Let me disrupt the whole legal system so I can go on

[The Captain]

maternity leave...


news.yahoo.com/attorney-denied-baby-time-brings-infant-court-204048601.html

An immigration judge in Atlanta denied an attorney's request to delay a hearing that fell during her six-week maternity leave and then scolded her in front of a packed courtroom when she showed up with her 4-week-old strapped to her chest and the infant began to cry, the attorney said.

When Stacy Ehrisman-Mickle took on two young brothers as clients in early September, she immediately filed a request to postpone their next hearing, which was set for a month later, she said. In an order denying her request, Immigration Judge J. Dan Pelletier Sr. wrote, "No good cause. Hearing date set prior to counsel accepting representation."



WFT?!?  I mean it's one thing if she accepted the case before knowing when the docketed court date was, but taking it expecting the system to change or move dates knowing she'd be out is something else entirely.  ESPECIALLY the currently way overburdended immigration docket.

PLUS - she couldn't get an associate to cover?!?  Or hire daycare for a day?

I don't know what kind of point she was trying to make but stupid parlor tricks like this is why women are not taken as seriously as men.  Tell me the last time you saw a dude bring his newborn to court.

[Deleted]

I don't know what kind of point she was trying to make but stupid parlor tricks like this is why women are not taken as seriously as men. Tell me the last time you saw a dude bring his newborn to court.

No, generalising this woman's behaviour onto all women is why women are not taken seriously. Some men have done things even more ridiculous but people don't generalise it to all men.

[Opti]

Some women aren't taken as seriously as men because of gender bias.

Some perhaps because they aren't that good just like some men.

What seriousness are you looking for? Last night I found an article on

a woman who is CEO of YouTube and was instrumental in getting Google going.

Is she not taken seriously just because of the actions of someone who is not her

in a some courtroom?

[Opti]

Captain, I can see this is a hot button issue for you, but perhaps you

could make your thread title more accurate? She disrupted on court,

for a short period of time. Nowhere near an entire legal system.

You haven't spending too much time on P&M have you?

[The Captain]

Sorry, I disagree.  I've been in the workforce for over 25+ years and women use the kid/baby card far more frequently than guys use any card.

I've had missed deadlines blamed on kids, leaving early (without prior notice) blamed on kids, inability to work overtime blamed on kids, on and on.

It is, in my experience, almost always the mother that can't seem to get stuff scheduled.  I have only had one guy use this excuse in my career, and he was coaching his kids team (again - just as unacceptable).

Now staying home with a sick kid is one thing, it's hard to plan for that (but surprise!  in a lot of cases you can) but that was not the case here. 

How many guys take months of family leave then tell their employers on the last day they don't intend to return to work?  What percentage of men demand flexible hours after having kids so they can manage their schedules?

In my experience I have NEVER had a guy quite work after a child was born, it's happened many times with women.  Also, I have only had one guy request a flexible schedule to manage family committments while many women have done so.

Yet women blame men for the fact they don't advance as far and as quickly in the workforce.

You can't have it both ways.

[Opti]

I've been in the workforce over 30+ years myself, more if I want

to start counting from my first job after school.

Childcare, babycare is still considered a woman's thing and so it will

impact them more than men who have society's leave to make it someone

else's problem.

I don't have kids so this hot button issue isn't one of mine. I don't have

lots of women complaining one way or the other about advancing or not

in the workplace.

Try not to take it personally. You can't control other people. If a group has

to be perfect to advance, it never will. Think of all the wackiness various male

lawyers have done plus wacky things say Al Sharpton does. Notice no one

ever compares him to all men, no matter how crazy he gets. He rarely even

gets compared to all black men, usually just black men in his niche like Jesse

Jackson, etc.

Perhaps you could help making things better by not comparing her to all women

but simply all women lawyers who behave badly. Just a thought...

[The Captain]

Oct 17, 2014 8:25:19 GMT -5 Opti said:

Captain, I can see this is a hot button issue for you, but perhaps you

could make your thread title more accurate? She disrupted on court,

for a short period of time. Nowhere near an entire legal system.

You haven't spending too much time on P&M have you?

She took a case with a date knowing she would not be able to make it and expected it to be moved.  In a system that is extremely well known for being crazy overburdened and understaffed and felt very justified in adding to the workload. 

Then, rather then getting her shit together and having someone watch the baby she brings it to court because she couldn't find anyone to watch the kid?  Bullshit!  There are services out there can provide short notice daycare (yes it's expensive) that you line up for such need ahead of time.

Let me ask you - if a guy showed up drunk and the judge chastised him for disrupting the court do you think the guy would go crying to the court of public opinion?  No, and the fact that she felt "humiliated" and justified in doing so just reinforces my position.

Did you disrupt the court?  Yes.  End of story.  Don't use the kid as an excuse.

[Opti]

Oct 17, 2014 8:34:16 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Oct 17, 2014 8:25:19 GMT -5 Opti said:

Captain, I can see this is a hot button issue for you, but perhaps you

could make your thread title more accurate? She disrupted on court,

for a short period of time. Nowhere near an entire legal system.

You haven't spending too much time on P&M have you?

She took a case with a date knowing she would not be able to make it and expected it to be moved.  In a system that is extremely well known for being crazy overburdened and understaffed and felt very justified in adding to the workload. 

Then, rather then getting her shit together and having someone watch the baby she brings it to court because she couldn't find anyone to watch the kid?  Bullshit!  There are services out there can provide short notice daycare (yes it's expensive) that you line up for such need ahead of time.

