Are we civil enough to discuss this issue?

[Value Buy]

We continue to bring various ethnic groups to this country under the guise of humanitarian aid, to come here for a better life and the American dream.
Will they ever assimilate, or are we to issue them their own heritage month here to indoctrinate the unwashed American public?

www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/6-from-minnesota-charged-with-trying-to-join-islamic-state/ar-AAblEeM

Europe has been faced with the same situation and now thousands are crossing the Mediteranean sea, expecting to be "saved" from religious persecution.
Is it time to rethink this issue?

Flame away

[Artemis Windsong]

In my city, the ethnic groups congregate together as they did when our forefathers immigrated.  We are a country of immigrants and their descendants.  They built communities around there common ethnicity.  In those communities they experienced commonality on a lot of levels.

All of us experience the same basic needs of life day to day like sleep, food, shelter, earning a living, the weather.  The differences come in on experience, thinking, reaction, and values.

Fireworks on the 4th of July or any other day won't bother someone who has lived in America their entire lifetime.  Fireworks noise to someone from a war torn country is terrifying as they don't know the difference between fireworks and gun fire.

[zibazinski]

The people of those countries are no happier than we are but like us, their politicians do nothing.

[Deleted]

Eventually everyone will adapt, both natives (I can't think of a better word) and immigrants. Everything evolves and contact with other cultures always has an impact. I can tell cause I was at a sushi restaurant last night in my in the sticks small Canadian city. Assimilation is going to happen for everyone.

[billisonboard]

Apr 20, 2015 19:43:49 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

.. are we to issue them their own heritage month here to indoctrinate the unwashed American public?

...

With that in the OP, I would say the answer to your question is, "No".

[Artemis Windsong]

Isn't trying to join the IS treason?  Unamerican activity?

From where I sit, these wars going on are unprecedented in the number of unprepared countries, and the number of people in refugee camps and fleeing the violence in any way they can.

I'm dismayed and flummoxed.

[mroped]

I was born and raised outside US. Learned English after I got here. Don't even dream in my native language anymore
Many of those that I know that come from the same place as I, live nearby an ethnic comunity just because they feel comfortable or sometimes because of the language barrier.
Some people just have hard time learning a second or third language so they are trying to make it through.

Amongst my friends, here home, there is this guy kinda very redneck. Good man,big heart but he can't stand somebody that doesn't speak English and wants to live here.
As a joke, a few years back, I brought him from somewhere in Florida a T shirt that said:"Welcome to United States! Now, speak English!"
We had a good laugh about it but I had to remind him that the U.S. Constitution doesn't establish English as the official language so he can't get mad at people for not speaking it.

[mroped]

Apr 20, 2015 20:15:53 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

Isn't trying to join the IS treason?  Unamerican activity?

From where I sit, these wars going on are unprecedented in the number of unprepared countries, and the number of people in refugee camps and fleeing the violence in any way they can.

I'm dismayed and flummoxed.

Not everybody has a defense budget as big as US so being unprepared for war or influx of refugees is something that they don't allocate funds for.

[Artemis Windsong]

We allocate too much.  We are the world's welfare system and they hate us for it.

[Value Buy]

Apr 20, 2015 20:28:17 GMT -5 mroped said:

Apr 20, 2015 20:15:53 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

Isn't trying to join the IS treason?  Unamerican activity?

From where I sit, these wars going on are unprecedented in the number of unprepared countries, and the number of people in refugee camps and fleeing the violence in any way they can.

I'm dismayed and flummoxed.

Not everybody has a defense budget as big as US so being unprepared for war or influx of refugees is something that they don't allocate funds for.

why should any country accept large numbers of refugees?
What happened to having legitimate legal immigration?

[djAdvocate]

Apr 20, 2015 22:14:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 20, 2015 20:28:17 GMT -5 mroped said:

Not everybody has a defense budget as big as US so being unprepared for war or influx of refugees is something that they don't allocate funds for.

why should any country accept large numbers of refugees?
What happened to having legitimate legal immigration?

what happened to the milk of human kindness? 

