he's not going to change.
My brother has ADHD and is a kind of narcissist. Normal people might ask themselves why their father and their two oldest won't talk to them. Hmmm could it be me? Nope, as tskeeter pointed out it's never their fault.
This board keeps me grounded and I appreciate helpful advice.
Why would think I was pressing buttons? Because I thought it was petty? He's not asking you for money, he's not asking you to co-sign, and he could've just done it without asking at all. If you're willing to put up with your brother, but aren't willing to be listed on the credit application as a family member they would contact IN CASE HE DIES, then maybe you should just cutoff all ties with him. If your niece wants to talk to you, she's old enough to contact you and maintain the relationship.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Jul 16, 2015 17:16:02 GMT -5
I think this is your brother's way of asking for your help in order to help him to reconcile with his other relatives.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 16, 2015 17:46:56 GMT -5
I'm not angry, I'm annoyed. I don't see the purpose of Ryan's post other than to press some buttons.
I post on this board mainly to be helpful. But I come from a highly dysfunctional family and have learned over the years (especially from this board) that there are an array of ways to respond to actions and requests that are not in my best interest.
If you go back to the OP I state that I had a bad feeling about this. Posts from The Captain, Peace Of Mind, and kittensaver who have brothers like mine remind me how a seemly innocent request escalates into something much worse. And given that my brother is nearly 53, I know he's not going to change.
My brother has ADHD and is a kind of narcissist. Normal people might ask themselves why their father and their two oldest won't talk to them. Hmmm could it be me? Nope, as tskeeter pointed out it's never their fault.
This board keeps me grounded and I appreciate helpful advice.
Why would think I was pressing buttons? Because I thought it was petty? He's not asking you for money, he's not asking you to co-sign, and he could've just done it without asking at all. If you're willing to put up with your brother, but aren't willing to be listed on the credit application as a family member they would contact IN CASE HE DIES, then maybe you should just cutoff all ties with him. If your niece wants to talk to you, she's old enough to contact you and maintain the relationship. Did you miss the post where he's married? She's his next of kin. And if they both died one of the adult children would be next of kin. And if they all died my father would be next of kin. Legally I'm pretty far down the chain.
My post listed the reasons why a LL wants that information. The next of kin notification would not likely be applicable in this case. Therefore the only reason a landlord would be contacting me is to try to locate my brother because he owes them money and/or he left a mess. Given that he has a history of defaulting I'd say there's a good probability that I could get contacted.
But the bigger issue is that once I gave the green light for this contact I'd be put down on every credit application. And he will default again. I've been through the collection agency process cleaning up my mother's estate. I will not volunteer for that again. I do not want to cancel my phone numbers because my brother cannot get his financial stuff together and his creditors keep calling me.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 16, 2015 17:50:58 GMT -5
I think this is your brother's way of asking for your help in order to help him to reconcile with his other relatives. Oh dear God I hope not. I tried to help my dad and him and it's just a colossal waste of time and energy.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Jul 16, 2015 18:08:57 GMT -5
That's just my guess Bonny, I could be wrong of course. But he did give an extended explanation of how it all fell apart in his email. If he wasn't upset about that, I don't think he would have bothered to mention it. Again, I could be wrong. We are all getting older and only you can decide what you're willing to do or take on for any given person. Enjoy LL, give her a big hug from me. Enjoy your time together at Yosemite and take a break from everything. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/heart.png) ETA: I told her months ago she needed to buy a pair of hiking shoes and suggested Merrells. But I can't remember if she ever bought them or not.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 16, 2015 19:14:16 GMT -5
