utility companies and your SSN

[chiver78]

I set up my new utility accounts this morning. what a PITA.....but it's another box checked. come on, 1/21!

why is it that utility companies want your SSN? they aren't extending credit, they are charging you for goods/services after they are received.  is there really that much fraud in utility non-payments?

[The Captain]

Yes. 

And yes, they are extending you credit because they are providing the goods/services before payment.

[resolution]

They run a quick credit check, and if you fail then you have to pay a deposit before they will connect your service.

[zibazinski]

My tenants decided to not pay their utility bills. I'm glad the companies had deposits and their socials. I'd have made it right to the companies but I'm glad I don't have to. Unfortunately the sewer bill attaches to the property so I have to pay that one.

[chiver78]

Jan 14, 2015 13:39:18 GMT -5 The Captain said:

And yes, they are extending you credit because they are providing the goods/services before payment.

so is a restaurant.

I wasn't asked for a deposit, even after I provided copies of ID - still no SSN. what gets me is that I have had recent accounts with still-active online login profiles with both companies (from the old condo) and they still required new IDs for me to start the new accounts.

[Deleted]

I suppose they're just trying to get as much info as possible.   In cold climates they can't turn off the utilities in the winter even if you're not paying so people could rack up quite a bill and then vacate the place. 

[sapphire12]

When I bought my house, the electric company wanted a copy of my credit report or they would charge me a deposit. What is even sillier is the mortgage company didn't want to give me a copy of my credit report. Umm, you've already approved my mortgage and I paid for my credit report that you possess. My realtor was able to get it from them. Sheesh.

The electric company was the only utility I remember having to do this.

[Tiny]

Could it be the utility is reporting your payment/non payment so it will appear on your Credit Report?   They'd need a SSN for that.

I think there was a change/movement to push for having at least some utilities provide info for this - so someone who maybe doesn't have a credit card or who hasn't taken out a loan but is paying their utilities successfully will have some sort of something that can be checked when they go to get credit (or for the insurance companies to check) whatever?   I think it was suppose to help youngsters just starting out (if they could successfully rent an apartment and pay their utilities on time and in full) as it would show up on their credit report.  It would also help someone rebuilding credit OR someone older who wasn't using much in the way of Credit Cards and loans.



 I know the local natural gas company shows up on my Credit Report. 

[Baby Fawkes]

I had to pay a deposit to the water company when we moved into the house we are renting. In the last place they took our SSN and told us all was fine. That wasn't even an option for us with the water company. Not sure why but they didn't even ask for the SSN and just automatically took a $180 deposit. Personally I don't care because it's not a lot of money and I'll be getting it credited back to the account in a few months anyway, but I was surprised that they only presented that option to us.

[NoNamePerson]

Interesting. I've always just transferred utilities from one residence to another. But it has always been in the same city so maybe that is the difference.

Having lived in an all electric apt for three years then building house with gas the gas company wanted a deposit. I questioned the lady and she said that the gas company would take a letter from electric company stating prompt payment. So gas company waived deposit. Never been asked for my SS# ever.

[hoops902]

Jan 14, 2015 13:47:22 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jan 14, 2015 13:39:18 GMT -5 The Captain said:

And yes, they are extending you credit because they are providing the goods/services before payment.

so is a restaurant.

I wasn't asked for a deposit, even after I provided copies of ID - still no SSN. what gets me is that I have had recent accounts with still-active online login profiles with both companies (from the old condo) and they still required new IDs for me to start the new accounts.

Yes, but at a restaurant they aren't required to keep feeding you over and over and over simply because it's a specific time of year.  A restaurant isn't letting you eat there for a month, then start eating there for another month before they ever ask you for payment.  A restaurant has you physically present to monitor whether you leave prior to paying and not doing so is criminal.

[chiver78]

Jan 14, 2015 14:17:04 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Could it be the utility is reporting your payment/non payment so it will appear on your Credit Report?   They'd need a SSN for that.

I think there was a change/movement to push for having at least some utilities provide info for this - so someone who maybe doesn't have a credit card or who hasn't taken out a loan but is paying their utilities successfully will have some sort of something that can be checked when they go to get credit (or for the insurance companies to check) whatever?   I think it was suppose to help youngsters just starting out (if they could successfully rent an apartment and pay their utilities on time and in full) as it would show up on their credit report.  It would also help someone rebuilding credit OR someone older who wasn't using much in the way of Credit Cards and loans.



 I know the local natural gas company shows up on my Credit Report. 

interesting. I suppose that would help someone just starting out. my credit history's fairly well established by now, I didn't think of that.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

When I wanted my electricity turned on at my last place, I had to ante up my SS.  I balked and what it boiled down to is if I wanted power, I needed to give them my SSN.  This is despite the fact that my other utilities sent a reference to them.  I didn't have to pay a deposit, but I did have to provide them means to ding me if I tried screwed them out of their services.

