Does This Seem Like a Good Idea? Another student loan story

[alabamagal]

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/07/08/martin-omalley-racked-up-339200-in-loans-putting-two-kids-through-college-he-wants-to-lighten-the-load-for-others/

Just Wow!  $329k for student loans for 2 kids and you have 2 more?  He was governor and his wife is a district judge, so not like they are in the poor house.

One student went to private college (Georgetown) and the other public (College of Charleston) but since they are in Md that would be out of state.

Quote from daughter

"I had to make a tough choice: Do I go to the college we can afford or do I take out loans to go to the college of my dreams?” she wrote. “At the age of 18, I made the decision to follow my dreams. My family and I now face years of debt -- and we know we're not the only ones.”

[gs11rmb]

That does not seem like a good idea...

[grumpyhermit]

Yeah, no.

[Deleted]

If you choose to follow your dreams and incur the debt, then it is yours to pay off. Whining about it after the fact does not impress me. My kid made the choice to go to state U because of cost considerations. 

I am really getting sick of rich kid entitlement.

[NancysSummerSip]

Dear Lawd. If a governor and a district judge cannot make better choices, then everyone is screwed for brains.

Seriously, why is the 18-year-old making the decision? OK, if she were my kid, I'd want her to be happy, too. But happiness comes at a price, princess. And if you want your dream college, you'd better be able to pay for it, aside from what Governor Dad and Judge Mom can comfortably contribute. It's nice to have not one, but two parents in high places. But NINE loans? Are they nuckinfutz? Are these girls working and paying back these loans? And O'Malley is running for president?

And two more kids to put through college.

[TheHaitian]

In an e-mail sent to O’Malley supporters Tuesday, Grace O’Malley, now a public school teacher in Baltimore, relayed her college-tuition story and urged others to do so on a Web page set up by her father’s campaign.

Hope some of those or all those loans are federal because she would qualify for the loan forgiveness program after 10 years of timely on time income-based payments.

[TheHaitian]

Jul 8, 2015 13:33:20 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Dear Lawd. If a governor and a district judge cannot make better choices, then everyone is screwed for brains.

Seriously, why is the 18-year-old making the decision? OK, if she were my kid, I'd want her to be happy, too. But happiness comes at a price, princess. And if you want your dream college, you'd better be able to pay for it, aside from what Governor Dad and Judge Mom can comfortably contribute. It's nice to have not one, but two parents in high places. But NINE loans? Are they nuckinfutz? Are these girls working and paying back these loans? And O'Malley is running for president?

And two more kids to put through college.

Each year = 4 loans
2 kids = 8 loans

So maybe there was an extra one in there for maybe a semester abroad.

At least that is how my wife and I student loans reads... Actually they are broken down by semester. So on our credit report you would think I have 10-12 Federal loans and same for my wife.

[NancysSummerSip]

Jul 8, 2015 13:37:35 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Jul 8, 2015 13:33:20 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Dear Lawd. If a governor and a district judge cannot make better choices, then everyone is screwed for brains.

Seriously, why is the 18-year-old making the decision? OK, if she were my kid, I'd want her to be happy, too. But happiness comes at a price, princess. And if you want your dream college, you'd better be able to pay for it, aside from what Governor Dad and Judge Mom can comfortably contribute. It's nice to have not one, but two parents in high places. But NINE loans? Are they nuckinfutz? Are these girls working and paying back these loans? And O'Malley is running for president?

And two more kids to put through college.

Each year = 4 loans
2 kids = 8 loans

So maybe there was an extra one in there for maybe a semester abroad.

At least that is how my wife and I student loans reads... Actually they are broken down by semester. So on our credit report you would think I have 10-12 Federal loans and same for my wife.

But you're not the governor of a state and your wife is not a judge. O'Malley and his wife have at least two kids close together in age (the two mentioned in the Post story), so it's not as if 1) they were working poor people and 2) they were unaware of the possibility of two of them in college at the same time. Oh, and 3) with four kids going to college, or at least the expectation thereof, the kid who wants her dream college needed to get a reality check.

