Townhouse Property Lines

[trippypea]

If you have a strip of, let's say, 6 townhouses, would you say that the individual property lines would be where one house stops and the next begins? The property line wouldn't start in FRONT of the next house, would it?

I have a middle townhouse with a driveway and a garage. The driveway extends the width of the garage door, but the garage itself extends a foot beyond the driveway to the exterior wall, just like the garage door on everyone's house. So to me, the property line should be where the house actually ends, not where the driveway ends, right? I always assumed approximately 1 foot of grass on the closest side of my neighbor's lawn was technically mine since it extends in front of my property. He would cut it since it was attached to his (though wouldn't dream of sweeping the grass out of my driveway). However, I recently noticed that he went so far as to rip out the portion of grass nearest the house and put tiny rocks over it (which end up in my driveway because he directs his downspout to flow onto my property), and now has put hanging baskets on poles in the area.

Am I nuts to think he should have asked before doing this?

[simser]

If it's like my townhome (we don't have driveways) I own from the studs inward. I do not own my outside patio (well maybe I do, I have to maintain it, but if something happened with the walls of it, I'd contact the hoa).

If you're concerned, talk to your hoa. They ca advise you.

[Deleted]

OP, It sounds like you have a zero-lot-line townhouse. Simser, yours sounds like a condo townhouse. They are different.

OP, if you search your property on the property assessors site, does it include a link to the plot lines/property lines? In your purchase or escrow/title documentation for the home does it include the plot map? One of those would get you the quickest answer.

Please be aware that if your neighbor is maintaining & improving part of your property in an obvious manner, after a certain number of years they can take that property (adverse possession). You need to be very aware of what your property line is. He may be maintaining or improving to keep a balanced look rather than nefarious reasons.

You can't really do anything until you find out what the actual property line is. 

[The Captain]

You should have received a platt of survey when you purchased the property.  Take a look at that.

[muttleynfelix]

Like others have said, you need to look at the plat.

[Bonny]

May 20, 2015 11:39:09 GMT -5 @rockit said:

OP, It sounds like you have a zero-lot-line townhouse. Simser, yours sounds like a condo townhouse. They are different.

OP, if you search your property on the property assessors site, does it include a link to the plot lines/property lines? In your purchase or escrow/title documentation for the home does it include the plot map? One of those would get you the quickest answer.

Please be aware that if your neighbor is maintaining & improving part of your property in an obvious manner, after a certain number of years they can take that property (adverse possession). You need to be very aware of what your property line is. He may be maintaining or improving to keep a balanced look rather than nefarious reasons.

You can't really do anything until you find out what the actual property line is. 

Be careful here Rockit. While the Adverse Possession process varies from State to State. There are generally a minimum of three requirements and often four. They are open, notorious (hostile, w/o permission) and for a period of years. In CA it also requires the payment of property taxes which almost no one does.

Far more common would be a prescriptive easement which also involves the open, notorious and for a period a years but refers to use versus actual fee ownership.

I ran into this situation several times working for the two Railroads. While Railroads, other utilities and public agencies are often exempt from these claims we did have some risk with what is called non-operating property.

In any case, the easiest solution around this is to grant permission via a license with a 24 hour cancellation clause. I'd send a certified letter (return receipt requested) and we had no issues.

No need to make a big deal out of a simple maintenance issue.

[swamp]

Go look for the survey pins in the yard.

[tskeeter]

May 20, 2015 15:18:24 GMT -5 swamp said:

Go look for the survey pins in the yard.

Another common marker is a small saw cut mark on the curb.  People tend to pull out the survey markers, so some property line are marked on things that are less likely to be removed, such as curbs.

[TheOtherMe]

When I lived in Colorado, somebody one an eminent domain suit and got some of their neighbor's property they had been using as a trail to get to a hiking trail.  Do check on him using it once you find out where the property lines are.  

I'd check with the HOA.  I lived in this kind of townhouse way back when, but the way it was set up, it was very obvious what was each property owners.  After you left your house, you were on your patio.  From there, there was a one car garage and a space for one car to park.  Beside that was about a 3 ft line of cement to your patio gate.  

Good luck.  I had a friend who had to hire a surveyor when she suspected her neighbors had planted bushes on her side of the lot line.  She wanted to put in a fence.  Turns out she was right.  Neighbors were not happy when she took out the bushes and put in a fence.  

[Deleted]

I'm counting on adverse possession to enlarge my sideyard.    This is not a joke.

I moved here 10 years ago.  There is a row of cedar trees on one side and across the back.  You would think those were the property lines, wouldn't you?  I got a survey at closing, but the survey sticks weren't there when I moved in.  I never thought twice about it until six years ago the neighbor put his house up for sale.  He told me the woman who lived in my house cried when he was planting the cedars so he put them several feet within the property line.  That means half of that side yard is theirs if someone wants to put in a fence.

