The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 6, 2015 15:00:05 GMT -5
Yep, that's me. My family flew up to visit over the 4th. Dad apparently had some bank investment person call him. I can't get all the details but Dad is convinced he can get 5% "interest" a year on his money in "safe" deposits. Some background. My father is legally deaf, and even with hearing aids I think he misses 1 in every 3 words. Dad never went beyond 5th grade (his father pulled all the boys out to work on the farm). Now it doesn't mean that he's not smart, but he definitely is not financially sophisticated. Oh, and his memory is starting to go. Sissy and I are co-executors of Dad's estate, we have medical POA. We do not have (nor do we want) financial POA. I asked Dad for the name and phone number of the "advisor". I've left the guy a message and am waiting on a call back. Even if he tries the whole "confidentiality" thing I've got to find a way around it. I will make sure the dude knows Dad is not a sophisticated investor and he has zero risk tolerance (Dad is in his upper 70's). I'm almost positive he want to pitch some bonds or stocks, which are not appropriate investments for my father. I will also (politely) make sure he knows Dad has a bulldog for a daughter who will hunt him down and get his license revoked if he tries to sell any investments that are not appropriate. However, I am grateful Dad still checks with sissy and I before doing anything. This stuff sucks.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jul 6, 2015 15:08:03 GMT -5
Does your father have a computer?
If so, encourage him to READ about the stuff the guy is trying to SELL him for a FEE.
Then do the math with him to see if the return really is 5% after the FEE.
And what the risks to his $$$ are.
Tell the broker ALL communication must now be done by EMAIL.
Good luck. This stuff -- the role reversals and the predatory investment sales -- does suck.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 6, 2015 15:09:26 GMT -5
You go girl!!!
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 6, 2015 15:15:27 GMT -5
Does your father have a computer? If so, encourage him to READ about the stuff the guy is trying to SELL him for a FEE. Then do the math with him to see if the return really is 5% after the FEE. And what the risks to his $$$ are. Tell the broker ALL communication must now be done by EMAIL. Good luck. This stuff -- the role reversals and the predatory investment sales -- does suck. No computer. He wouldn't know how to use one even if I got him set up on one. Plus, his reading comprehension is (and it pains me to say this) limited. Sissy or I will need to get the materials and then walk him through it. He's getting less than 1/2 of a percent on his savings, and it's really bothering him. Sissy and I tell him we don't care, he has plenty to live on comfortably, and we would feel better if he kept his savings safe rather than risking it so he can leave us more (which is exactly what he said). It's funny you know? His parents died dirt poor and Dad had to help support them in their old age. He swore he'd never do that to his kids (and he hasn't). Now I look at what sissy and I are trying to manage and I swear I'll never put DD though this. I wonder what I will fail to plan for that DD will be promising never to put her kids through.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 6, 2015 15:26:18 GMT -5
You can check on him long before he does anything inappropriate. Assuming he is in Illinois, you can run his name through the Secretary of State's website, to see if he is an independent business owner. Also this site, for stockbrokers in the state: www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/securities/And see if he is a member of this organization: he should be: noiponline.org/
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jul 6, 2015 15:28:27 GMT -5
A few years ago, Congress was considering a clamp-down on peddling "inappropriate" annuities to retirees. (the same adjective that you used). My wife's aging aunt & uncle were targeted - their "trusted banker" came to their apt, took them out to dinner, tried to push annuities on them.
8% is in the ball-park for a life annuity for a 75 year-old. The trick is that it's 8% of your own money, you hand them $100,000, it's GONE. The annuity company pays you 8% ($8000) every year for life. The 'magic' is that 8% sounds great to someone who has been getting 1% from a savings account.
Also, a bank is good for banking - checking, savings, credit cards, loans. But notoriously poor at investing, you need an investment company for investing.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 6, 2015 15:41:12 GMT -5
My vote is guaranteed annuity. My brother bought one and was bragging about getting 5% before 2008. The 5% isn't interest exactly some or all might be return of principal. My brother now says it was a mistake on his part not as good as he thought. You are gambling on the company investing making enough to pay you and their fees. Seldom a wise investment.