I don't put you and your wife in the same category, Carl. And that's a compliment.

[grumpyhermit]

He would not get my vote.

In an e-mail sent to O’Malley supporters Tuesday, Grace O’Malley, now a public school teacher in Baltimore, relayed her college-tuition story and urged others to do so on a Web page set up by her father’s campaign.

Also, her story is just about really selfish choices, and a poor lack of planning, so I am not sure what they are hoping to accomplish with this plea.

[The Captain]

You know from the day your kid is born that if you want them to go to college you need to start saving.

The fact that they racked up so much tells me a lot of private loans, and the kids didn't have jobs.  So household income is not an issue.

Start accepting responsibility and stop expecting everyone else to pay for your dreams.

[Tiny]

Jul 8, 2015 13:51:48 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

He would not get my vote.

In an e-mail sent to O’Malley supporters Tuesday, Grace O’Malley, now a public school teacher in Baltimore, relayed her college-tuition story and urged others to do so on a Web page set up by her father’s campaign.

Also, her story is just about really selfish choices, and a poor lacking of planning, so I am not sure what they are hoping to accomplish with this plea.

This is what he's hoping to accomplish - when he's elected by other "kids" and "families" that have huge student loans:

Under O’Malley’s plan, students and parents would be able to refinance their debt at lower interest rates. And O’Malley would base the repayment terms for student borrowers on their income upon graduation.

For the long term, O’Malley said he would set a goal of limiting college tuition to 10 percent of a state’s median income at four-year institutions and 5 percent at two-year institutions. Federal matching grants would help states that participate in reaching the goal.

Under his plan, O’Malley would also increase Pell Grants and revamp federal work-study programs to help cover non-tuition costs, such as room and board.

I do see the utter unfairness of high interest rates on SLs when interest rates on other types of debt are so low...

I'm not sure about his other plans... I really don't need to pay higher taxes so some one else's  loser kid can go to college because it's a good way to have a place to sleep and eat for cheap only to 'graduate' and then NOT get a job.  I'm paying enough in taxes for stuff that has little value to me. 


I have very little sympathy for a child who chooses to sink her family into debt so she can persue her dream of.... being a school teacher.     I'm NOT saying that being a teacher  is bad or not admirable.... just that she probably could have achieved the same dream without the big price tag.     5 to 10 years from now it's not going to matter which of her school choices she graduated from...  Just saying. 
 
 

[alabamagal]

I have 3 kids that are 4 years apart in school. The 3rd started school a year early so it could have been 5 years apart. So since the youngest star K5 I knew this was coming.

My oldest finished college in 3 years plus 2 summers so she finished just as #3 was starting so I never actually had 3 in college at same time. I have got 2 more years until #3 finishes.

It has been tough. There have been loans in kids names, but totals will be about $25k per kid for them to pay back.

It helps tremendously that they have all chosen public schools and have been able to get nearly full tuition scholarships.

[Tiny]

Is achieveing a dream as fulfilling if you have it handed to you on a silver platter?  Wouldn't achieving a dream be more "magical" if you actually had to put some skin in the game?  


Maybe, society has just redefined what constitutes "one's dream"?   

Hmmm,  I think I'm going to fulfil a 'dream' by going out right now and getting some IceCream.   My life will be complete....

[grumpyhermit]

I don't really keep track of the cost of various state schools, but if I had to guess, I don't think they are the ones that are resulting in the 100k+ in student debt. So her story still has no impact on his policy. I also doubt his assertion that by limiting the costs of state schools, it will drive down the costs of the elite private schools. They can charge basically what they want, and get it. The very fact that she thought it was "worth it" to rack up probably a quarter million in loans to "follow her dream" is proof of that.

She went to Georgetown (currently $67,420 a year), her sister went to College of Charleston (currently $22,520). They were probably no need, so they were footing the full bill either way. If you want to follow your "dream" of going to Georgetown to work as a school teacher...good for you. But you aren't getting any sympathy from me about the cost of the experience.

