"I should get a say"....

[TheHaitian]

On another board I visit, this member had a question. He is an only child, his parents are expecting him to support them in their old age but he doesn't approve how they spends money now on what he considers "foolish" things.

His take: if they are expecting me to support them in old age, I should get a say on how they spend money NOW.

Oh Lordy, you would have thought the guy open the door to the taboo question of the day. He got called out, called ingrate, ungrateful, how dare he thinks he have a say on how his parents spends money, they took care of him, raised him, etc. You got the gist of it...

The posters like me that felt he was in the right were in the minority. I feel if my mom at 50 openly told me: Son, you are my retirement plan. When I retire I am moving in with you and you are taking care of me.

I would feel it is totally within my rights to tell her: Mom, I will gladly do it BUT you might as well start turning over your paychecks and bills right now... Why wait 15 years.

Is that wrong? He said his parents called to borrow some money only for him to find out down the road is because they ran out of money to finish/remodel their kitchen and to buy a new fridge.

Do you think it is a "fair" approach? Or should he just shut up and wait till the day he has to support them?

Personally I am a control freak, if I am going to give someone $100's of dollars every month (even my mom that gave me life and I love dearly), I would want to know exactly where it went and what it is for.

Heck I even do it to my wife when she ask me to get cash from the ATM. First question if she doesn't provide it with her request: WHY? And with credit/debit card it is easy, I don't have to ask, I just log into the account and see it.

What is YM take?

[Deleted]

When parents are old and can not work the children are responsible to care for them no matter what and it is not the child's right to control there money now. But also its responsibility of parents to try to control there money well and try to be minimum burden for the children when they are old. Also the child is not responsible to loan money to parents when they are not to old to work except because extreme condition.

If a child behaved badly still parents must feed and care for him. When parents are old they are the child and the child is the parents. It is the cosmic cycle.

[chiver78]

as an adult child whose opinion's been sought and flat-out ignored, I'm totally with you Carl.

I'm not about to let my parents suffer in the streets or hungry, but if they ever thought I would sustain some standard of living later so they could make frivolous purchases now.....well, we'd be having some words for sure.

I almost posted last night about a conversation my mom and I had last night, regarding their upcoming sale of the house I grew up in. maybe I should describe that in this thread...talk about being apropos!

[zibazinski]

Oh, Lordy, you have opened the can of worms about those who feel parents are OWED and those that feel they aren't.

[tskeeter]

Oct 17, 2014 16:25:24 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

On another board I visit, this member had a question. He is an only child, his parents are expecting him to support them in their old age but he doesn't approve how they spends money now on what he considers "foolish" things.

His take: if they are expecting me to support them in old age, I should get a say on how they spend money NOW.

Oh Lordy, you would have thought the guy open the door to the taboo question of the day. He got called out, called ingrate, ungrateful, how dare he thinks he have a say on how his parents spends money, they took care of him, raised him, etc. You got the gist of it...

The posters like me that felt he was in the right were in the minority. I feel if my mom at 50 openly told me: Son, you are my retirement plan. When I retire I am moving in with you and you are taking care of me.

I would feel it is totally within my rights to tell her: Mom, I will gladly do it BUT you might as well start turning over your paychecks and bills right now... Why wait 15 years.

Is that wrong? He said his parents called to borrow some money only for him to find out down the road is because they ran out of money to finish/remodel their kitchen and to buy a new fridge.

Do you think it is a "fair" approach? Or should he just shut up and wait till the day he has to support them?

Personally I am a control freak, if I am going to give someone $100's of dollars every month (even my mom that gave me life and I love dearly), I would want to know exactly where it went and what it is for.

Heck I even do it to my wife when she ask me to get cash from the ATM. First question if she doesn't provide it with her request: WHY? And with credit/debit card it is easy, I don't have to ask, I just log into the account and see it.

What is YM take?