Dad might do better loaning the money to the kids. Dad used to loan us at 8% when CDs were high and interest rates for loans were higher. If you have a mortgage or other debt more than 3-4% you can have him finance it paying him regular payments. Mom financed a condo for a grandson and carried mortgage for a granddaughter so was making 6% instead of bank interest and the kids got a good deal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 15:48:56 GMT -5
I wish I would have meddled earlier, two sour business deals later my parents went from having their house paid off and retired to owing twice their homes value and my dad working at 67.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Jul 6, 2015 15:49:33 GMT -5
Fidelity tried to sell my mom an annuity. At 14.85%. An elderly lady who succumbed easily to flattery. I went in with her & when she went to the restroom I made sure that he knew how pissed off I was. Got signed onto her account that day, a new 'advisor' (really a salesman), and stormed out. She already had dad's military pension, an apartment bldg in SF, SSA, paid off Peacock Creek San Rafael home with views of 3 bridges, no debt. What the he!! did she need an annuity for ?
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jul 6, 2015 15:51:04 GMT -5
It's a tough call as to when to get involved.
I would definitely talk to him and let him know you are there to help and want to help before he makes any major decisions. Sounds like he did this time. But sometimes the sales guys can put a lot of pressure on people.
I have a pretty low opinion of financial sales people. When I lived in GA it was pretty big news when the company I worked for announced they were closing. I had a sales guy call me THAT DAY. It was someone we knew through our kids activities. He told me I should get "all my retirement money" and give it to him to invest because he would get a "much better" return. I never spoke to him again even though we were still in the same activities for 3 years.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 6, 2015 15:59:38 GMT -5
Good comments folks.
Dad has a teamsters pension as well as social security. He's saving about half to 2/3'ds of what is coming in each month. His house is paid for and his tastes are simple (although Sis and I would love for him to spend more on himself - but he's content with his life as it is).
He doesn't need more income (aweful problem to have, right?!?). Even though his kids tell him to splurge and enjoy life, he wants to leave us something. He says that's what gives him pleasure. It makes us nuts but what can you do?
We do not want anyone to take advantage of him. That's all.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 6, 2015 16:05:57 GMT -5
Good comments folks. Dad has a teamsters pension as well as social security. He's saving about half to 2/3'ds of what is coming in each month. His house is paid for and his tastes are simple (although Sis and I would love for him to spend more on himself - but he's content with his life as it is). He doesn't need more income (aweful problem to have, right?!?). Even though his kids tell him to splurge and enjoy life, he wants to leave us something. He says that's what gives him pleasure. It makes us nuts but what can you do? We do not want anyone to take advantage of him. That's all. And you are good daughters to want that for him. By all means, get this guy's name and do a background check. Run it through the county criminal and civil background database (again, assuming Illinois, many of the counties are online, but not all). See if he's been in trouble/sued on a local level. Illinois does not really have a good statewide criminal check, so you have to do it by county. Check his licensing with the state and see if he's ever been disciplined or suspended.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 6, 2015 16:10:49 GMT -5
Good comments folks. Dad has a teamsters pension as well as social security. He's saving about half to 2/3'ds of what is coming in each month. His house is paid for and his tastes are simple (although Sis and I would love for him to spend more on himself - but he's content with his life as it is). He doesn't need more income (aweful problem to have, right?!?). Even though his kids tell him to splurge and enjoy life, he wants to leave us something. He says that's what gives him pleasure. It makes us nuts but what can you do? We do not want anyone to take advantage of him. That's all. I am the same way no pensions but more than I want to spend. I am giving away the excess pretty quickly. Last week I gave my niece 16K because she is buying a condo and filing bankruptcy. She needs to spend the money from selling her old house before the year is up in August so has 100K and no credit found a condo listed 110K her parents were going to take from retirement paying tax to lend her money she can't afford to pay payments on. So I gave her 14K then the condo price went up to 117 so I gave her 2 more. So she is only a thousand and closing cost from having enough to pay cash for a condo. I have over a million left I don't plan to spend it all so giving her now or 25-30 years from now. She will still have condo fees but car paid off and paid off condo she should be able to live on her wages even with babysitters and everything. Her ex is several months behind in support so if he pays up she will have a little wiggle room.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 6, 2015 16:38:26 GMT -5
I have over a million left I don't plan to spend it all so giving her now or 25-30 years from now.
