Direction.....

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I have a cousin who lives in a fly over state, in a VERY small town and job opportunities are small. He is not college material, but did manage to graduate HS. He has an older brother that, with the same opportunities, has done well. He apprenticed out as a pipe fitter, and travels all over doing work.

I watch my cousin floundering, and it is really hard to watch. He's a good kid, but just does not make very good choices and when those bad choices come back and bite him in the butt, he is all 'woe is me'. Only problem is that he is not a kid anymore, he's either 30 or damn close to it.  I know his parents would bust their butt to help him out - his dad owns a very well respected mechanic business and has made money hand over fist the last 40 years.  He wants to retire, and I know in a heartbeat he'd love to turn it over to his son, but son has no interest - other than detailing cars for him for extra money.

I suspect he really wants his brother's life. He's married, has a couple of adorable kids, his wife works and they do very well for themselves.  But they work, have a direction and I think that this is the younger brother's problem. He has no direction.

So I was thinking.....how does one get direction?    Are you born with it?  What drives you to want to do something?  All that I can do is look at how it relates to my own life.  I had a direction, a place where I wanted to get to and was working for it.  My life turned on a dime, I couldn't go in that direction anymore, so I sat back and regrouped.  I looked at the opportunities around, and what my strengths and weaknesses are.  I knew that whatever career path I needed to take, it MUST be sedentary.  I know that I am good with technical detail.  I looked at what the local industries are, and what was needed....and all of these factored into my decision as to where to go.  4 months into the program,  I know undoubtedly that this is the right choice for me, and as much as I am bitching about the amount of work that I need to do this next week, I'm enjoying life a bit more than when I did nothing in a drug induced haze (which I don't understand either.....I don't like seeing life in a fog so why is it so appealing?).

When I could legitimately not work, why do I want to go back so bad?  Do you need direction?  Does direction make you more successful?  Does direction = luck?

Now, does someone want to finish my drafting final project, do the written and application exam for my computer class and do the 3 CAD assignments I am behind because I spent 20+ hours the last few weeks working on the final project for my CAD class?

[justme]

I honestly wonder if all the love what you do trope is causing some of this. They see what they have to do to earn a good living and it's not fun or their passion so they languish working just enough and spend the rest of their time doing fun or their passion.

I'm of a don't hate what you do, work to play mind frame. A LOT of people ask me if I love my job and most look at me weird when I say I like it well enough and has some good points. What I like most about it is I don't hate it (most days) and it gives me a good bit of money to do what I love and want to do. It's very hard to make what I make doing what my passions are.

I'm not sure if I was born this way or my parents helped it along (when I was young my mom did point out teachers don't make much when I wanted to be one) but I remember even when I was young not wanting to pursue my creative leanings as a profession and be a starving artist. Always had the thought that I'd get a good job that let me have money for my creative stuff (and dream that I'd somehow make it big that way lol).

[Opti]

 I think there are many different personalities and some of them are not

blessed with direction.

[Bonny]

Do you think your cousin has an issue because his dad and bro are successful and he thinks he can never match it or do you think he's lazy?

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Our younger son ha no direction. He is college material. He would rather, at this point age 24, work minimally and have very little ammenities in his life. He wants everything handed to him and simply doesn't want to work for it. I've recently decided that he does have the life that he wants and is therefore successful. His life is not what I want for me. He has made his choice. 

[973beachbum]

People do sometimes grow up or figure out that what they wanted at 25 isn't what they want for the rest of their lives though.

I know a few that worked menial jobs until most of their twenties were up.  They realized that their lives were not going to be what they wanted if they didn't do something.  One went back to college at 32 and the other switched careers to be more mgmt and indoors.

So while it won't happen for everyone it does sometimes.

[giramomma]

I'm wondering how purpose and how responsibility fits in to direction.

I would much prefer to not work, but to do other things that provide me with purpose. I'm not particularly driven, but I am particularly responsible. Therefore, I am postponing doing things that would fill me with purpose so that my family has basic needs and a few wants met.

I wonder, also how much self-actualization has to do with it.

Most people in their 20's are not self-actualized. When I was 19, I dated a 25+ year old person, who had no idea who he was. He did tell me he felt it was rare that I knew what made myself tick, to some extent... I think, by the time a person is 40 or older, they know themselves much better.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 6, 2014 12:13:15 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Do you think your cousin has an issue because his dad and bro are successful and he thinks he can never match it or do you think he's lazy?

I don't know.  It might be a bit of both.  My cousin is incredibly charming, he finds something and goes whole hog at it.  Then he winds up disappointed and drops it altogether.  This seems to happen in both jobs and relationships.