That's just my guess Bonny, I could be wrong of course. But he did give an extended explanation of how it all fell apart in his email. If he wasn't upset about that, I don't think he would have bothered to mention it. Again, I could be wrong. We are all getting older and only you can decide what you're willing to do or take on for any given person. Enjoy LL, give her a big hug from me. Enjoy your time together at Yosemite and take a break from everything. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/heart.png) ETA: I told her months ago she needed to buy a pair of hiking shoes and suggested Merrells. But I can't remember if she ever bought them or not. In my Dad's eyes having the debt collector come to his girlfriend's house and tell them that my brother had listed the property as one of his assets was the final straw. The bad blood is really over my brother buying the family house. As you may recall my parents filed BK in 1996 and my mother left my dad. House was fully mortgaged and essentially no equity if they sold the house on the open market. My dad had some crazy scheme where he was going to rent out rooms in the house to single guys who didn't smoke or drink and no women would be allowed to spend the night. Oh and he was going to get top dollar for it because he needed the money to make the payments. I told him it was unrealistic and sure enough he had some bizarre interviewing experiences including a guy who planned on filming porno films. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif)
After a few months my mother talked my father into selling the house to my brother. I knew this was going to be a horrible fuster cluck from the beginning. My brother was living in a two bedroom condo with his four kids because he had nearly lost his previous house to foreclosure. So everybody knows that my brother's credit is shot but he moves in with his family plus his mother-in-law. So there's 7 people in my father's house. Under the best of circumstances this would be trying. My brother and his family are SLOBS + his wife runs a daycare out of the house. My father feels like a stranger in the house he's lived in for nearly 40 years. My brother's credit is so bad (400s) that it takes a year to find someone who will loan him the money. And apparently he complained about being ripped off. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif)
In the meantime, the house has gained some value and my father agrees to carry back a second mortgage for my brother. My father moves out and moves in with his girlfriend. At this point things get muddled. Apparently my brother refinances and gets the money to pay off my dad and either talks Dad into or dad agrees to invest the money in some apartment flipping scheme. Surprise, surprise the entity goes bankrupt and the money is lost. Of course there's no written agreement between Dad and bro so bro says "Dad, investment went bankrupt and the money is gone". Dad says that bro was only borrowing the money and he still owes him the money. Dad has been keeping track of the interest since 1997 and says bro now owes him over $50k. Dad, of course has conveniently forgotten that the reason I didn't speak to him or my mother for five years was that they didn't pay me money I loaned them just before they filed BK. First he denied it and asked me to prove it, then the response was "I didn't want to borrow the money it was your mom's idea". ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/doh.gif)
And the final chapter, as you know, is that my brother continued to refinance and pull out equity (just like my folks did) was in some sort of state of foreclosure for about 10 years and finally lost the family house in 2009. Property was purchased in 1963 for $21,000. Taxes were $700/yr in 2009. Property was foreclosed on with over $700k in loans.
Oh yeah, my family is a special kind of crazy.
Yes, I'm looking forward to seeing my BFF and sharing a few days in Yosemite with her. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/cool.png)
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jul 16, 2015 19:43:04 GMT -5
That's just my guess Bonny, I could be wrong of course. But he did give an extended explanation of how it all fell apart in his email. If he wasn't upset about that, I don't think he would have bothered to mention it. Again, I could be wrong. We are all getting older and only you can decide what you're willing to do or take on for any given person. Enjoy LL, give her a big hug from me. Enjoy your time together at Yosemite and take a break from everything. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/heart.png) ETA: I told her months ago she needed to buy a pair of hiking shoes and suggested Merrells. But I can't remember if she ever bought them or not. In my Dad's eyes having the debt collector come to his girlfriend's house and tell them that my brother had listed the property as one of his assets was the final straw. The bad blood is really over my brother buying the family house. As you may recall my parents filed BK in 1996 and my mother left my dad. House was fully mortgaged and essentially no equity if they sold the house on the open market. My dad had some crazy scheme where he was going to rent out rooms in the house to single guys who didn't smoke or drink and no women would be allowed to spend the night. Oh and he was going to get top dollar for it because he needed the money to make the payments. I told him it was unrealistic and sure enough he had some bizarre interviewing experiences including a guy who planned on filming porno films. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif)
....
