The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 12, 2014 14:17:26 GMT -5
news.msn.com/crime-justice/connecticut-home-invasion-inmate-seeks-kosher-dietThe New Haven Register reports that death row inmate Steven Hayes describes himself as an orthodox Jew and claims he's been requesting a kosher diet since May 2013.
In general, should inmates have the right to expcect certain "liberties" they would enjoy had they not committed their crimes? Would it make any difference in your answer if they were actively practicing their religion (yanno - except for the murder part) before they went to jail?
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Sept 12, 2014 14:33:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure if they should have the right to expect it, but legally, they can go after the system in order to get those meals. I don't favor the idea in the least, mind you. I'm pretty sure breaking one of the Ten Commandments is a sign that no one should have to answer to any higher authority for your chow.
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wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Sept 12, 2014 14:33:57 GMT -5
news.msn.com/crime-justice/connecticut-home-invasion-inmate-seeks-kosher-dietThe New Haven Register reports that death row inmate Steven Hayes describes himself as an orthodox Jew and claims he's been requesting a kosher diet since May 2013.
In general, should inmates have the right to expcect certain "liberties" they would enjoy had they not committed their crimes? Would it make any difference in your answer if they were actively practicing their religion (yanno - except for the murder part) before they went to jail? Except for certain religious fanatics for whom murder is a part of practicing their religion
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 12, 2014 15:03:02 GMT -5
I thought th the purpose of prison was for punishing criminals (especially murderers). I don't think special privileges for meals based on your faith should even come into play. You get what's served, or don't eat. (Only exception for special diet should be for medical reasons - diabetic, etc).
If his religious beliefs are suddenly so important to him now, I wonder how he feels about "An Eye for an Eye" justice?
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Sept 12, 2014 15:05:09 GMT -5
The regular food hasn't killed him yet, so I say suck it up.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 12, 2014 15:19:55 GMT -5
Someone should start a religion in which the most important tenet is that believers can't serve time in prison.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Sept 12, 2014 15:47:51 GMT -5
I have a friend who works in a prison cafeteria. She tells me that every time she serves she gets hassled about it not being organic, gluten free, paleo, you name it. It irritates her because she thinks, enjoy your taxpayer provided meal. She views it as a power struggle though. The inmates have nothing better to do than pick at every little thing. Don't like it- don't eat. Your choice.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 12, 2014 17:05:41 GMT -5
I have no problem at all catering Kosher meals to this inmate. A steady diet of Hebrew National hot dogs and kosher buns should meet his religious requirements.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 12, 2014 17:18:07 GMT -5
Does he answer to a higher authority?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 12, 2014 18:23:34 GMT -5
Hopefully, he will someday. The sooner the better.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 12, 2014 18:30:03 GMT -5
Yeah, THAT the commandment he should be worried about - kosher food. Seriously, when did it become that criminals have any right at all, except to a speedy fair trial?