[Peace77]

Jul 8, 2015 13:35:48 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

In an e-mail sent to O’Malley supporters Tuesday, Grace O’Malley, now a public school teacher in Baltimore, relayed her college-tuition story and urged others to do so on a Web page set up by her father’s campaign.

Hope some of those or all those loans are federal because she would qualify for the loan forgiveness program after 10 years of timely on time income-based payments.

Not all jobs qualify for loan forgiveness.  It has to be 10 years of work in the non profit or public sectors.  So a teacher in a public school would qualify, a teacher in a private college would not.

[NancysSummerSip]

Jul 8, 2015 14:32:37 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

I have 3 kids that are 4 years apart in school. The 3rd started school a year early so it could have been 5 years apart. So since the youngest star K5 I knew this was coming.

My oldest finished college in 3 years plus 2 summers so she finished just as #3 was starting so I never actually had 3 in college at same time. I have got 2 more years until #3 finishes.

It has been tough. There have been loans in kids names, but totals will be about $25k per kid for them to pay back.

It helps tremendously that they have all chosen public schools and have been able to get nearly full tuition scholarships.

See, you have done a lot of things right:

Your oldest did the college thing in three years, plus the summers. I did that, too. It's often cheaper to go in the summer, and you can usually fit in a part-time job at the same time. Plus take courses at a community college (way cheaper) and transfer the credits (which is what I did.)

The loans are as low as you could manage to get them, and your kids are responsible, not you.

They went to public schools and found scholarships.

[TheHaitian]

Jul 8, 2015 14:49:43 GMT -5 Peace77 said:

Jul 8, 2015 13:35:48 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Hope some of those or all those loans are federal because she would qualify for the loan forgiveness program after 10 years of timely on time income-based payments.

Not all jobs qualify for loan forgiveness.  It has to be 10 years of work in the non profit or public sectors.  So a teacher in a public school would qualify, a teacher in a private college would not.

I understand that... She is a Public School Teacher in Baltimore!

[tskeeter]

Another BS plan to make other people pay for the choices your family made!

Now, I do think that college costs too much and that colleges are playing the charge whatever the market will bear game.  But, it's up to families to decide what a college education is worth to them.  If they can't shift the cost of their choices to businesses and those greedy, rich bastards who worked 80 and 90 hours a week to acquire their wealth, some people would make different decisions about how much they are willing to pay for a college education.

[teen persuasion]

Jul 8, 2015 14:31:32 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Jul 8, 2015 13:51:48 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

He would not get my vote.

Also, her story is just about really selfish choices, and a poor lacking of planning, so I am not sure what they are hoping to accomplish with this plea.

This is what he's hoping to accomplish - when he's elected by other "kids" and "families" that have huge student loans:

Under O’Malley’s plan, students and parents would be able to refinance their debt at lower interest rates. And O’Malley would base the repayment terms for student borrowers on their income upon graduation.

For the long term, O’Malley said he would set a goal of limiting college tuition to 10 percent of a state’s median income at four-year institutions and 5 percent at two-year institutions. Federal matching grants would help states that participate in reaching the goal.

Under his plan, O’Malley would also increase Pell Grants and revamp federal work-study programs to help cover non-tuition costs, such as room and board.

I do see the utter unfairness of high interest rates on SLs when interest rates on other types of debt are so low...

I'm not sure about his other plans... I really don't need to pay higher taxes so some one else's  loser kid can go to college because it's a good way to have a place to sleep and eat for cheap only to 'graduate' and then NOT get a job.  I'm paying enough in taxes for stuff that has little value to me. 


I have very little sympathy for a child who chooses to sink her family into debt so she can persue her dream of.... being a school teacher.     I'm NOT saying that being a teacher  is bad or not admirable.... just that she probably could have achieved the same dream without the big price tag.     5 to 10 years from now it's not going to matter which of her school choices she graduated from...  Just saying. 
 
 

This family did not qualify for PELL grants, so increasing those won't assist other families like them.  Work Study can be used for room and board, after it has been earned, but it has a relatively low max, maybe $1200 per year.  Room and board runs approximately $12k a year now, more than tuition and fees at a state university (for my DD3).  Actually, tuition alone probably is about 10% of average income right now.

