I guess they are just lying

[whoisjohngalt]

So many of you kept saying that rising insurance premiums and rising health care costs have nothing to do with Obamacare.

Well, I just received an email regarding open enrollment next month at my husband's job.

They got rid of all the insurance plans they had.   I am not sure what they are going to offer, I won't find out until next week, but they flat out stated that due to increased costs associated with Obamacare they can't afford to offer the same plans anymore

This is a HUGE company, known world wide.  They are also an excellent, excellent company.  I've never worked for a company that was so vested in their employees. 

And  we had very good health insurance through them until now.

They have been in business for DECADES.  And this is the first time they are making drastic changes to the health insurance they are offering.

But I am sure a lot of you are going to tell me that it has nothing to do with Obamacare and they are just using it as an excuse 

[The Captain]

ACA had very little in it to reign on healthcare costs, and a lot in it to promulgate additional cost shifting.

My husband's company also announced major revisions to their healthcare plans.  Since we are covered under my employer it's a moot point for us, but I am curious to see what will happen at his company.

For this year at least my employer has messaged mainly status quo so far, with maybe 5-10% increases depending on which type of coverage is choosen.  Mind you, rates have always been set at my employer based on salary so we're paying the max each month.

Seriously, what did anyone think was going to happen?

[Deleted]

A lot of the things Obamacare changed shouldn't have affected the cost of your plans. I assume they already covered pre-existing conditions; most good employer plans have for years. They're now required to cover kids up to age 26 but that's bringing in a segment of the population that's healthier, on average, than the older people in the group. Lifetime maximum coverage caps are prohibited- can be very expensive for a single (unfortunate) person but shouldn't add much to the average per-person premium. They have to cover breast pumps. No biggie. Preventative care is 100% covered (with limits to what that means)- probably covered anyway by most good plans.

I'd chalk it up to the high cost of health insurance in general. Keep us posted; I'd be interested to see what they do offer. Is your current plan High Deductible? If not, that may be what you get this time.

[Gardening Grandma]

I would need more data before I blamed that on the ACA, aka Obamacare, yes.



But if you are already opposed to the ACA anyway, then Obama is a convenient scapegoat.

[8 Bit WWBG]

I don't think many people out there (myself included) have spent the time to really understand exactly what the ACA does.  The vote went down by pretty standard party lines.  Then each side touts out their sob or success stories to sensationalize the issue.  That Tonight Show bit where people didn't realize that ACA and Obamacare are the same thing is pretty powerful.  While they certainly cherry-picked the funny instances for TV, I suspect what was shown is pretty representative of the truth.

I also want to see some justification for what "too expensive" really means.  Expensive could mean "we'd need to reduce 20% of staff and consolidate office space to afford this" or does it just mean "the directors wouldn't get as large a bonus or their ivory back-scratchers this year"?

[Tennesseer]

Since 2004 when I retired (age 53), my retiree health benefits have gone up about $1,200 a year every other year.  I started paying $100 a month as a retiree and am now paying $530 a month.  These increases began long before Obamacare let alone Obama.

[whoisjohngalt]

Oct 10, 2014 11:04:13 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

I would need more data before I blamed that on the ACA, aka Obamacare, yes.



But if you are already opposed to the ACA anyway, then Obama is a convenient scapegoat.

This time it wasn't me, actually.

My husband forwarded me email from their HR?  dept and it said in black and while

"DUE TO INCREASED COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH ACA WE WILL BE REPLACING ALL OF OUR EXISTING PLANS"

Like I said, I am sure you will think the company is lying, but I have no reason to think that bc through out all the years of my husband's employment there it has been an excellent company in ALL aspects, including their health insurance options.

[whoisjohngalt]

Oct 10, 2014 11:03:57 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

A lot of the things Obamacare changed shouldn't have affected the cost of your plans. I assume they already covered pre-existing conditions; most good employer plans have for years. They're now required to cover kids up to age 26 but that's bringing in a segment of the population that's healthier, on average, than the older people in the group. Lifetime maximum coverage caps are prohibited- can be very expensive for a single (unfortunate) person but shouldn't add much to the average per-person premium. They have to cover breast pumps. No biggie. Preventative care is 100% covered (with limits to what that means)- probably covered anyway by most good plans.

I'd chalk it up to the high cost of health insurance in general. Keep us posted; I'd be interested to see what they do offer. Is your current plan High Deductible? If not, that may be what you get this time.

No, our current plan is not High Deductible, just regular PPO.

I don't know at all what they are going with.

I only hope that I can still use the same doctors, especially our pediatrician.