[Value Buy]

Apr 20, 2015 22:21:59 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 20, 2015 22:14:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

why should any country accept large numbers of refugees?
What happened to having legitimate legal immigration?

what happened to the milk of human kindness? 

Yeh, I hear you, but the constant bite the hand that is lifting you up, is getting a little old.

[EVT1]

Apr 20, 2015 19:43:49 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

We continue to bring various ethnic groups to this country under the guise of humanitarian aid, to come here for a better life and the American dream.
Will they ever assimilate, or are we to issue them their own heritage month here to indoctrinate the unwashed American public?

www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/6-from-minnesota-charged-with-trying-to-join-islamic-state/ar-AAblEeM

Europe has been faced with the same situation and now thousands are crossing the Mediteranean sea, expecting to be "saved" from religious persecution.
Is it time to rethink this issue?

Flame away

Assimilate?  Are you Borg?

And false dilemma on your part- we do not assimilate people and we do not issue new heritage months.

If you want to blow up the whole thing because 6 assholes got arrested then I beg you find some perspective.

[Value Buy]

Apr 20, 2015 23:22:39 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Apr 20, 2015 19:43:49 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

We continue to bring various ethnic groups to this country under the guise of humanitarian aid, to come here for a better life and the American dream.
Will they ever assimilate, or are we to issue them their own heritage month here to indoctrinate the unwashed American public?

www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/6-from-minnesota-charged-with-trying-to-join-islamic-state/ar-AAblEeM

Europe has been faced with the same situation and now thousands are crossing the Mediteranean sea, expecting to be "saved" from religious persecution.
Is it time to rethink this issue?

Flame away

Assimilate?  Are you Borg?

And false dilemma on your part- we do not assimilate people and we do not issue new heritage months.

If you want to blow up the whole thing because 6 assholes got arrested then I beg you find some perspective.

Hmnn, the government thesis is refugees will assimilate into the American landscape. Are you saying they sold the citizens of America a false bill of goods with these immigrants?
These were not the first idiots from the Somali refugee immigrants to go to Jihad overseas.
Am I the only one seeing a trend here?

[happyhoix]

Apr 21, 2015 5:49:43 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 20, 2015 23:22:39 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Assimilate?  Are you Borg?

And false dilemma on your part- we do not assimilate people and we do not issue new heritage months.

If you want to blow up the whole thing because 6 assholes got arrested then I beg you find some perspective.

Hmnn, the government thesis is refugees will assimilate into the American landscape. Are you saying they sold the citizens of America a false bill of goods with these immigrants?
These were not the first idiots from the Somali refugee immigrants to go to Jihad overseas.
Am I the only one seeing a trend here?

So six Somali refugees decided to go to Jihad overseas. What percentage of the total Somali immigrant population do you suppose that is?

[happyhoix]

We continue to bring various ethnic groups to this country under the guise of humanitarian aid, to come here for a better life and the American dream.
Will they ever assimilate, or are we to issue them their own heritage month here to indoctrinate the unwashed American public?

My Quaker ancestor on my mom's side immigrated to Pennslyvania in 1670 due to the religious persecution he was facing in Ireland.

My family has assimilated pretty well, though. Almost none of the males in my family look like that guy on the Quaker Oats box. However, some of them want to form a Quaker terrorist cell over here to try to force everyone to become Quaker - because you know how violent us Quakers can be.

I think it's important to remember almost all of us come from people who immigrated here from someplace else.

[chiver78]

Apr 21, 2015 7:02:21 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I think it's important to remember almost all of us come from people who immigrated here from someplace else.

and this moderator wants to thank all of you that have commented so far for being so civil.

[Value Buy]

Thanks for the comment Chiver78.
I agree

[djAdvocate]

Apr 20, 2015 22:35:49 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 20, 2015 22:21:59 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

what happened to the milk of human kindness? 

Yeh, I hear you, but the constant bite the hand that is lifting you up, is getting a little old.

just think how it would work if the SPCA worked that way.