Oh yeah, my family is a special kind of crazy.
Yes, I'm looking forward to seeing my BFF and sharing a few days in Yosemite with her. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/cool.png)
To be fair, that doesn't necessarily mean that women would be spending the night.
That sounds like fun, Bonny! Have a good time with your friend (and try not to get eaten by bears or squished by falling chunks of El Capitan).
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 16, 2015 20:13:22 GMT -5
I remember a comedian saying that if you are really confident in your abilities, you give enemies as references.
When you deal with a person who is going to do what they want regardless, then it may not matter what you do.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 17, 2015 9:02:54 GMT -5
Did you miss the post where he's married? She's his next of kin. And if they both died one of the adult children would be next of kin. And if they all died my father would be next of kin. Legally I'm pretty far down the chain.
My post listed the reasons why a LL wants that information. The next of kin notification would not likely be applicable in this case. Therefore the only reason a landlord would be contacting me is to try to locate my brother because he owes them money and/or he left a mess. Given that he has a history of defaulting I'd say there's a good probability that I could get contacted.
But the bigger issue is that once I gave the green light for this contact I'd be put down on every credit application. And he will default again. I've been through the collection agency process cleaning up my mother's estate. I will not volunteer for that again. I do not want to cancel my phone numbers because my brother cannot get his financial stuff together and his creditors keep calling me.
![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif) Clearly there are a few folks here who have never experienced a deadbeat relative, or they would not be saying what they're saying or trying to convince Bonny to let her DB use her contact info. With all due respect, how hard is it to understand (the bolded part above)?
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 17, 2015 10:08:23 GMT -5
That's just my guess Bonny, I could be wrong of course. But he did give an extended explanation of how it all fell apart in his email. If he wasn't upset about that, I don't think he would have bothered to mention it. Again, I could be wrong. We are all getting older and only you can decide what you're willing to do or take on for any given person. Enjoy LL, give her a big hug from me. Enjoy your time together at Yosemite and take a break from everything. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/heart.png) ETA: I told her months ago she needed to buy a pair of hiking shoes and suggested Merrells. But I can't remember if she ever bought them or not. ... My brother and his family are SLOBS + his wife runs a daycare out of the house. My father feels like a stranger in the house he's lived in for nearly 40 years. My brother's credit is so bad (400s) that it takes a year to find someone who will loan him the money. And apparently he complained about being ripped off. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/shocked.gif)
Oh yeah, my family is a special kind of crazy.
Yes, I'm looking forward to seeing my BFF and sharing a few days in Yosemite with her. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/cool.png)
To put this in some perspective... The mgmt. company we're hiring to manage our rentals uses a score of 575 to screen out perspective tenants. Anything below that and the application won't even be considered even with good job history.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jul 17, 2015 10:16:16 GMT -5
Did you miss the post where he's married? She's his next of kin. And if they both died one of the adult children would be next of kin. And if they all died my father would be next of kin. Legally I'm pretty far down the chain.
My post listed the reasons why a LL wants that information. The next of kin notification would not likely be applicable in this case. Therefore the only reason a landlord would be contacting me is to try to locate my brother because he owes them money and/or he left a mess. Given that he has a history of defaulting I'd say there's a good probability that I could get contacted.
But the bigger issue is that once I gave the green light for this contact I'd be put down on every credit application. And he will default again. I've been through the collection agency process cleaning up my mother's estate. I will not volunteer for that again. I do not want to cancel my phone numbers because my brother cannot get his financial stuff together and his creditors keep calling me.