[alabamagal]

If you had a PPO, the company probably contributed quite a bit of money toward it, and it would be considered a "Cadillac Plan", which will cost the company even more. The ACA would cause them to pay EVEN more, so they will get rid of it.  The ACA basically penalizes companies that have "good insurance plans".

So your new one will likely be high deductible, more money out of your pocket.

The ACA is not forcing the company to change plans, just highly encouraging them to.  Sucks.

[Deleted]

Well, then you may get an HDHP. My last two employers went in that direction and both had reputations for taking good care of their employees (and I agreed- benefits were not lavish but they were better than average). Both made this change before ACA.

The reason you may not get to choose between an HDHP and a PPO is that (surprise, surprise) people who have a lot of expensive ongoing medical problems choose the PPO, figuring they'll do better paying the higher premiums because their OOP medical costs will be lower. Those of us who are blessed enough to be healthy 99% of the time choose the HDHP for the lower premiums. That means the PPO plan goes into a death spiral due to "adverse selection"- costs keep increasing because the sicker people select it, and as premiums go up the healthier people in the PPO group migrate to HDHP, making the PPO group even more expensive (per person) to insure.

[ArchietheDragon]

In a decade or two health insurance is going to be purchased like car insurance.   Every family for themselves. 

[whoisjohngalt]

Oct 10, 2014 11:51:13 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Well, then you may get an HDHP. My last two employers went in that direction and both had reputations for taking good care of their employees (and I agreed- benefits were not lavish but they were better than average). Both made this change before ACA.

The reason you may not get to choose between an HDHP and a PPO is that (surprise, surprise) people who have a lot of expensive ongoing medical problems choose the PPO, figuring they'll do better paying the higher premiums because their OOP medical costs will be lower. Those of us who are blessed enough to be healthy 99% of the time choose the HDHP for the lower premiums. That means the PPO plan goes into a death spiral due to "adverse selection"- costs keep increasing because the sicker people select it, and as premiums go up the healthier people in the PPO group migrate to HDHP, making the PPO group even more expensive (per person) to insure.

If I was single or just me and husband, I would have chosen that as well, but having 3 kids makes me very nervous.

I need to stop thinking about it bc I won't be able to see the "new" plans until next week and I don't want this to completely ruin my weekend

[TheHaitian]

Oct 10, 2014 11:49:08 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

If you had a PPO, the company probably contributed quite a bit of money toward it, and it would be considered a "Cadillac Plan", which will cost the company even more. The ACA would cause them to pay EVEN more, so they will get rid of it.  The ACA basically penalizes companies that have "good insurance plans".

So your new one will likely be high deductible, more money out of your pocket.

The ACA is not forcing the company to change plans, just highly encouraging them to.  Sucks.

That will be our case this year.

We have a PPO but will be going to High Deductible this open enrollment, more money out of our Pocket.

[ArchietheDragon]

Oct 10, 2014 11:56:54 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Oct 10, 2014 11:49:08 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

If you had a PPO, the company probably contributed quite a bit of money toward it, and it would be considered a "Cadillac Plan", which will cost the company even more. The ACA would cause them to pay EVEN more, so they will get rid of it.  The ACA basically penalizes companies that have "good insurance plans".

So your new one will likely be high deductible, more money out of your pocket.

The ACA is not forcing the company to change plans, just highly encouraging them to.  Sucks.

That will be our case this year.

We have a PPO but will be going to High Deductible this open enrollment, more money out of our Pocket.

Just like the traditional Pension, PPOs are dying because companies can't manage the costs. 

[gooddecisions]

I work for a mega company as well that has great employee benefits. I started there in 2001. My health insurance steadily climbed from the original $30 to $150 (single plan)/month. The biggest jumps were before ACA. This year my company absorbed the cost and there is no increase for employees- for the first time in my 14 year time with them.

[bean29]

We have not received a Memo yet, but our plan year ends November 30. Plan Administrator told me that the deductible on the Obama care plan is slightly higher but that the premium the company pays was significantly lower. My company is going to renew last years plan for now, so plan/deductibles will pretty much stay the same. (Small company I think we have 12 on the insurance).

[ArchietheDragon]

Oct 10, 2014 12:02:28 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Oct 10, 2014 11:57:47 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Just like the traditional Pension, PPOs are dying because companies can't manage the costs taxes. 

I think you had a typo there 

Taxes are part of the cost.   Not a huge part, but a part. 

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2014 11:57:47 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Oct 10, 2014 11:56:54 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

That will be our case this year.

We have a PPO but will be going to High Deductible this open enrollment, more money out of our Pocket.

Just like the traditional Pension, PPOs are dying because companies can't manage the costs. 