I know that he had a very good car detailing business and he probably could have done well with it.  As his dad has a garage, so he could even do a lot of it inside during the winter.  He did this for awhile, and has seemed to drop it.  He was working as a packer/mover for a moving company and something happened there where that came to a screeching halt.  I suspect drugs had something to do with it, because I know one of his relationships (at about the same time) went kaput when he lost that job.  He was stealing his GF's narcotics (she had some sort of condition that she turned out having surgery for later), and that blew up.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 6, 2014 12:57:23 GMT -5 CCL said:

Dec 6, 2014 12:41:26 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I don't know.  It might be a bit of both.  My cousin is incredibly charming, he finds something and goes whole hog at it.  Then he winds up disappointed and drops it altogether.  This seems to happen in both jobs and relationships.

I know that he had a very good car detailing business and he probably could have done well with it.  As his dad has a garage, so he could even do a lot of it inside during the winter.  He did this for awhile, and has seemed to drop it.  He was working as a packer/mover for a moving company and something happened there where that came to a screeching halt.  I suspect drugs had something to do with it, because I know one of his relationships (at about the same time) went kaput when he lost that job.  He was stealing his GF's narcotics (she had some sort of condition that she turned out having surgery for later), and that blew up.

I am not trying to judge, but maybe this has something to do with it? It seems like a lot of the kids just don't get the connection. They think this kind of stuff doesn't affect them. Or a lot of the younger guys spend way too much time (like all night) playing video games, sleep all day, then are too tired to work. They seem to lose their motivation. They just don't put 2 and 2 together for some reason. I'm just speaking from personal experience.

I really don't think my cousin is that much into video games, the only 'computer' he has is a smart phone.  I do wonder what the drug issue is now.  Last time I was there, I was warned that I might want to keep my narcotics on my person rather than leave them in my purse.  Is his lack of motivation/direction due to his drug use?  I don't think so.  It hasn't helped things, but he was this way before he started dipping into his GF's narcotics.  It was after that that he started detailing cars, and then let that business fall away.

[Tiny]

Dec 6, 2014 12:57:23 GMT -5 CCL said:

Dec 6, 2014 12:41:26 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I don't know.  It might be a bit of both.  My cousin is incredibly charming, he finds something and goes whole hog at it.  Then he winds up disappointed and drops it altogether.  This seems to happen in both jobs and relationships.

I know that he had a very good car detailing business and he probably could have done well with it.  As his dad has a garage, so he could even do a lot of it inside during the winter.  He did this for awhile, and has seemed to drop it.  He was working as a packer/mover for a moving company and something happened there where that came to a screeching halt.  I suspect drugs had something to do with it, because I know one of his relationships (at about the same time) went kaput when he lost that job.  He was stealing his GF's narcotics (she had some sort of condition that she turned out having surgery for later), and that blew up.

I am not trying to judge, but maybe this has something to do with it? It seems like a lot of the kids just don't get the connection. They think this kind of stuff doesn't affect them. Or a lot of the younger guys spend way too much time (like all night) playing video games, sleep all day, then are too tired to work. They seem to lose their motivation. They just don't put 2 and 2 together for some reason. I'm just speaking from personal experience.

I do think drugs or even just the need to hang with a particular group of people (because they identify with that group?) plays a part.  I'm beginning to think there are two kinds of 'addicts' the ones who can successfully manage their life while high/drunk (or can manage with only getting high/drunk on the weekends) and those who can't.    The addiction takes a toll on the former (they miss opportunities but it doesn't sink their ship for instance) it dooms the later.  

The same goes if you have to stick with a group of people who 'value' different things then you do.   You can't reach your full potential unless you break with the group.  That group might be loved ones or just the 'group' you identify with.     I wanted to actually 'do stuff' when I was a teen - so when I realized that cutting school with a group of 'friends' meant we were just gonna go sit at someone's house and raid the liquor cabinet and 'bond' I was like - no, that's ok, this activity is pretty one that happens at my house everyday (alcoholic father).   I think I'd rather do something else if I'm gonna get in trouble for missing school.  I lost a group of 'friends' that day.

I think there is some truth to the decrees our parents give us about choosing our friends carefully and/or about how to think for ourselves and not be a leeming (the old "If all your friends jumped off a cliff - would you? - No, you can't go away for that weekend concert that's a 21 and over show - you are only 16 - I don't care if all your friends are going!"  

I'm not saying that drinking/partying with your friends is bad as teen.  Lots of people have forged livelong friendships from the bonding and they all have had successful lives.   I'm saying that sometimes you fall in with 'losers' and if you aren't careful you become one as well - without much effort.