Crone.....please don't think like this. It doesn't take much of a medical problem to run up some pretty substantial bills. Just because you don't plan to spend it doesn't mean that Murphy won't piss in your Wheaties and muck things up.
$1 million could go a hell of a long way if you do something like break a hip and need to be in rehab for a couple months. At $300/day (yes, this is in Seattle), the costs add up fast.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 6, 2015 16:40:32 GMT -5
Good comments folks. Dad has a teamsters pension as well as social security. He's saving about half to 2/3'ds of what is coming in each month. His house is paid for and his tastes are simple (although Sis and I would love for him to spend more on himself - but he's content with his life as it is). He doesn't need more income (aweful problem to have, right?!?). Even though his kids tell him to splurge and enjoy life, he wants to leave us something. He says that's what gives him pleasure. It makes us nuts but what can you do? We do not want anyone to take advantage of him. That's all. You are right to be concerned, there are unscrupulous people eager and ready to talk older people out of their money. When mom was living in the previous assisted living facility she had a phone and I can't remember how many times I was in the room when some crook called and tried to get her to give them her social security number, bank account number or credit card number. If I was there I would grab the phone away from her and start to give them a piece of my very pissed off mind but they always hung up when they realized they weren't talking to my mom anymore. Thank God at that point we had her credit cards and bank book and her dementia was at the point she couldn't remember her social or date of birth. The only thing I can figure is they some how were able to target telephone numbers for assisted living facilities to try to prey on the elderly. Scum. She started doing this even back when she was living at home - once my little sister caught her before she gave out her bank account info, and when little sister told mom she should never give that info out over the phone, mom said 'But they sounded official." They should all burn in hell.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 6, 2015 16:50:54 GMT -5
The Captain,
Why don't you have financial POA? I have them for both my MIL and father. It makes things a lot easier.
And a bond fund could be a good option for your father if he doesn't want to invest in stocks.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 6, 2015 16:59:22 GMT -5
I have over a million left I don't plan to spend it all so giving her now or 25-30 years from now.Crone.....please don't think like this. It doesn't take much of a medical problem to run up some pretty substantial bills. Just because you don't plan to spend it doesn't mean that Murphy won't piss in your Wheaties and muck things up. $1 million could go a hell of a long way if you do something like break a hip and need to be in rehab for a couple months. At $300/day (yes, this is in Seattle), the costs add up fast. I know it isn't enough to cover every contingency but it might grow quite a bit before I need any rehab. 300 a day for 30 days is 9K so 18K for two months. If my investments give me 5% I could do that every year. I don't plan to give away too much just helping the younger generation with a little seed money not support. I will not be taking any obligations for anyone like cosigning for student loans. I also will not be gifting anyone on an expected basis so maybe once ever or twice but no pattern they need to support themselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 17:00:36 GMT -5
Finra has a broker check. It lists disclosures as well as their previous employers. It won't solve your problem, but it will give you a little information on the "advisor." Here is the link
You don't need all the information the blocks ask for. Name and 25 miles from my zip got me the info on my last guy.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 6, 2015 17:04:22 GMT -5
Yep, that's me. My family flew up to visit over the 4th. Dad apparently had some bank investment person call him. I can't get all the details but Dad is convinced he can get 5% "interest" a year on his money in "safe" deposits. Some background. My father is legally deaf, and even with hearing aids I think he misses 1 in every 3 words. Dad never went beyond 5th grade (his father pulled all the boys out to work on the farm). Now it doesn't mean that he's not smart, but he definitely is not financially sophisticated. Oh, and his memory is starting to go. Sissy and I are co-executors of Dad's estate, we have medical POA. We do not have (nor do we want) financial POA. I asked Dad for the name and phone number of the "advisor". I've left the guy a message and am waiting on a call back. Even if he tries the whole "confidentiality" thing I've got to find a way around it. I will make sure the dude knows Dad is not a sophisticated investor and he has zero risk tolerance (Dad is in his upper 70's). I'm almost positive he want to pitch some bonds or stocks, which are not appropriate investments for my father. I will also (politely) make sure he knows Dad has a bulldog for a daughter who will hunt him down and get his license revoked if he tries to sell any investments that are not appropriate. However, I am grateful Dad still checks with sissy and I before doing anything. This stuff sucks. It might be helpful to make growly sounding noises about financial elder abuse. Or to give the salesman's manager a call. The salesman stands to profit. His manger stands to get a lot of grief if the salesman does something inappropriate. It might be fun to tell the manager that he needs to be aware that you are recording the coversation and ask them to state their name, job title, and the financial institution that they work for. If anything is the least bit shady, that should discourage them pretty dang quick.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Jul 6, 2015 17:48:08 GMT -5
Last week I gave my niece 16K because she is buying a condo and filing bankruptcy. Now you're responsible for filing gift tax returns unless you reterm it 14k to her, 2k to her minor child
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 6, 2015 17:48:25 GMT -5
I know you don't want one, but I HIGHLY recommend a financial DPOA. Most POAs only kick in when the person is incapacitated and unable to make decisions for themselves. The DPOA (d is for durable) gives you the ability to handle things even when they are also capable of handing them. It does NOT take away their ability to handle things. Just gives you the ability to do it for them, too.