I'm with you, Carl.  Parents shouldn't plan on their kids being their retirement plan.  Especially if they are blowing through every cent they get, rather than preparing to provide for themselves.  Voluntarily helping a parent who is destitute, even if they have made a few poor decisions, is one thing.  Parents demanding that you essentially hand them your no limit credit card with no strings attached and no expectations for how they will use it is something entirely different.

However, in some states the laws don't agree with you.  Seems that a year or so back I read a story about how a guy's mother moved into a fancy, expensive nursing home.  Not that she needed it, or that the son had any involvement at all in Mom's placement in the home.  Mom just decided that is where she wanted to live and moved in.  Mom didn't pay her bill for about a year and a half.  Then Mom left the nursing home and moved back home.  Someplace like Turkey.  (Mom wasn't a US citizen.)  The nursing home went after the son to pay Mom's bill and the courts agreed with the nursing home.

[Deleted]

I've always kind of felt that I was at least part of my Mom's retirement plan. That doesn't sit so well with me when she's constantly buying new clothes, shoes and junk and complaining about not having money for her medicine. Or food. While I'm sitting around wishing I could buy new clothes, shoes and junk, but don't feel like I can because I have to do all this other stuff first. And Lord knows my greedy butt is going to make sure I can eat before I go splurging.

The last time she asked me for a real amount of money, she was on her way to my house and I told her when she got here, we should sit down and come up with a plan so she won't be broke the last 3 weeks of every month. She got all upset and refused to do it. I refused to give her the money she was asking for because it was a pattern that needed to stop. That was a few years ago and since then, she's only asked me for $10 or $20. I'll give her that. Hundreds of dollars or more........ we gotta talk.

So yeah, I think that if I'm going to help support you, I get to have a say in what you do with the money you do have. It's kind of different from the OP, because my Mom is already retired. But I don't think it's fair to just blow all your money with the expectation that your kids will take care of you when you run out. It sets the stage for a lot of resentment on both sides.

I wouldn't intentionally do that to my children. In my mind, my financial stability helps give my children freedom. Whether they inherit money from me or not, I want them to be free to go out and live their lives for themselves and not have to worry about how I'm making it while I'm here. I'm sure I feel that way because of my own experiences, worrying about my Mom.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2014 16:33:42 GMT -5 @tiki said:

When parents are old and can not work the children are responsible to care for them no matter what and it is not the child's right to control there money now. But also its responsibility of parents to try to control there money well and try to be minimum burden for the children when they are old. Also the child is not responsible to loan money to parents when they are not to old to work except because extreme condition.

If a child behaved badly still parents must feed and care for him. When parents are old they are the child and the child is the parents. It is the cosmic cycle.

according to who?

[Tennesseer]

We are part of our parents retirement plan (temporarily) only if they have spent their savings (very) unwisely.  Being struck by a catastrophe is another matter.  Best for the adult children to directly address their parent's future finances while there still is money to address. 

I agree with Carl.  He is right.

[Pants]

I'm more upset that Carl is cheating on us with another board.

[Happy prose]

I agree too. I think you should care for your parents by doing their shopping, rides to dr visits, etc, but not have to pay for them. My dad had an accident and stayed with us for 6 months, then to senior housing. He was in a wheel chair and couldn't do a lot. I had no problem caring for him until the day he died, but he was never a financial burden.

[souldoubt]

I think it's selfish when parents are counting on their adult children to financially support them in retirement even more so if they blow through what they have living a life they can't afford.  I actually brought this up this morning in another one of Carl's threads as I am hoping my mom isn't spending her retirement money now. I would never leave her out on the street but at the same time I'm not going to pay to support her if she's spending her money on having fun.  That doesn't mean retirement is her sitting around the house doing nothing she just has to be smart with what she has.  

[shanendoah]

As someone who has actually, seriously, had the "would we let your mother live on the street" discussion with C, where the decision was NOT clear cut, I think this is a tricky situation.

