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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 31, 2015 15:15:26 GMT -5
I never understood why people mouth off to cops. I have never had an issue talking to a cop even when I was in the wrong. Like that time I totaled my car and the cop asked me if I could move it to the shoulder - uh no, you freaking moron!!!! But I simply said "I don't believe I can." Yeah.....in the other thread, where we were stopped at 2 am, the cop was claiming that TD was going over the speed limit. He had his cruise control set at 2 mph LOWER than the speed limit because he knew that the area was a very bad speed trap. The cop was arrogant and VERY antagonistic. Both of us kept our mouths shut, because both of us figured that he was itching for a fight. To this day, I'm wondering if when he stopped the car, he found that there were a couple of 50 year old people, totally sober on the way back from the airport and realized that he didn't have a leg to stand on for the stop. However, neither of us were going to antagonize him about him saying we were speeding, when we were getting passed right and left.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on May 31, 2015 15:41:33 GMT -5
Oh, puleeeze!
Domestic assaults happen in every walk of life. Not just police officers.
Lawyers, executives, Doctors, your friendly produce clerk, or quiet neighbor up the street.
We don't hear about those too often because it isn't "news". The media are the first to jump all over a story where a police officer had to act out aggressively in the line of duty (not only to protect him/herself, but also the public AND the aggressor) and the media are the first to paint the officer with a tarred brush - no matter what the situation was.
In this case, the two men were the aggressors and confrontational - not the police. They were also armed.
Just the other night around 10:30 or 11 pm, I was sitting out on the patio and a car was whizzing by, and a cruiser appeared on the scene (had probably been tailing the driver since he was driving carelessly). As soon as the car came around the corner, the flashing lights on the cruiser came on. The car pulled over and the officer approached the vehicle to speak to the driver and check his registration/license.
He then walked back to his cruiser with the documents in his hand - standard procedure to check the documents/license plates and identification on the computer.
The driver of car (being an idiot, apparently) got out of his car and started walking back toward the cruiser. HUGE mistake.
The police officer exited his vehicle, holster unclipped. The man was told loudly to return to his car. The man was shouting at the officer and obviously pissed-off. He was told one more time to return to his car and wait.
The man stood his ground. The officer must have been using his two-way - within less than a minute there were 2 more cruisers on the scene and the man was placed in the back of a police car. His car was towed.
I don't know if he was intoxicated or just a hot-head - but the whole scene could have turned out much worse if the man had continued being confrontational before being restrained. The police had no way of knowing if he as armed.
If he'd done as told and returned to his car, or better yet, stayed there in the first place, he probably would have only been given a fine for a driving infraction - and possibly a DUI if indeed he was under the influence.
He was the victim of his own stupidity - just like the men in the link on page 1.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 16:17:46 GMT -5
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 31, 2015 16:48:59 GMT -5
I am pretty much known here for my right wing views. I think the police are ought of control. Does that not strike anyone here?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 18:38:43 GMT -5
I am pretty much known here for my right wing views. I think the police are ought of control. Does that not strike anyone here? Strike anyone with what? That another persons right wing views don't mesh with yours in entirety? No, not really.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 31, 2015 19:27:35 GMT -5
I am pretty much known here for my right wing views. I think the police are ought of control. Does that not strike anyone here? Yep. Strikes me as that kind of comment always strikes me. People on message boards don't know near as much about the other people on the message board as they think they know.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on May 31, 2015 20:38:00 GMT -5
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Post by Value Buy on May 31, 2015 20:44:26 GMT -5
I am pretty much known here for my right wing views. I think the police are ought of control. Does that not strike anyone here? Was that another comment directed at me? Since I can't seem to stay out of this thread. How about you comment or answer my question? Well this is addressed to you. How many people are killed by police in the USA? We are at the top of the list for police shootings and lead just about every civilized country as well as some not civilized countries. Many conservatives are visibly upset with this situation as well as we should be.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on May 31, 2015 20:55:50 GMT -5
Here is another account of the incident. Your link doesn't provide any new information that we haven't already read.
The men should have moved out of the water and onto higher ground. Anyone in their right mind would have for their own safety & survival.
The men were confrontational once on land. PLUS they were armed. The fact that one is/was an " assistant" pastor means nothing. Anyone can be.. they should have accepted the assistance, but they resisted and put up a struggle.
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Post by Value Buy on May 31, 2015 21:04:37 GMT -5
Well this is addressed to you. How many people are killed by police in the USA? We are at the top of the list for police shootings and lead just about every civilized country as well as some not civilized countries. Many conservatives are visibly upset with this situation as well as we should be. Conservative/liberal has nothing to do with it. As to your questions and assertions, the US Also ranks near the top in violent crimes. Do you think perhaps it might be those violent criminals getting shot by police? And please don't try to pin this as a conservative cause. Because I'm conservative and think this misplaced outrage over the police would be energy better spent on outrage that this country seems to be breeding degenerates like our fine fellows here that turned on and assaulted a police officer after he saved their worthless lives. so far we just have the policeman's word on that. Did you read the article I just posted? Makes you wonder about the circumstances.
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Post by billisonboard on May 31, 2015 21:48:14 GMT -5
Deescalation and disengagement skills. Ego detachment is another. Ok so how are they supposed to react when they are assaulted. ... They should shoot the mother******. And when they shoot a person who is not a threat, they need to go to prison.