In our case, it was essential with MIL, and made life infinitely easier.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jul 6, 2015 18:12:01 GMT -5
I agree that it's much easier to set up the financial POA now! We've seen too many stories here of what a nightmare it is once dementia strikes a parent, & it's too late to do the appropriate paperwork. And, I agree with Shanen that it still allows them to handles things until they are no longer able. And, that's when you (or your sibling) step in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 18:21:38 GMT -5
I think the simple solution is a form like the truth in lending that these "guys" have to supply. Actually, anyone selling anything (car, house, finance, will, etc).
The form would be simple with 2 check boxes:
Box 1: I am a fiduciary for you and you or your representative can sue me for not doing what is best for you. Only a jury of our peers can decide whether I looked out for your best interest. The only way I receive compensation is by payment directly from you. As such there is no benefit to me for placing you in any of the products I recommend.
Box 2: I am a selling a product. It may or may not be in your best interest. As such I have no liability if sued as the product I'm selling could have a commission, kick-back, etc. that benefits me. I must check this box unless I take fiduciary responsibility. As such I'm a sales person, everything has to be in writing and I can't give any verbal advise (I must point to the language in the contract).
Then let the rumor mill, all the articles for the uneducated tell people to watch out for Box 2 check marks.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jul 6, 2015 18:26:10 GMT -5
Yep, that's me. My family flew up to visit over the 4th. Dad apparently had some bank investment person call him. I can't get all the details but Dad is convinced he can get 5% "interest" a year on his money in "safe" deposits. Some background. My father is legally deaf, and even with hearing aids I think he misses 1 in every 3 words. Dad never went beyond 5th grade (his father pulled all the boys out to work on the farm). Now it doesn't mean that he's not smart, but he definitely is not financially sophisticated. Oh, and his memory is starting to go. Sissy and I are co-executors of Dad's estate, we have medical POA. We do not have (nor do we want) financial POA. I asked Dad for the name and phone number of the "advisor". I've left the guy a message and am waiting on a call back. Even if he tries the whole "confidentiality" thing I've got to find a way around it. I will make sure the dude knows Dad is not a sophisticated investor and he has zero risk tolerance (Dad is in his upper 70's). I'm almost positive he want to pitch some bonds or stocks, which are not appropriate investments for my father. I will also (politely) make sure he knows Dad has a bulldog for a daughter who will hunt him down and get his license revoked if he tries to sell any investments that are not appropriate. However, I am grateful Dad still checks with sissy and I before doing anything. This stuff sucks. It might be helpful to make growly sounding noises about financial elder abuse. Or to give the salesman's manager a call. The salesman stands to profit. His manger stands to get a lot of grief if the salesman does something inappropriate. It might be fun to tell the manager that he needs to be aware that you are recording the coversation and ask them to state their name, job title, and the financial institution that they work for. If anything is the least bit shady, that should discourage them pretty dang quick. I suppose they're not always "shady." They are just trying to land a big commission. Ba$tards!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 18:55:06 GMT -5
I am so glad your Dad has you and sibs to fight for him. Just your presence and intervention will probably scare off any creeps. Plus a politely worded notice that your Dad is hearing impaired, unsophisticated investor, etc. and continued efforts on their part might be construed as abuse of the elderly under law.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 19:00:30 GMT -5
Good comments folks. Dad has a teamsters pension as well as social security. He's saving about half to 2/3'ds of what is coming in each month. His house is paid for and his tastes are simple (although Sis and I would love for him to spend more on himself - but he's content with his life as it is). He doesn't need more income (aweful problem to have, right?!?). Even though his kids tell him to splurge and enjoy life, he wants to leave us something. He says that's what gives him pleasure. It makes us nuts but what can you do? We do not want anyone to take advantage of him. That's all. If he is bugged by the .05 - .5% interest on his accounts, can you help him put some of the money into laddered CDs? Still insured by the bank, still pretty low return, but it would at least make him feel a little better about it.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 7, 2015 8:38:26 GMT -5
The Captain,
Why don't you have financial POA? I have them for both my MIL and father. It makes things a lot easier.