Our PPO stayed the same price for 2014, but not sure what next year holds.  Open enrollment is in a few weeks.  Part of me kind of hopes they just go to a high deductible plan with an HSA, but (knock on wood), the kids and I don't generally have much for medical costs.

[giramomma]

It depends.

I think we are going to go with our HDHP. But the employer contribution covers our deductible, with a little left over. I think unless there is something I am missing, we'll go for it. I have a couple of prescripts, but, I can add that money into our HSA to off set that, and still be ahead an extra $100/month in my paycheck.

We also have three kids, and generally they are healthy. We don't consume health care unless it's really an emergency or preventive medicine. Most preventive stuff is covered automatically by ACA. We've had one kid emergency in a decade. Maternity would make me nervous. But, since we're not having any more kids, it's a not issue.

You all know I'm the poster child for having a no-risk life, and I'm surprisingly happy with our options.

Our governor and state lawmakers have passed tax break after taxbreak, to the point where we now have a structural deficit. Cuts are going to need to be made. And as usual, it's coming at the public sector worker's expense.

OF COURSE they are not saying it's their fault. Of course they are not pandering to those that are donating lots of money.
It's the economy, stupid.

How many businesses are blunt and say "Oh, we have to make sure we keep our stockholders happy. And we have to make sure we pay our executives a large salary.We're are doing it at the expense of our workers, because we can."


ETA: I quoted the wrong people.

[yogiii]

The PPO plan at DH's job is 16k in premiums alone this year!

whoisjohngalt, I know our pediatrician accepts all the HDHPs I've been on, we've had a couple.

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2014 12:14:25 GMT -5 giramomma said:

How many businesses are blunt and say "Oh, we have to make sure we keep our stockholders happy. And we have to make sure we pay our executives a large salary.We're are doing it at the expense of our workers, because we can."

I agree. For years before ACA, employers would increase premiums, copays and deductibles and blame it on rising health insurance costs. Which was true, but they were also passing more of the increase on to the employees, so that over the years the % share the employees pay has gone up faster than the% share paid by employers. (I've seen this mentioned in a few articles, don't have a link offhand.)

[movingforward]

Our insurance is staying the same.  I work for a small company (10 employees) that covers the premium for all employees.  I believe the company's cost went up around 2% which is less than the last few years.  My BFF works for a company with 8 employees and and they have our same insurance.  Her CEO said they are changing insurance plans due to obamacare .  IF their rates did change it is probably due to the fact her office has a lot of unhealthy employees and zero to due to the ACA.  That is the sickliest small office I have ever seen (I do some volunteer work for them and know a lot of the employees).  The accountant is only 43 and has already had both a heart attack and a stroke, the receptionist has a chronic condition that causes seizures and has to be on some very expensive meds, my BFF has a lot of health issues and typically doesn't go a year without having an MRI done, and others have various issues as well.  Seriously, if you only have 8 employees and most have major issues, uh yeah, your health premiums are going to go up and I doubt it has much to do with the ACA. 

[souldoubt]

Like someone else said nothing in the ACA seemed to address the rising cost of insurance and healthcare.  When you add millions of people onto insurance plans the burden of that cost gets spread out to everyone.  I go to the doctor less than once a year as do most the people I know my age or younger.  When people like that who weren't paying before are either forced to have insurance or pay a penalty then really it's them helping to pay for everyone else as they generally use less benefits.  I'm not blaming anyone for needing to use more healthcare just saying that cost is getting spread out which means costs can rise more than they were before.  At my work obviously every year the cost goes up because it's insurance but we've been told flat out by our broker that some of that increase is related to the ACA. 

[Tiny]

Maybe the raising costs have more to do with the raising cost of health care AND the increase in people needing/using more healthcare.

A friend's mother's heart bypass surgery (from the first appt to being released from the nursing home) is expected to top out between 250K and 300K.

That same friend's yearly cost for medicine/doctors appts/care for her asthma, diabetes, issues related to her diabetes (and morbid obesity) have been costing between 50K and 60K a year - and that would be without a hospital stay. Hospital stays add another 25K (and up). She will continue to incur those kinds of costs (and more) until she dies. She's 50. Of course her out of pocket isn't 50K a year...

My other 50 year old friends and more than 50yo relatives also seem to use alot of health care services... they've got pills and conditions and doctor's appointments. Problably NOT in the 50K range - but still. Sucks to be old and infirm.

IDK, if you are using (or will soon be using) alot of healthcare services the cost of 'insurance' doesn't sound that bad... it's like buying services at a discount.

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2014 12:30:36 GMT -5 Tiny said:

My other 50 year old friends and more than 50yo relatives also seem to use a lot of health care services... they've got pills and conditions and doctor's appointments. Problably NOT in the 50K range - but still. Sucks to be old and infirm.