Let me ask you - if a guy showed up drunk and the judge chastised him for disrupting the court do you think the guy would go crying to the court of public opinion?  No, and the fact that she felt "humiliated" and justified in doing so just reinforces my position.

Did you disrupt the court?  Yes.  End of story.  Don't use the kid as an excuse.

Would someone post on EE that the guy makes all men look bad and now men

won't ever be taken seriously?

Would he be accused of disrupting the whole legal system?

(Why are you so invested in what this person did? Its her life, her choices,

her mistake to make just like Mr. drunk guy.)

[olderburgher]

    As a former Judge, all I can say is that I would have granted her request for a postponement. If that court is so overburdened, as claimed, that Judge had plenty of work to do to fill up the time reserved for that hearing. He would not be sitting there with nothing to do. 
    Having said that, her "stunt" of showing up with the baby was foolishly confrontational and the Judge should have exercised restraint instead of letting himself be provoked.

[Deleted]

The Captain do you look at Rob Ford and say this is why men aren't taken seriously? Or Justin Beiber? Or any number of other ridiculous druggy type men?

[Deleted]

She took a case with a date knowing she would not be able to make it and expected it to be moved. In a system that is extremely well known for being crazy overburdened and understaffed and felt very justified in adding to the workload.

Postponing court dates because of attorney conflicts is not an unusual practice.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2014 8:53:00 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

She took a case with a date knowing she would not be able to make it and expected it to be moved. In a system that is extremely well known for being crazy overburdened and understaffed and felt very justified in adding to the workload.

Postponing court dates because of attorney conflicts is not an unusual practice.

Postponing because of UNFORESEEN conflicts (trial over-run, for example), I can understand, and I believe is the "not unusual practice".

She was pregnant and expecting when she took the case. Her being on maternity leave was not exactly unforeseen when she took the case.

[swamp]

Oct 17, 2014 8:08:05 GMT -5 The Captain said:

maternity leave...


news.yahoo.com/attorney-denied-baby-time-brings-infant-court-204048601.html

An immigration judge in Atlanta denied an attorney's request to delay a hearing that fell during her six-week maternity leave and then scolded her in front of a packed courtroom when she showed up with her 4-week-old strapped to her chest and the infant began to cry, the attorney said.

When Stacy Ehrisman-Mickle took on two young brothers as clients in early September, she immediately filed a request to postpone their next hearing, which was set for a month later, she said. In an order denying her request, Immigration Judge J. Dan Pelletier Sr. wrote, "No good cause. Hearing date set prior to counsel accepting representation."



WFT?!?  I mean it's one thing if she accepted the case before knowing when the docketed court date was, but taking it expecting the system to change or move dates knowing she'd be out is something else entirely.  ESPECIALLY the currently way overburdended immigration docket.

PLUS - she couldn't get an associate to cover?!?  Or hire daycare for a day?

I don't know what kind of point she was trying to make but stupid parlor tricks like this is why women are not taken as seriously as men.  Tell me the last time you saw a dude bring his newborn to court.

A couple years ago. 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

The Captain do you look at Rob Ford and say this is why men aren't taken seriously? Or Justin Beiber? Or any number of other ridiculous druggy type men?

One of those two isn't even a man - he's still considered a minor in most places.

The other is also a poor example of a MAN. The majority of the male populace doesn't spend their days (and nights) behaving outrageously in public and partaking in over-drinking and drugs - especially if they're a public figure and head of a City.

Not sure what either of those two examples you name have to do with the OP and the female Atty wanting to delay a case due to giving birth & being on maternity leave.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2014 19:07:35 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Oct 17, 2014 8:53:00 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Postponing court dates because of attorney conflicts is not an unusual practice.

Postponing because of UNFORESEEN conflicts (trial over-run, for example), I can understand, and I believe is the "not unusual practice".

She was pregnant and expecting when she took the case. Her being on maternity leave was not exactly unforeseen when she took the case.

I am sure I have heard of cases where the court date had a conflict for the accused's new attorney and it was switched. It's not unusual.

[Opti]

Oct 17, 2014 21:33:17 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

The Captain do you look at Rob Ford and say this is why men aren't taken seriously? Or Justin Beiber? Or any number of other ridiculous druggy type men?

One of those two isn't even a man - he's still considered a minor in most places.

The other is also a poor example of a MAN. The majority of the male populace doesn't spend their days (and nights) behaving outrageously in public and partaking in over-drinking and drugs - especially if they're a public figure and head of a City.

Not sure what either of those two examples you name have to do with the OP and the female Atty wanting to delay a case due to giving birth & being on maternity leave.

I think most places the age of majority is 18.

From a Bing search:
Justin Bieber age
20 years old
born March 1, 1994

I think the examples were yet more evidence that bad acting males are treated as

individuals generally and their actions are rarely considered to be the actions of all

men nor reflect on all men.

[swamp]

I take cases all the time knowing I can't make the appearance. I reschedule the appearance. Not a big deal. 

[Deleted]

If it was a man and he was on leave because cataract surgery probably the judge would serve a different tea.

[sunup268]

Oct 18, 2014 15:09:30 GMT -5 swamp said:

I take cases all the time knowing I can't make the appearance. I reschedule the appearance. Not a big deal. 

Well it better have been for a more 'manly' acceptable reason than your child. It is quite amazing how little support there is for women when they try to do a good job at home and work. I know something about this. I raised my son while married to a truck driver. He was home for three days every three weeks. I was lucky my son was very healthy and easy going because it was rough doing everything myself.