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Post by EVT1 on May 31, 2015 22:00:12 GMT -5
Was that another comment directed at me? Since I can't seem to stay out of this thread. How about you comment or answer my question? Well this is addressed to you. How many people are killed by police in the USA? We are at the top of the list for police shootings and lead just about every civilized country as well as some not civilized countries. Many conservatives are visibly upset with this situation as well as we should be. We are also at the top of the list when it comes to lax gun laws. I am sure there is no relation.
How many folks did British police shoot last year- that is the ones that actually carry guns
Or insert any other modern country........
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 31, 2015 22:09:00 GMT -5
Yeah...because I'm still pissed at the the attitudes on this any many other threads. Cop shooting. Please as tell me how extra training could have deescalated this situation. Shooby @hickle billisonboard you explain to me how you think this cop was a bully and a thug. I'm sure her child will be more than happy to hear what you have to say. Go ahead I'm sure that your thoughts will mean a lot to this little girl as she is growing up. As they closed in on the suspect Wednesday afternoon, Wheeler opened fire, prompting police to return gunfire, Schmaderer said. I would need more information than this to determine if a different approach would have saved this life.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on May 31, 2015 22:15:13 GMT -5
I'm in Canada - is that a modern enough country for you to compare?
Our gun laws and processes to possess are stricter here - and our crime rate involving weapons is a LOT lower than that of the US
I have a carry permit. I'm also TRAINED in target shooting. I've handled pistols, rifles and shotguns. I don't carry a weapon in my vehicle unless driving to & from the range or my property in the country. The weapon is LOCKED with a trigger lock and inside a locked case and in the trunk of my vehicle when not locked in a gun safe.
Our gun laws and processes to possess are stricter here - and our crime rate involving weapons is a LOT lower than that of the US.
I've been in guns shops in the US - the process to obtain and possess a registered weapon is a joke.
Buying one on the street is a bigger joke.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on May 31, 2015 22:42:38 GMT -5
Yep- this crazy shit is a problem unique to the USA. We are exceptional for sure- and not in a good way. Eventually there will be enough guns on the street to solve the problem
Reminds me of a Simpsons quote 'Alcohol- the cause of and solution to all life's problems'
Noticed Virgil's data showing all of these increases in crime- in cities pushing the NRA agenda of a gun for everyone and a legal framework to kill someone and get away with it. So how come crime is increasing in all of these cities where an armed society is a polite society? Could it be that the USA is the poster child for failed gun laws and the death that comes with it? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.
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Post by Shooby on Jun 1, 2015 5:40:00 GMT -5
It amazes me how there seems to be a double standard regarding the Death Penalty. Understandably, we don't want to execute an innocent person. But, I guess Death by Cop doesn't need to meet any standards of justice. And, if the cops say you are Guilty, then you are guilty and that Guilt is worthy of an immediate execution.
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Post by Shooby on Jun 1, 2015 5:51:06 GMT -5
I think choking and killing someone for selling illegal cigarettes is about as egregious as it gets.
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Post by Shooby on Jun 1, 2015 5:55:26 GMT -5
Police should de-escalate situations. Act with cool rationality and take a step back in situations where they can take a step back. They didn't have to rush up to a playground where a 12 yr old boy was SITTING at a picnic table with a plastic gun and shoot him within 15 sec of arriving on the scene and screaming at him when he probably didn't even process what is happening. But, if this is the type of Police force you want in your country, then so be it.
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Post by Shooby on Jun 1, 2015 5:56:39 GMT -5
I think choking and killing someone for selling illegal cigarettes is about as egregious as it gets. But not gunning down a new mother. Great priorities there. Sorry, but you are going to have to link or reference what you are talking about in regards to this so i can respond.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 1, 2015 7:10:09 GMT -5
The 12 year old wasn't sitting at a picnic table. He was waving what appeared to be a weapon and did not put it down. He was a victim of bad parenting. I don't wave anything that looks like a gun EVER without intent to shoot or be shot if I'm that stupid. Being 12 does not give you a pass when it comes to weapons. Plus, he wasn't some tiny 12 year old but a big one. Not that I'd excuse that even. I'm small but when carrying, I'm 6 ft
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 1, 2015 8:19:24 GMT -5
They should shoot the mother******. And when they shoot a person who is not a threat, they need to go to prison. Please point to any post I've ever made that doesn't agree with this...in fact let me help you out. Ive never said differently. In fact, I said the same thing in the thread about the SC (I believe) shooting with the cop who shot the guy in the back. You keep asking questions. I was providing suggestions and answers. I don't understand why you are asking me to support something that I haven't claimed concerning your position.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 1, 2015 8:24:22 GMT -5
Police should de-escalate situations. Act with cool rationality and take a step back in situations where they can take a step back. They didn't have to rush up to a playground where a 12 yr old boy was SITTING at a picnic table with a plastic gun and shoot him within 15 sec of arriving on the scene. ... Correction: within two seconds of arriving on the scene.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 1, 2015 8:32:26 GMT -5
As they closed in on the suspect Wednesday afternoon, Wheeler opened fire, prompting police to return gunfire, Schmaderer said. I would need more information than this to determine if a different approach would have saved this life. You are right the police should never have attempted to serve the arrest warrant. That would have avoided the solution all together. Please don't twist my words. My posting clearly states "approach". The police were doing their job. Could it have been handled in a way that would not have resulted in the tragic death of a police officer? Your link does not provide details which would allow for that assessment.
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