![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif) Clearly there are a few folks here who have never experienced a deadbeat relative, or they would not be saying what they're saying or trying to convince Bonny to let her DB use her contact info. With all due respect, how hard is it to understand (the bolded part above)? With all due respect, the fact that someone doesn't agree with you is not an indication that they are incapable of understanding things. You should stop making assumptions about people's cognitive abilities, and about their families. The fact that some folks choose to not share all the details of their family history doesn't mean their families are perfect, nor does it mean they are terrible. It just means you don't know, because they didn't tell you.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 17, 2015 10:46:31 GMT -5
imawino, my takeaway is the same as kittensaver's. Those posts do appear to have a lack of empathy.
FWIW I wasn't overly sympathetic to folks who were going through the foreclosure/short sale process until I went through it with my mother's estate. That was 6 months of unnecessary hell that never needed to happen because the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. Untrained personal who were overwhelmed and led by a supervisor who didn't understand the workings of his own bank. My decision to pursue the short sale was optional. But given my experience, there had to be 10s of thousands of people who lost their homes unnecessarily. It was a real eye opener for me. And to add icing to the cake, the bank who bought the original lender's portfolio then attempted to collect foreclosure fees that were incurred by the incompetency of the first bank FIVE YEARS after the fact. That was another six months of letter writing, complaints to regulatory agencies to get rid of those BS fees.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 17, 2015 11:09:23 GMT -5
Ugh
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 17, 2015 11:52:45 GMT -5
Did you miss the post where he's married? She's his next of kin. And if they both died one of the adult children would be next of kin. And if they all died my father would be next of kin. Legally I'm pretty far down the chain.
My post listed the reasons why a LL wants that information. The next of kin notification would not likely be applicable in this case. Therefore the only reason a landlord would be contacting me is to try to locate my brother because he owes them money and/or he left a mess. Given that he has a history of defaulting I'd say there's a good probability that I could get contacted.
But the bigger issue is that once I gave the green light for this contact I'd be put down on every credit application. And he will default again. I've been through the collection agency process cleaning up my mother's estate. I will not volunteer for that again. I do not want to cancel my phone numbers because my brother cannot get his financial stuff together and his creditors keep calling me.
![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif) Clearly there are a few folks here who have never experienced a deadbeat relative, or they would not be saying what they're saying or trying to convince Bonny to let her DB use her contact info. With all due respect, how hard is it to understand (the bolded part above)? IMO dealing with this issue would be nothing like dealing with an estate. I get estates are a pain in the ass, but that is a whole different situation. All you have to do if they start calling for your brother is say 'wrong number'. I've done it and it isn't the end of the world. You don't have to deal with the details of the debts and you know they can't come after you for his debts. Hang up and if necessary block numbers. Worst case scenario this eats up a few minutes of time in your life. You've spent more time on this thread than you ever would have spent saying 'wrong number' a bunch of times. You guys are making it sound like this is some huge ordeal. It isn't. I've been there.
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Ryan
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 16, 2014 13:40:36 GMT -5
Posts: 2,202
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Post by Ryan on Jul 17, 2015 12:18:33 GMT -5
imawino, my takeaway is the same as kittensaver's. Those posts do appear to have a lack of empathy.
FWIW I wasn't overly sympathetic to folks who were going through the foreclosure/short sale process until I went through it with my mother's estate. That was 6 months of unnecessary hell that never needed to happen because the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. Untrained personal who were overwhelmed and led by a supervisor who didn't understand the workings of his own bank. My decision to pursue the short sale was optional. But given my experience, there had to be 10s of thousands of people who lost their homes unnecessarily. It was a real eye opener for me. And to add icing to the cake, the bank who bought the original lender's portfolio then attempted to collect foreclosure fees that were incurred by the incompetency of the first bank FIVE YEARS after the fact. That was another six months of letter writing, complaints to regulatory agencies to get rid of those BS fees. You're making a big deal out of nothing, it's not a lack of empathy on anyone's part. If someone really wanted to track a person down, there are all sorts of simple ways to find people that might know the person. If you want to help your brother out and limit and downside for yourself, you'd just get a random internet phone number to give to him that is forwarded to your real number. If you start getting calls, then you turn off the forwarding.
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