We have cut and maintained that side yard for over ten years now.  I'm not sure if the new guy actually knows where his property lines are.  If he never decides to build a fence, we are cool.  

I don't actually want his property.  I just don't want a fence that far from the cedar row.  There is no way that someone is going to keep that area mowed.

Maybe what someone said about "use" is all I really want




    

[Regis]

May 20, 2015 20:25:22 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

I'm counting on adverse possession to enlarge my sideyard.    This is not a joke.

I moved here 10 years ago.  There is a row of cedar trees on one side and across the back.  You would think those were the property lines, wouldn't you?  I got a survey at closing, but the survey sticks weren't there when I moved in.  I never thought twice about it until six years ago the neighbor put his house up for sale.  He told me the woman who lived in my house cried when he was planting the cedars so he put them several feet within the property line.  That means half of that side yard is theirs if someone wants to put in a fence.

We have cut and maintained that side yard for over ten years now.  I'm not sure if the new guy actually knows where his property lines are.  If he never decides to build a fence, we are cool.  

I don't actually want his property.  I just don't want a fence that far from the cedar row.  There is no way that someone is going to keep that area mowed.

Maybe what someone said about "use" is all I really want




    

If the other owner does not know where the property line is, it's not adverse.  As Bonny pointed out above, there are several elements that must be met to claim adverse possession and judges are hesitant to rule in favor of a claim when not all of those elements are met.  As a surveyor for 28 years and working with attorneys on some of the biggest cases in my state, I've seen less than a handful of adverse possession cases where the claim was deemed to be valid.

[toomuchreality]

May 20, 2015 9:53:21 GMT -5 trippypea said:

If you have a strip of, let's say, 6 townhouses, would you say that the individual property lines would be where one house stops and the next begins? The property line wouldn't start in FRONT of the next house, would it?

I have a middle townhouse with a driveway and a garage. The driveway extends the width of the garage door, but the garage itself extends a foot beyond the driveway to the exterior wall, just like the garage door on everyone's house. So to me, the property line should be where the house actually ends, not where the driveway ends, right? I always assumed approximately 1 foot of grass on the closest side of my neighbor's lawn was technically mine since it extends in front of my property. He would cut it since it was attached to his (though wouldn't dream of sweeping the grass out of my driveway). However, I recently noticed that he went so far as to rip out the portion of grass nearest the house and put tiny rocks over it (which end up in my driveway because he directs his downspout to flow onto my property), and now has put hanging baskets on poles in the area.

Am I nuts to think he should have asked before doing this?

It would have been nice, if he would have mentioned his plans to you, even if it is his property.

What do you plan on doing, if you if it is your property? Anything? Or are you just making yourself crazy, for no particular reason?



Good luck. It doesn't sound like a fun, or easy situation, to deal with. 

[Plain Old Petunia]

May 21, 2015 7:18:51 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

May 20, 2015 9:53:21 GMT -5 trippypea said:

If you have a strip of, let's say, 6 townhouses, would you say that the individual property lines would be where one house stops and the next begins? The property line wouldn't start in FRONT of the next house, would it?

I have a middle townhouse with a driveway and a garage. The driveway extends the width of the garage door, but the garage itself extends a foot beyond the driveway to the exterior wall, just like the garage door on everyone's house. So to me, the property line should be where the house actually ends, not where the driveway ends, right? I always assumed approximately 1 foot of grass on the closest side of my neighbor's lawn was technically mine since it extends in front of my property. He would cut it since it was attached to his (though wouldn't dream of sweeping the grass out of my driveway). However, I recently noticed that he went so far as to rip out the portion of grass nearest the house and put tiny rocks over it (which end up in my driveway because he directs his downspout to flow onto my property), and now has put hanging baskets on poles in the area.

Am I nuts to think he should have asked before doing this?

It would have been nice, if he would have mentioned his plans to you, even if it is his property.

What do you plan on doing, if you if it is your property? Anything? Or are you just making yourself crazy, for no particular reason?



Good luck. It doesn't sound like a fun, or easy situation, to deal with. 

I agree.   I think if your neighbor is maintaining it and making it look nice, what is the issue?   It doesn't sound as though you had any plans to use the bit of ground in question.

[MarleyKeezy78]

Look at the plat and then talk to your neighbor. Hopefully everything works out ok for you. This makes me so happy that we are on good terms with our neighbors, as our houses are close in this city. We just put up our new fence yesterday after neighbor to the one side took down his old fence for us. We didn't argue about property, we just moved our fence in about three inches since the old fence butted up against his driveway. He gets a little more wiggle room for accessing the side of his garage area and we have a very nice fence now. 
Let us know how it goes