IDK, if you are using (or will soon be using) a lot of healthcare services the cost of 'insurance' doesn't sound that bad... it's like buying services at a discount.

Yes, it would suck to be old and infirm, but please don't consider it inevitable.  I'm 61 and am on one prescription.  Explaining its function would be TMI, but let's just say it improves the quality of my life but my health would not in the least be threatened if I didn't take it.  It's going to run me about $80/month (and, since it's a HDHP, it's 100% out of pocket).  There's a whole lot that can be managed and prevented.  My doctor's visits are limited to the bare minimum for checkups and an occasional trip to a Doc In the Box for poison ivy.  Managed to avoid that this year.

Siblings are pretty much the same.

[ArchietheDragon]

Oct 10, 2014 12:47:36 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Oct 10, 2014 12:00:03 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

I work for a mega company as well that has great employee benefits. I started there in 2001. My health insurance steadily climbed from the original $30 to $150 (single plan)/month. The biggest jumps were before ACA. This year my company absorbed the cost and there is no increase for employees- for the first time in my 14 year time with them.

wow! Am I silly to hold out hope that mine will remain the same too?

Yes.   Change happens. 

[yogiii]

I'm actually excited because I'm finally doing an HSA for 2015.  Previous I only had and HRA as an option and I'm not a fan of that as you can't contribute any of your own money.

[whoisjohngalt]

Oct 10, 2014 12:49:59 GMT -5 yogiii said:

I'm actually excited because I'm finally doing an HSA for 2015.  Previous I only had and HRA as an option and I'm not a fan of that as you can't contribute any of your own money.

Can you or someone explain to me in 1st grade English what is HSA?

I wonder if we will have an option now that all the plans are going away

And it's great that our pediatrician excepts HD plans - now I just need to find out if I can afford it

[tskeeter]

Well, as I understand it, millions of people with serious medical conditions who previously had no, or limited, medical insurance have received insurance coverage since the ACA became available.  Having adequate medical care is a good thing.

However, these heavy consumers of medical care services are now in the same cost pool with you and me.  And, often, the reason these folks did not have comprehensive medical insurance was that it cost them too much.  Under the ACA, the subsidies make access to better medical services affordable for these folks.  Who do you think will pay the bills for the services that the previously under served are now consuming?  The President and Congress are not writing personal checks to cover the cost of these folks medical care.  Those cost are now being paid out of our pockets.  Of course the ACA is driving up the cost of medical care for middle income folks, like many YMers.  You simply can not significantly increase the amount of services you are providing to people who don't have the ability to pay for the services they are receiving without someone else paying the freight.

Were medical costs increasing on an annual basis before the ACA?  Yes.  

Prior to the ACA, were employers shifting more of the cost of medical care to employees?  Yes

Since the ACA has the cost of medical care gone down?  For some low income people, yes.  But for most of the population, I don't think so.  In fact, I'm reading reports that people who could afford adequate medical care before the ACA are finding that they can not afford the plans mandated under the ACA, even with the subsidies, and are forced to gamble that they won't get sick.

Is the pace of increase in the cost of medical care slowing under the ACA?  I don't know.  There are reports that the Administration is strong arming insurers to keep increases to a minimum until after the next elections.  (Since the executive branch controls the agencies that regulate insurance companies and medical care providers, the Administration is certainly in a position to exert a tremendous amount of influence over the short term behavior of the entities it regulates.)  Over all, I'm not sure that any reported slowing in the rate of cost increases can be sustained over the long term.  Time will tell. 

At this time, about all I can see with certainty is that the number of people who are consuming more medical services than they are paying for has increased significantly, and previously optional services are now mandated under the terms of the ACA.  In that context, I think the ACA requirements do increase the cost of nedical care.  And that those cost increases are causing businesses to re-evalute the medical care programs that they are able to provide.

[yogiii]

Oct 10, 2014 12:56:07 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Oct 10, 2014 12:49:59 GMT -5 yogiii said:

I'm actually excited because I'm finally doing an HSA for 2015.  Previous I only had and HRA as an option and I'm not a fan of that as you can't contribute any of your own money.

Can you or someone explain to me in 1st grade English what is HSA?

I wonder if we will have an option now that all the plans are going away

And it's great that our pediatrician excepts HD plans - now I just need to find out if I can afford it

Well I don't know if this counts as 1st grade English but I'll give you the actual numbers we'll pay next year.

$3k premium coming out of check
company deposits $1500 into HSA, I can then deposit ~5k of my own money tax free per year, it also grows tax free as long as you use it for medical expenses and you don't lose it
$4k deductible
stuff paid at 80% after meeting deductible
max out of pocket for the year is 8k
well visits are free