I think it is good (though not required) to help out your parents if you can. I do NOT think handing them money is the only, or even close to the best, way to help them. 
We did help C's mom financially, partly by letting her live with us rent free for about 9 months. And in the process, we completely took over her finances. We got DPOA and took away her cards. She was on a cash allowance for spending money, and used her money to pay her bills, buy her groceries, etc. 

So, what it comes down to, for me, is that if you expect to reverse the parent/child relationship in your old age to have your children take care of you, then you actually have to be willing to play the role of child, including in the realm of finances.

[cktc]

I understand the impulse to get a head start, but at this point micromanaging finances is just borrowing trouble. He doesn’t have to agree to anything until the time comes. His parents may not ever even need help. Even if they live on past their savings, they might qualify for more assistance than he can provide. And if they do make a mess of it, they will ultimately be the ones to pay for it. His ability to help won’t change based on how they handles their finances, his help just won’t go as far.

[NoNamePerson]

I would be dumpster diving and living in my car before I asked my son for help. But that's just me hating to ask for anything of anyone. Don't take this to mean that he wouldn't come to my rescue if need be, he just wouldn't know. 

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2014 17:57:31 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

I would be dumpster diving and living in my car before I asked my son for help. But that's just me hating to ask for anything of anyone. Don't take this to mean that he wouldn't come to my rescue if need be, he just wouldn't know. 

That would really upset me if I were your son.

The ones that would rather go without than ask for help are the ones most people are willing to help however they can.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2014 16:55:40 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

Oct 17, 2014 16:33:42 GMT -5 @tiki said:

When parents are old and can not work the children are responsible to care for them no matter what and it is not the child's right to control there money now. But also its responsibility of parents to try to control there money well and try to be minimum burden for the children when they are old. Also the child is not responsible to loan money to parents when they are not to old to work except because extreme condition.

If a child behaved badly still parents must feed and care for him. When parents are old they are the child and the child is the parents. It is the cosmic cycle.

according to who?

It is my opinion same as every other post in this thread is opinion.

[quince]

If my parents expect me to be responsible for them, yeah, I do expect to have authority over them.  

I hope to be able to HELP my parents, but I do not plan to be responsible for their well being in their old age. THEY are responsible, right now, for their well being in their old age.

[8 Bit WWBG]

This seems to follow the model of the golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rules.

[cronewitch]

Oct 17, 2014 17:57:31 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

I would be dumpster diving and living in my car before I asked my son for help. But that's just me hating to ask for anything of anyone. Don't take this to mean that he wouldn't come to my rescue if need be, he just wouldn't know. 

This is every person in my family, none have ever asked for help. My niece got an apartment in July with her future husband, I found out at Christmas they didn't have heat and only one twin sized blanket. I gave them 4 blankets at Christmas telling them if friends were drinking they could give them a blanket to sleep on the couch and they said they didn't have but the one. The two of them were working but they paid too much rent and car insurance and things. They would buy 4 pieces of chicken and cook them, she ate one, he ate two and took one for the next day's lunch. Once they bought 5 and had company and the company ate two, he didn't get lunch the next day.

I have taken up helping people for no reason without them hinting or begging. The couple above divorced and their son is starting college. The parents can't help him, he applied for some grants and things but I don't know what he got. I put 10K in his school account, the school cost about 23K a year and next semester his grandfather will give him 5K so he needs to come up with about 8K this year. He will never complain that he needs more money. He got a meal plan and dorm so can't suffer too much but he won't be begging. If he was a whiny beggar I might demand to see his budget or not help at all. His dad told him to borrow money, I told him not to borrow money, I will never ask him if he did borrow money.

[moon/Laura]

Oct 17, 2014 16:33:42 GMT -5 @tiki said:

If a child behaved badly still parents must feed and care for him.

Behaving badly and being financially irresponsible are not even close to the same thing. Also, a child is exactly that- a child. They don't have the means to support themselves until at they're at least 16 generally, and that's limited by school. If, once the child is grown, the child cannot be financially responsible, then I wouldn't expect the parents to continue bailing the child out either.