[ArchietheDragon]

Dec 6, 2014 12:26:56 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Our younger son ha no direction. He is college material. He would rather, at this point age 24, work minimally and have very little ammenities in his life. He wants everything handed to him and simply doesn't want to work for it. I've recently decided that he does have the life that he wants and is therefore successful. His life is not what I want for me. He has made his choice. 

That is my brother, too.   Happy to earn little and have little.

[Deleted]

It doesn't sound like cloe's brother is ok having little though, as he wants others to provide stuff.

I do think it's a perfectly acceptable option to have direction which does not include lots of money... I think you still live within what you make though.

[msventoux]

I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up.  I'm essentially lazy and none of the things I really like to do would lead to a career with a good wage. 

I knew unequivocally that I never wanted to be dependent on someone and the relationships that were modeled for me growing up were completely unacceptable.  I also knew that financial security was important to me.  So I looked at what I could do and what working conditions would be acceptable and got a job in that field.  I didn't absolutely hate it, so I went ahead and got a degree in that field and professional certifications.   There were many years where I only had a couple of days off in a year as I was working two jobs and going to school.  It completely sucked, but the alternatives were much worse.

A lot of it may be personality and family dynamics.  I knew that no one would look after me so I had to take the initiative to get where I wanted to be.  I could undoubtedly be further in my career if I worked harder, but more money and more responsibility aren't important to me at this stage of my life.  I have all of my needs met and most of my wants, and I still work damn hard during certain periods of the year.  Having a life outside of work is important to me too.  My family also never expected me to amount to much, so I went the opposite direction.  The cousin may have felt pressure to live up to the successful dad and brother and went the opposite direction as well. 

[finnime]

Maybe your cousin would benefit from leaving his hometown, going to a completely different area. He has not found the thing that rings his bells where he is, but the world is big. I believe for virtually everyone there is some source of real satisfaction: some pursuit that makes life make sense. For some, it is right there in the seat next to them in second grade. For others, education or the navy or a neighbor or a book help point the way.

Is there somewhere else in the country he could go that would be useful? Americorps? Help an elderly relative in Florida? Go to Chicago or San Antonio and tutor adults in English? Work for the U.S. Dept of the Interior, and rebuild rock walls in parks or fight wild fires? Come here and learn to fight chemical fires? A lot of doors open when you start moving.

[billisonboard]

I walked onto a Challenge (Ropes) Course for the first time when I was in my early thirties. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 7, 2014 11:16:04 GMT -5 finnime said:

Maybe your cousin would benefit from leaving his hometown, going to a completely different area. He has not found the thing that rings his bells where he is, but the world is big. I believe for virtually everyone there is some source of real satisfaction: some pursuit that makes life make sense. For some, it is right there in the seat next to them in second grade. For others, education or the navy or a neighbor or a book help point the way.

Is there somewhere else in the country he could go that would be useful? Americorps? Help an elderly relative in Florida? Go to Chicago or San Antonio and tutor adults in English? Work for the U.S. Dept of the Interior, and rebuild rock walls in parks or fight wild fires? Come here and learn to fight chemical fires? A lot of doors open when you start moving.

I have actually suggested this to him before in the past and he blew it off..  But I think that he is afraid.  Then last year he posted on FB that he was going to move to a nearby large town, and I thought that was a great idea and told him so, but nothing ever came of it.  I suspect the problem is leaving his comfort zone....even though it was only about 40 miles down the road!

Moving can be scary the first time you go out on your own, and you lose your adjacent support.  I wonder if there is a point in a young adult's life where moving becomes even more difficult.  I have a friend in another very small town who is dealing with this with her son.  However, he does have talents and works...but for his dad.  Kid is unhappy, and wants to leave, and they have offered to support him for a year to go somewhere else to get established, but I think he is also too comfortable.  Both are males, both around the same age.  Both younger sibs with older brothers who are doing well, with very successful dads.  A lot of similarities.....

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

His living situation is good.  His dad owns the house next door to the one he lives in (house used to be dad's, living next to his elderly mom when she was alive and he inherited it).  

For a long time, his dad rented it out and when the renters left, it needed a lot of work one on it.  So cousin moved into the house nd did the work.  He has done an incredible job on it too.

Undoubtedly, his living situation is making it harder to move too.

[Deleted]

Dec 7, 2014 21:09:25 GMT -5 @patstab said:

I still think the draft was a good thing. It helped boys become men and it was only for 2 years not a lifetime. In many cases it gave them a career they could follow or helped pay for schooling so they could get a degree. Also in those 2 years they got a chance to grow up.