Reading the article, it sounds like the parents took out the loans.

[Deleted]

Jul 8, 2015 20:31:13 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

This family did not qualify for PELL grants, so increasing those won't assist other families like them.  Work Study can be used for room and board, after it has been earned, but it has a relatively low max, maybe $1200 per year.  Room and board runs approximately $12k a year now, more than tuition and fees at a state university (for my DD3).  Actually, tuition alone probably is about 10% of average income right now.

Reading the article, it sounds like the parents took out the loans.

That is really ridiculous when you figure they're only there 9 months, so over $1300/month for a little room and meals.  I would like my kids to get the experience of "going away" to college, but even though our room and board isn't quite that much (about 8K), it's hard to not consider that if they stay home and go to a local school it will cut the cost in half. 

[garion2003]

Jul 8, 2015 20:31:13 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

This family did not qualify for PELL grants, so increasing those won't assist other families like them.  Work Study can be used for room and board, after it has been earned, but it has a relatively low max, maybe $1200 per year.  Room and board runs approximately $12k a year now, more than tuition and fees at a state university (for my DD3).  Actually, tuition alone probably is about 10% of average income right now.

Reading the article, it sounds like the parents took out the loans.

[973beachbum]

Jul 8, 2015 14:49:43 GMT -5 Peace77 said:

Jul 8, 2015 13:35:48 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Hope some of those or all those loans are federal because she would qualify for the loan forgiveness program after 10 years of timely on time income-based payments.

Not all jobs qualify for loan forgiveness.  It has to be 10 years of work in the non profit or public sectors.  So a teacher in a public school would qualify, a teacher in a private college would not.

The teacher loan forgiveness program is a different program.  I don't know why, it just is.   The school the person teaches at must be "qualified" and they have to teach there for 5 full consecutive years.  The max amount to get forgiven is $17500 but that amount is also only if you are highly qualified in and teach math or science or spec ed.   Every other specialty can only max out at $5000.

studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/teacher

[973beachbum]

Jul 8, 2015 14:32:37 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

I have 3 kids that are 4 years apart in school. The 3rd started school a year early so it could have been 5 years apart. So since the youngest star K5 I knew this was coming.

My oldest finished college in 3 years plus 2 summers so she finished just as #3 was starting so I never actually had 3 in college at same time. I have got 2 more years until #3 finishes.

It has been tough. There have been loans in kids names, but totals will be about $25k per kid for them to pay back.

It helps tremendously that they have all chosen public schools and have been able to get nearly full tuition scholarships.

I just wanted to quote this because it goes counter to the YM mythos.  Your kids went to state colleges and got nearly a full tuition scholarships yet still came out with $25K in student loans.

Most states don't have a program that gives out full or nearly full scholarships to large groups of kids.  I am guessing our prices are a little higher too.  So everyone just imagine what the cost is without that.

[tskeeter]

Jul 9, 2015 8:46:33 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Jul 8, 2015 14:32:37 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

I have 3 kids that are 4 years apart in school. The 3rd started school a year early so it could have been 5 years apart. So since the youngest star K5 I knew this was coming.

My oldest finished college in 3 years plus 2 summers so she finished just as #3 was starting so I never actually had 3 in college at same time. I have got 2 more years until #3 finishes.

It has been tough. There have been loans in kids names, but totals will be about $25k per kid for them to pay back.

It helps tremendously that they have all chosen public schools and have been able to get nearly full tuition scholarships.

I just wanted to quote this because it goes counter to the YM mythos.  Your kids went to state colleges and got nearly a full tuition scholarships yet still came out with $25K in student loans.

Most states don't have a program that gives out full or nearly full scholarships to large groups of kids.  I am guessing our prices are a little higher too.  So everyone just imagine what the cost is without that.

I think that what this shows is that tuition is, and has been since I was in school 40 years ago, only a small part of the college education bill.  In my day, my books cost more than tuition.  And the single biggest cost was room and board.