And a bond fund could be a good option for your father if he doesn't want to invest in stocks. If I understand it correctly (and as always, please let me know if I'm wrong) a financial POA will give us the ability to act on financial matters on his behalf. It does not prevent him from acting on his own behalf. Sis is on the house title (she lives closer - it wouldn't do much to add me to it) and both of us are on his bank accounts. I have most of his bills set up for autopay. We saw another family member take financial advantage of their elderly parents and do not ever want to go where it would appear to be happening in our case. Dad has offered to gift us some money, which we've refused, saying he should spend it on himself or have it if he needs it for later care. Sissy and I do absolutely everything we can to make sure everything is on the up and up and there can be even no hint of impropriety. Let's just say financial POA could throw some gas on a fire we'd prefer not to light. Besides, how do you even breach such a topic with a man who's always taken great pride in his independence and taking care of his family? I think that would be as hard on my Dad as would be telling him it's time to give up his driving license (a conversation I am NOT looking forward to). Sigh. You're probably right. Maybe I should discuss it with Sissy and talk to Dad about it.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 7, 2015 8:52:07 GMT -5
Dad doesn't need the money. he is only interested in growing it to be able to leave more to his heirs.
IMHO, evaluate his options, since he is asking. Give him your opinion. Then let him make up his own mind, unless he is getting involved in something illegal or an out and out scam. What is doing more going to accomplish? make dad feel bad and line your own pockets. not worth it to me.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 7, 2015 8:53:59 GMT -5
Good comments folks. Dad has a teamsters pension as well as social security. He's saving about half to 2/3'ds of what is coming in each month. His house is paid for and his tastes are simple (although Sis and I would love for him to spend more on himself - but he's content with his life as it is). He doesn't need more income (aweful problem to have, right?!?). Even though his kids tell him to splurge and enjoy life, he wants to leave us something. He says that's what gives him pleasure. It makes us nuts but what can you do? We do not want anyone to take advantage of him. That's all. If he is bugged by the .05 - .5% interest on his accounts, can you help him put some of the money into laddered CDs? Still insured by the bank, still pretty low return, but it would at least make him feel a little better about it. This may be the way to go. I can get about 2.25 on a 5 year CD.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 7, 2015 9:01:22 GMT -5
Dad doesn't need the money. he is only interested in growing it to be able to leave more to his heirs. IMHO, evaluate his options, since he is asking. Give him your opinion. Then let him make up his own mind, unless he is getting involved in something illegal or an out and out scam. What is doing more going to accomplish? make dad feel bad and line your own pockets. not worth it to me. We don't give a damn about our pockets. We do want to make sure the principal is there for long term care if he needs it. The county nursing homes suck in his area. He's had a knee replaced once and may need to have it replaced again. In home care and physical therapy is expensive. I know the rules were changed recently but it used to be physical therapy was only covered by medicare if there was improvement in a condition, not maintenance of a current state. He worked a pretty physical job all his life. It will not be a surprise if he needs to have the other knee replaced. It would kill him if he had to go on Medicaid. That is what we are trying to avoid. To be honest, I'm not sure how all of this works. Need to find out more.
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