[Angel!]

Apr 20, 2015 19:43:49 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

We continue to bring various ethnic groups to this country under the guise of humanitarian aid, to come here for a better life and the American dream.
Will they ever assimilate, or are we to issue them their own heritage month here to indoctrinate the unwashed American public?

I think that is the question that has been asked regarding immigrants since people started coming to this country. Every generation had some immigrant group that they hated & that wouldn't assimilate & were going to ruin the country. They always assimilate within 1-2 generations & the country doesn't get ruined.

Personally I see nothing wrong with a reasonable amount of immigration. That is how all my ancestors got here, so why should I hate others just trying to do the same for their families.

[zibazinski]

Did your ancestors come over legally?

[bean29]

www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/04/21/blogger-isil-militants-boats/26117261/

LONDON — A few months ago, before Islamic State militants beheaded 21 Egyptian Coptic Christians on a Libyan beach, a blogger sympathetic to the group saw an opportunity for fighters to infiltrate Europe via the Mediterranean Sea.

The blogger, who goes by the name Abu Arhim al-Libim, wrote a post on JustPaste.it encouraging militants to pose as migrants on boats, according to an extremism researcher in London who discovered the piece.

"If this was even partially exploited and developed strategically, pandemonium could be wrought in the southern European states," al-Libim wrote.

[weltschmerz]

BEIRUT and LONDON — Islamic State of Iraq & Al-Sham jihadists are planning to take over Libya as a “gateway” to wage war across southern Europe, according to letters written by supporters of the terrorist group.

They hope to flood the North African state with militiamen from Syria and Iraq, who will sail across the Mediterranean posing as migrants on human-trafficking ships, according to plans seen by Quilliam, the British anti-extremist group.

The fighters would then run amok in southern European cities and also try to attack shipping.

news.nationalpost.com/news/world/isis-planning-to-use-libya-as-gateway-to-wage-war-across-europe-document

[Angel!]

Apr 21, 2015 10:50:06 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Did your ancestors come over legally?

Probably not all of them. There is too many to say one way or another and I don't know the stories on every one.  At least a few came over during the potato famine, not sure what the laws were back them, but the Irish certainly weren't loved when they came here. 

Then I know one ancestor smuggled here aboard a ship, so that probably wasn't legal.  Hey, it was his dude Francis Goward, someone wrote a book about them .  Our family's story had always been his uncle knocked him out & put him on the ship to steal his inheritance.  Who knows if that is true.  Then his wife was the granddaughter of a guy that was serving on a British ship that stopped in Boston (see pg 17 of the same book).  He got permission to go ashore & he just never reported back to his ship.  Not sure the legality of that.  But, then I don't know what the rules were back in the 1700s.  Actually we still would have been a British colony, so yeah, it probably wasn't legal to just not report back to the service.

That's all I can recall off the top of my head.  I have a entire notebook filled with genealogy notes at home that I might look through tonight out of curiosity.  IIRC, all except one of my great-great grandparents was born in this country.  Most of my family goes back a pretty long time.

[mroped]

Legal immigration following the whole process would be the ideal way to go. However, there are circumstances in which one is forced to resort to illegal entering and I'm not talking about the ones that are coming over the border looking for a job but about those that are forced by the conditions/problems in their place of origin and what the returning home might do to them.

i bet that most of those that decided to "go back and join the Holly Jihad" immigrated legally.
Most of those that come here illegally and then become legal come generaly speaking looking for a better life so would defy the purpose of having to go through an interminable process that sometimes seems downright stupid just so they can pick up and go back where they came from.

It is easier for a bad character to obtain a visa or permanent residency in the US or any other country than to do it in an illegal way. 
Entering a country, US for example, illegally carries many risks: being caught and end up in INS detention for an undetermined period of time, being rejected by an INS judge and be put on a plane ride back home.
Does anyone think that if say ISIS decides to send a few so called "warriors " here, they will try it illegally?
Don't think so; that would carry to many risks. Going to an embassy, bribing one of the officials a hefty sum that can't be refused is much easier! And there is always one looking to make a quick, easy buck.