[grumpyhermit]

I graduated about 13 years ago from a state school. I got academic scholarships that essentially covered all of the tuition. I still graduated with almost 20k in SL debt. Almost all of it was used for housing/living.

I didn't really have anyone in my family guiding me through the whole admission and financial aid piece. Knowing what I know now, I would have probably done it a bit differently, but the SL debt that I did have was actually quite manageable. Room and board is definitely a huge chunk of the cost.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Don't forget all the fees colleges push on you now that the state doesn't pay for much if anything nowadays.   All the fees at Simpson added up to an extra $3k per year on my bill.

[thyme4change]

Jul 8, 2015 13:33:20 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Dear Lawd. If a governor and a district judge cannot make better choices, then everyone is screwed for brains.

I know a few judges.  They are just as stupid with money as everyone else.  I know a bunch of people that make really good money, and have nothing to show for it.  One problem with being a lawyer is that your peers might be making $300k per year.  They might be making $1M per year.  As a couple - these two were probably making $250k, and trying to keep up with their $1M friends.  

The book "The Millionaire next door" explains the problem perfectly.  You might be better off making $100k and hanging out with people making $50k, then making half a million bucks and hanging out with multi-millionaires.  My husband has several friends who have given us grief because we "have more than they do."  Well, shit - you travel every frickin' weekend, and you have season tickets to every sports team.  Live like us - you will have savings.  But they don't want to live like us - they want to live like the guy who rings the bell as a plaintiff's litigator and brings down 7 figures a year.  You ain't doing that on a public servant's salary - not even a highly paid public servant.  

[zibazinski]

These students did have parents who went to college but didn't have the balls to say NO to an expensive degree/college experience for their children. Luckily, I don't have that issue.

[zibazinski]

Jul 9, 2015 9:31:04 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jul 8, 2015 13:33:20 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Dear Lawd. If a governor and a district judge cannot make better choices, then everyone is screwed for brains.

I know a few judges.  They are just as stupid with money as everyone else.  I know a bunch of people that make really good money, and have nothing to show for it.  One problem with being a lawyer is that your peers might be making $300k per year.  They might be making $1M per year.  As a couple - these two were probably making $250k, and trying to keep up with their $1M friends.  

The book "The Millionaire next door" explains the problem perfectly.  You might be better off making $100k and hanging out with people making $50k, then making half a million bucks and hanging out with multi-millionaires.  My husband has several friends who have given us grief because we "have more than they do."  Well, shit - you travel every frickin' weekend, and you have season tickets to every sports team.  Live like us - you will have savings.  But they don't want to live like us - they want to live like the guy who rings the bell as a plaintiff's litigator and brings down 7 figures a year.  You ain't doing that on a public servant's salary - not even a highly paid public servant.  

This is the same nonsense that makes people think 50k weddings are the normal. Because all their friends have them Hang with real people and you'll be richer and happier for it.

[justme]

Jul 9, 2015 7:41:21 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 8, 2015 20:31:13 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

This family did not qualify for PELL grants, so increasing those won't assist other families like them.  Work Study can be used for room and board, after it has been earned, but it has a relatively low max, maybe $1200 per year.  Room and board runs approximately $12k a year now, more than tuition and fees at a state university (for my DD3).  Actually, tuition alone probably is about 10% of average income right now.

Reading the article, it sounds like the parents took out the loans.

That is really ridiculous when you figure they're only there 9 months, so over $1300/month for a little room and meals.  I would like my kids to get the experience of "going away" to college, but even though our room and board isn't quite that much (about 8K), it's hard to not consider that if they stay home and go to a local school it will cut the cost in half. 

Larger schools probably have a thriving student apartments. When I went to school it was about 420 a person for a person to share a 4 bedroom apt with en suite for each person. Included utilities and basic cable. And individual leases so it doesn't matter whether your roommates pay or not. And kitchen and laundry so that could cut down on costs.

Though I'm sure it's a bit more now, I definitely lived cheaper when I was off campus.