[chiver78]

since when has this become a requirement, though? it's like cell phones - I've been a customer with the same provider long enough that I didn't need to provide mine back then and have managed to avoid providing it since then. someone said in here that her utility company appears on her credit report. I always thought that the utilities didn't report. of course, that could just be that they can't report on me b/c they don't have mine.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jan 14, 2015 18:28:15 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

since when has this become a requirement, though? it's like cell phones - I've been a customer with the same provider long enough that I didn't need to provide mine back then and have managed to avoid providing it since then. someone said in here that her utility company appears on her credit report. I always thought that the utilities didn't report. of course, that could just be that they can't report on me b/c they don't have mine.

I was required to provide mine in 2000, I don't remember the time before that though.

Utility departments DO report.  They may not report positive information, but they will report negative information.

[chiver78]

wow, that far back. interesting. I remember providing alternate ID back in 2006 when I bought my most recent condo, can't recall it being a problem when I bought my first condo (2002) but I wouldn't have given my SSN then either. I don't remember whether it was asked for or not.

as far as reporting, I guess I learned something new today.

[Formerly SK]

Jan 14, 2015 13:52:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I suppose they're just trying to get as much info as possible.   In cold climates they can't turn off the utilities in the winter even if you're not paying so people could rack up quite a bill and then vacate the place. 

I wonder, though.  If you have horrible credit can a utility company not allow you to set up an account?  I mean, they are the only provider in an area.  If your score is 367, can they say "Sorry, no heat for you." 

[Baby Fawkes]

Jan 14, 2015 18:55:44 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

Jan 14, 2015 13:52:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I suppose they're just trying to get as much info as possible.   In cold climates they can't turn off the utilities in the winter even if you're not paying so people could rack up quite a bill and then vacate the place. 

I wonder, though.  If you have horrible credit can a utility company not allow you to set up an account?  I mean, they are the only provider in an area.  If your score is 367, can they say "Sorry, no heat for you." 

I don't think they are allowed to do that. They can require you to put up some sort of deposit and they can probably alter the payment setup if they really needed to, but I don't think they can outright deny you.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jan 14, 2015 18:55:44 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

Jan 14, 2015 13:52:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I suppose they're just trying to get as much info as possible.   In cold climates they can't turn off the utilities in the winter even if you're not paying so people could rack up quite a bill and then vacate the place. 

I wonder, though.  If you have horrible credit can a utility company not allow you to set up an account?  I mean, they are the only provider in an area.  If your score is 367, can they say "Sorry, no heat for you." 

They must be able to, how many stories have we heard about parents putting utilities in their kids name as they cannot open accounts in their own?

[Tiny]

Jan 14, 2015 18:55:44 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

Jan 14, 2015 13:52:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I suppose they're just trying to get as much info as possible.   In cold climates they can't turn off the utilities in the winter even if you're not paying so people could rack up quite a bill and then vacate the place. 

I wonder, though.  If you have horrible credit can a utility company not allow you to set up an account?  I mean, they are the only provider in an area.  If your score is 367, can they say "Sorry, no heat for you." 

I would think someone with a low score might have an interesting time finding an apartment to rent - I hear most landlords run a credit check (and verify employment).    
Anyways, I suspect maybe the utility wouldn't say 'sorry, no heat for you' but rather "hey, no heat for you until you pay that outstanding amount from the last time you had an apartment/house'  OR "Hey, you've got a sucky score, but you don't owe us money - so maybe you need to pay us a really big 'deposit' or 'activation fee' as a sign of good faith - and then you can have heat".   (as has been noted in other threads - it's expensive to be poor)

I suspect once someone's into 'public housing' or has some sort of housing voucher they've probably got some way to indicate this to the utilities and get routed down a special path to get things started.  

I could be totally off base.
 

[Tiny]

Jan 14, 2015 19:16:51 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jan 14, 2015 18:55:44 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

I wonder, though.  If you have horrible credit can a utility company not allow you to set up an account?  I mean, they are the only provider in an area.  If your score is 367, can they say "Sorry, no heat for you." 

They must be able to, how many stories have we heard about parents putting utilities in their kids name as they cannot open accounts in their own?

I often read about people who are in a house without electricity or water (and sometimes natural gas - if it got shut off during the spring/summer).  They get the utility started ok, but then fall so far behind the service gets shut off.    Once the service is off - you're pretty much screwed unless you've got the $$ to get it all going again.

FWIW:  For my local rental electricity and natural gas are totally in the renters names.  If they get the power or gas shut off  - it's all on them.  The water bill is in their name as well - but the City sends a copy of the bill to me every quarter - and there's some sort of legalese involved where if they don't pay the bill - I (as the landlord) will be billed.        

The electric company and gas company have me as the "landlord" for the house/meters - so I can see online if the bills are paid or if there are problems.  I don't get any sort of bill or online notification about the renters bill/account - I just have access to high level meter/paid not paid info.   The renters can also log in and see their detail for their meters (but not my primary house).  They are "renters" and I'm a "landlord". 
 