Our son was floundering didn't know what he wanted. He tested into a specialty in the military, signed up for 5 years of all things and stuck with it. Needless to say hubby and I were surprised. He ended up being in 10 years, got his degree, got a good job. Best thing

he ever did.  Also broadens their horizons, allows them to see other worlds.

Or kills them.

[busymom]

I like the idea of him moving elsewhere. And yes, I agree the drugs he used might have done some damage to his brain. Getting away from the group he is hanging out with would probably be a good start...

This probably sounds off the wall, but has he considered working in the oil fields in North Dakota? Some of the kids here who don't want to go to college are moving out there, & making crazy amounts of money. The problem is, if he's too bored out there, he may go back to using again. But, the money is great, & he could at least compete with his dad's & brother's success.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think some people are born with direction, some have to learn it/find it and others never have it.

I've shared quite a bit about my brother. He seemed destined to live in my parents basement forever. He's not college material and doesn't have a lot of ambition drive.

My dad could easily get him a job in the car parts industry around here, but I think it was hard for him to be "so and so's" son and he felt like people were watching him/judging him. He felt like everyone was waiting for him to screw up so they could report it to my dad.

Things changed recently when he got a job offer out in Boulder. The motel my parents have stayed in since their honeymoon was looking for a night clerk. My parents mentioned my brother needed a job and the day desk operate told them my brother would have the job if he wanted it. They’ve known my brother since he was a newborn and would prefer to hire someone they know than someone off the streets.

He’s been there now since the middle of November and seems to be doing great. He doesn’t make a lot and Boulder is very HCOL but as a single guy he’s making it work.

My parents went out on Thanksgiving weekend and my mom commented that my brother is a totally different person than he was here at home. He hasn’t touched pot despite it being legal in Colorado and he’s a lot more sociable than he used to be. She said he’s a lot like he was when he was littler, she hasn’t seen that person since before he graduated high school.

I’d suggest to the cousin he look into moving. Yeah it’s great that his dad has a successful business but living in someone else’s shadow can be tough for some people. Maybe getting out of town and going someplace where he can make his own name would motivate him.

[Sam_2.0]

Dec 6, 2014 12:26:56 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Our younger son ha no direction. He is college material. He would rather, at this point age 24, work minimally and have very little ammenities in his life. He wants everything handed to him and simply doesn't want to work for it. I've recently decided that he does have the life that he wants and is therefore successful. His life is not what I want for me. He has made his choice. 

This is my little brother EXACTLY. Except add in a SAHW with the same mindset and a 9-month old kid. He's got his lineman training but won't go join the union and won't apply for jobs where he would need to travel, so he's stuck in $15/hr jobs and whines about it. He can't come work for my company due to the nepotism policy so he whines that I need to quit my job so he can get a good one here (um, no way!). He won't move across the state line to get a job with the other big utility here even though that puts them closer to his wife's family.

Even as a kid this one did just the bare minimum to get by. Never saw the need to go above & beyond or look too far out to the future.

[happyhoix]

Our neighbor had a son my son's age. He wasn't college material, and he drifted, after graduation from HS, into one trade program after another. Got heavily mixed up with a seriously crazy girlfriend and his parents sent him to the opposite end of the country to work for his uncle, washing dishes at a restaurant the uncle owned, just to get him away from crazy girl. Then he comes back home, finally over the girl, but still drifting from one trade program to another.

During this time I see him at a neighborhood function and he complains that, when he started working as an electrician's apprentice, he had to carry all the heavy tools, but the other electrians didn't let him do any 'real' work - he wanted to start in right away doing full scale electrical work. And he resented that he only made apprentice wages, he felt that a job needed to pay him a minimum of $40,000 per year to make it 'worth' his time - a high salary for a HS graduate with no experience in this low COL area.

He drove his dad absolutely crazy, but here is the funny thing - his dad did exactly the same thing, until he met and married his wife, and then at about 28 years old, he went to college and got a degree. Son ends up doing exactly the same thing - meets a nice girl, gets married, and he's back in the electrian's apprentice program again. Last I heard, two years later, he's still on the same career path, owns a home, etc etc.

So I don't know if it's so much that he had no direction - I think he was immature. He didn't want to bother working unless it paid a nice high salary, and didn't understand that HS graduates are pretty much a dime a dozen, so therefore don't get paid very well. He was fine hanging out on his parent's couch smoking pot and playing video games, waiting for that mythical well paying job to come to him. But now he's got a wife, and bills, and a house, and he's developed the maturity to understand he has to pay for those things.