[Angel!]

Apr 21, 2015 11:34:42 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Apr 21, 2015 10:50:06 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Did your ancestors come over legally?

Probably not all of them. There is too many to say one way or another and I don't know the stories on every one.  At least a few came over during the potato famine, not sure what the laws were back them, but the Irish certainly weren't loved when they came here. 

Then I know one ancestor smuggled here aboard a ship, so that probably wasn't legal.  Hey, it was his dude Francis Goward, someone wrote a book about them .  Our family's story had always been his uncle knocked him out & put him on the ship to steal his inheritance.  Who knows if that is true.  Then his wife was the granddaughter of a guy that was serving on a British ship that stopped in Boston (see pg 17 of the same book).  He got permission to go ashore & he just never reported back to his ship.  Not sure the legality of that.  But, then I don't know what the rules were back in the 1700s.  Actually we still would have been a British colony, so yeah, it probably wasn't legal to just not report back to the service.

That's all I can recall off the top of my head.  I have a entire notebook filled with genealogy notes at home that I might look through tonight out of curiosity.  IIRC, all except one of my great-great grandparents was born in this country.  Most of my family goes back a pretty long time.

This is totally OT, but I love the internet.  Was curious about the Francis Goward inheritance thing, so just googled "Francis Goward inheritance" & got this as the first result www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/goward/7/

Francis Goward was my family patriarch.He was hit over the head and placed in a leather sack and placed on a ship for America because of an inheritance he was to get.Apparently, Francis' uncles didn't like the idea of him getting all or even sharing in the inheritance and sent him to America to get rid of him.

I don't even have a clue who this guy is & how I might be related to him, but his family has the same story as mine.  Doesn't make it true, but does mean my parents didn't just make up the story, it goes back quite a long ways.  I should get back into this genealogy stuff.  The internet nowadays makes it so easy to find stuff.

[chiver78]

Apr 21, 2015 10:50:06 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Did your ancestors come over legally?

Yup. Dad still carries a green card, in fact. Mom's side all went through Ellis Island, and the paperwork is kicking around in someone's archives.

I'm all for legal immigration. what makes me nuts is when ignorant people assume that all immigrants are illegal and/or can't speak English. another thing that makes me nuts is when ignorant people don't understand the rules surrounding children of immigrants (legal and not) and *their* citizenship eligibility - for example, I was born on US soil but have dual citizenship due to Canada's policies allowing citizenship to children of citizen parents. I have been (incorrectly) called an anchor baby, more than once, in the middle of heated discussions about immigration with people whose opinions I don't happen to share. I will say that those are the arguments I have to just walk away from.

[happyhoix]

Apr 21, 2015 10:50:06 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Did your ancestors come over legally?

My Scottish ancestor got kidnapped by the British Navy in Glascow and forced to work as a sailor, until he was able to escape in an American port. That seems pretty illegal.

One of my English ancestors got kicked out of England when he was 13 and shipped to the States as a criminal, because he got caught poaching deer on the King's land. Apparently that was legal at the time, although not very nice.

When my Quaker ancestor came over in 1670, I don't think the native Americans could have been that happy about these pasty faced invaders taking over, but the whites ignored them and whatever laws they had and came anyway, which seems pretty illegal.

So I would have to say, mostly, my ancestors came here illegally, in one way or another.

[zibazinski]

My Dad and his siblings came over legally. At least my Dad said they did! But he told enough stories about how you had to be healthy, not a criminal, and not a "public charge." In other words, no welfare. He did avail himself, as did many others, of the free English classes so he could learn the language. He did not avail himself of the free education even though he was only 14 because he supported his older siblings through secretarial school, the two oldest sisters of 18 and 20, plus his 16 year old brother. The brother went through high school, college, then law school on the back of my Dad and his two older sisters after they got jobs. Became a bank president in Chicago. The successful immigrant Dream. Dad also became successful but always told me that with an 8th grade education, he'd have never made it anywhere else but the USA.