 I have next to no idea how the utilities work for the out of state Condo in the Sun - when my original tenant left (they came with the purchase of the condo)  I did switch all the utilities over to my name - and I think I registered as a "landlord" for a couple of them.   The property manager I hired was very helpful with directing me and telling me what I needed and what to expect.    At this point the new tenants are billed for everything.  I have little online access.  I think because I'm registered as the 'landlord' and owner of the property - when the tenants leave - I will either transfer it all back to me OR if I have new tenants already lined up it will transfer over to them without me being a 'middle man'.

[Baby Fawkes]

Ah, that's very likely true that you can fall behind and get the service shut off. I don't have any solid knowledge so I could easily be wrong, but I don't know if they can initially refuse the service at all if it's a utility and they are the only provider. They could probably make you put down a massive deposit though, which is possibly a serious problem for people with bad credit to come up with that deposit in the first place.

[zibazinski]

Sticking the utility companies is never a good idea. In fact, if you are on HOUSING, that is one of the few ways you can lose it, not paying your utility bills. Trashing the rental doesn't count anymore. It used to.

[Sam_2.0]

Jan 14, 2015 13:36:06 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I set up my new utility accounts this morning. what a PITA.....but it's another box checked. come on, 1/21!

why is it that utility companies want your SSN? they aren't extending credit, they are charging you for goods/services after they are received.  is there really that much fraud in utility non-payments?

There is more fraud than you would like to think. I see it daily And a residential bill can be several hundred dollars per month. You would not believe the number of accounts i deal with that have residential balances over $1,000.

[Sam_2.0]

Jan 14, 2015 13:47:22 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jan 14, 2015 13:39:18 GMT -5 The Captain said:

And yes, they are extending you credit because they are providing the goods/services before payment.

so is a restaurant.

I wasn't asked for a deposit, even after I provided copies of ID - still no SSN. what gets me is that I have had recent accounts with still-active online login profiles with both companies (from the old condo) and they still required new IDs for me to start the new accounts.

Utilities, at least in our state, have to verify even existing accounts to prevent fraud when transferring service. Sometimes a credit check is run for a deposit, but i know thats not allowed in KS or MO for companies covered by the PUCs unless the customer already has a bad payment history or some type of fraud/diversion.

[Sam_2.0]

Jan 14, 2015 19:16:51 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jan 14, 2015 18:55:44 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

I wonder, though.  If you have horrible credit can a utility company not allow you to set up an account?  I mean, they are the only provider in an area.  If your score is 367, can they say "Sorry, no heat for you." 

They must be able to, how many stories have we heard about parents putting utilities in their kids name as they cannot open accounts in their own?

That happens when mom/dad already owes $3000 and has skipped out on paying. Usually pays the first installment on a cold weather plan, rides out the winter without paying because they know its too cold to disconnect, gets an arrangement or some assistance in April to stay disconnection until May or June, depending on the timing. Lets it get shut off and rides it out living with friends until Oct when they make a partial payment (usually LIHEAP funds) and start all over.

[whoisjohngalt]

Do you know who else wants SSN?

COMCAST!!!  I didn't think I needed more reasons to hate that company and yet, they gave me one anyway!

[chiver78]

Jan 14, 2015 20:38:02 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Do you know who else wants SSN?

COMCAST!!!  I didn't think I needed more reasons to hate that company and yet, they gave me one anyway!

don't get me started. I tried to hook that service up after starting this thread, and couldn't get past the screen where it was a required field, no matter what the "live chat" guy told me. I called on my way home from work, and even though I'm a past customer (who hadn't shared it back then) I can't start new svc without it.

I've got a voicemail on my phone now, I'll retrieve in the am - it's the C/S operator I spoke with tonight, leaving his direct line. I will be heading to the office near my own to show a photo ID that doesn't include my SSN, to open a "new case" ticket, and then I'll call his direct line to finish the process. apparently, opening a new account in person at an office doesn't mean that you can take advantage of the pricing advertised on the website. go figure.

unfortunately, comcrap is the ONLY cable provider on the Cape. believe me, I looked for anyone else today.

[NastyWoman]

from uncle Google (www.identityhawk.com/Who-Can-Lawfully-Request-My-Social-Security-Number):

"Who has the right to request your SSN? Federal law mandates that state Departments of Motor Vehicles, tax authorities, welfare offices, and other governmental agencies request your SS number as proof that you are who you claim to be. However, the Privacy Act of 1974 requires that government agencies at the local, state, and federal level disclose to each person whether submitting your Social Security number is required, details on the use of this information, and what law or authority requires its use.

Please note that this Act stipulates that no one can deny you a government service or benefit for failing to provide your SSN unless federal law specifically requires it. ..."

[Sam_2.0]

Utility companies should have a way to verify identify without ssn. We do it with two forms of ID and a birth date. Most people fax us a license....that has their ssn on it. Lol! If someone refuses ID or ssn we charge a deposit and it has to be paid in cash prior to starting service.