A parent's role is to teach their children how to be self-sufficient. If they can't do that themselves*, then it's not right for them to expect the kids to support them.

* not counting emergencies or things of that nature

[mmhmm]

I don't think any adult should expect another to support them, regardless of kinship. Things happen, though. My parents are a good example. Both worked (mother didn't work for a number of years before retirement age, however) so my father had a small pension, as did my mother. My father got SS which my mother now gets since his death. He died at 83. Mother is now 93 and lives with me. Due to the costs of my father's care when dementia made it impossible for him to live at home (he was wandering), they burned through most of their savings. Now, mother has only my father's SS. His pension goes to pay for her secondary health insurance. She'd be hard-put to take care of herself financially and is completely unable to do so physically. She's with me and will stay with me until she passes. I'm fortunate to be able to be here for her. Sometimes, the best laid plans give way.

[gooddecisions]

My inlaws have commented once or twice that having five children is their retirement plan. They are 70 and don't need any of their children yet, but I wonder who gets them when they do.

[bobosensei]

Not a good plan for parents.  First of all if they had such poor money management skills that they expect to have nothing in old age, why do they expect their kids to be doing well enough to support them?  What if the kids don't have a house large enough for them to live with them, have sick kids of their own to care for, or go through a job loss?  What if their kids die before they do or become really sick with cancer or early onset of alzheimers?  Do they then expect the grandkids to support them and their own parent while juggling toddlers?  I know Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory made that family look so sweet and loving, but it would be absolute hell and I could understand someone slipping their aging parent/grandparent a few too extra pain pills just to get some peace.

[wmpeon]

This is a difficult topic.  Before my father passed away, I worried how my siblings and I would support him when he could no longer work.  

It's all about boundaries.  Just because I have an EF, it doesn't mean it's in my budget to support someone else to their liking.  At least that's what I tell myself when family gives me a guilt trip and asks for a "loan" to deal with their fiscal emergency.  An hoo boy do I get upset when I learn my "loan" is spent on something I don't approve of.  BIL's smoke/beer habit, for example.  

[Miss Tequila]

I won't support my mother and I don't believe it is my responsibility to do so. She has been a financial trainwreck my entire life, making one bad decision after another. The fact that I make good financial choices doesn't mean I should have to support someone who only lives in the moment

[Shooby]

Parents are responsible to plan for and care for themselves. Parents are responsible for children, children are not responsible for parents. You cannot control an irresponsible parent. And, no way, should their adult child sacrifice THEIR child's education account and financial security to fund an irresponsible parent who voluntarily frittered away and did not save. Adults should solely be responsible for themselves, period.

[Shooby]

When my dad passed away, my mom got a bit loose with money. I took her aside and told her "Mom, if you run out of money, your ONLY option is going to be to come live with me and share a bedroom with one of my kids or sleep on the sofa". When she pondered the idea of living with DH, Me and my kids, that set her on the straight and narrow! lol

[Shooby]

Parents who glom off their children are the worst sort. Yes, there are tragic circumstances where things happen. But, that's not what I am talking about. I see a lot of parents who guilt induce their young adult children and help themselves to their money and it is truly disgusting.

[TheHaitian]

Oct 17, 2014 17:07:49 GMT -5 Pants said:

I'm more upset that Carl is cheating on us with another board.

It is good to get other people perspectives/views on things so you don't get locked in a box.

Look at this thread: this is YM and we believe in personal responsibility so we feel the parents should take care of the finances better.

The other board, 95% were against the child calling him all sorts of names because he felt if he is expected to support them later he should get a say now.

It was mind boggling but made me realize that there is a whole world out there that is not YM and their way of thinking will make YM explode.

I mostly read their threads for the amusement factor also because I can see Phil ripping his hair out, swamp thinking "those are my future clients",
And all sorts of things.

I mean just "wow"!

[zibazinski]

Interesting that we only have one player who thinks someone ought to be supporting parents who blow through their money. I wonder if this is Doxie in disguise?