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Sept 13, 2014 5:20:43 GMT -5
I am sure if this prisoner DOES get his kosher meals they will be the frozen, pre-packaged heat & eat stuff from one of the major providers like Glatt Kosher (does for air;lines & cruise ships). I have seen those meals. I would rather eat a dry balogna sandwich on junk, cheap white bread.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2014 6:57:06 GMT -5
I think if you break the law, you can and should be denied privledges. On the other hand, I don't think we should necessarily deny prisoners rights. That's what makes us different. Religion is a right, and within reason should be accommodated. That said, I'm ok with the steady diet of hot dogs and frozen slop.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 13, 2014 8:52:43 GMT -5
I think if you break the law, you can and should be denied privledges. On the other hand, I don't think we should necessarily deny prisoners rights. That's what makes us different. Religion is a right, and within reason should be accommodated. That said, I'm ok with the steady diet of hot dogs and frozen slop. There are 613 commandments in the Torah. Keeping Kosher is just one of them. I am pretty sure he broke a few dozen at this point and I am also pretty sure that he is breaking plenty of them on a regular basis while in prison. So, I call a BS on the whole "rights to religion" thing. I think he is nothing but attention whore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2014 19:28:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure if they should have the right to expect it, but legally, they can go after the system in order to get those meals. I don't favor the idea in the least, mind you. I'm pretty sure breaking one of the Ten Commandments is a sign that no one should have to answer to any higher authority for your chow. Yeah... this is where my thoughts are at... breaking one of the "big 10" pretty much tells me that your faith isn't quite as devout as you want others to think it is. Deal with what the prison cafeteria is serving.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Sept 13, 2014 20:02:59 GMT -5
I am sure if this prisoner DOES get his kosher meals they will be the frozen, pre-packaged heat & eat stuff from one of the major providers like Glatt Kosher (does for air;lines & cruise ships). I have seen those meals. I would rather eat a dry balogna sandwich on junk, cheap white bread. Depends on the prison, and its proximity to a kosher cooking facility. They do all arrive frozen, it's true. The jail I was in was close to a commercial kosher kitchen, so the food was decent, I was told by inmates who got the meals. But I'm thinking that in more remote parts of the country, where Jews and Muslims (Muslims also often ask for the kosher meals, because many of the dietary restrictions are similar) don't make up a large portion of inmates, those meals will be coming a long, long distance and taste about as good as the cardboard packaging.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 13, 2014 20:21:14 GMT -5
Is there anything in the Jewish religion against eating salad, or fresh fruits, rice, and other foods? I'm sure an inmate wouldn't starve if that's all he/she was served.
I'm probably wrong, but I thought Kosher was more about how the food is slaughtered (meats) or prepared and served (dairy not touching meat, etc).
Being non-Jewish, I'm unclear on the laws regarding foods.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2014 20:26:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure if they should have the right to expect it, but legally, they can go after the system in order to get those meals. I don't favor the idea in the least, mind you. I'm pretty sure breaking one of the Ten Commandments is a sign that no one should have to answer to any higher authority for your chow. Yeah... this is where my thoughts are at... breaking one of the "big 10" pretty much tells me that your faith isn't quite as devout as you want others to think it is. Deal with what the prison cafeteria is serving. I am very wary of the state being in a role to judge who is 'religious enough' ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2014 22:59:36 GMT -5
Yeah... this is where my thoughts are at... breaking one of the "big 10" pretty much tells me that your faith isn't quite as devout as you want others to think it is. Deal with what the prison cafeteria is serving. I am very wary of the state being in a role to judge who is 'religious enough' ... Absent being a criminal and going to jail... I agree with you. But... once you, personally, break a main tenet of your own faith and it lands you in jail? I think that's judgement worthy.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 14, 2014 2:22:31 GMT -5
Yeah, THAT the commandment he should be worried about - kosher food. Seriously, when did it become that criminals have any right at all, except to a speedy fair trial? Criminals are people too. Didn't some spiritual leader say something about' how you treat the least of these' means something about you?
No one practices their religion 100%. For example, most Christians seem to prefer to ignore the everyone made by God, only God should judge and punish thing. But, the Old Testament eye for an eye seems very popular.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 5:22:28 GMT -5
Yeah, THAT the commandment he should be worried about - kosher food. Seriously, when did it become that criminals have any right at all, except to a speedy fair trial? Criminals are people too. Didn't some spiritual leader say something about' how you treat the least of these' means something about you?
No one practices their religion 100%. For example, most Christians seem to prefer to ignore the everyone made by God, only God should judge and punish thing. But, the Old Testament eye for an eye seems very popular.
I believe you were looking for: As far as "No one practices their religion 100%"... they should switch religions then. Using Christianity as an example: The Bible - Either one believes it to be the true word of God, and thus infallible... or one believes that it isn't. And if one doesn't believe it to be infallible, then as a basis of a Religion it's worthless.
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Sept 14, 2014 5:24:59 GMT -5
another tought I just had:
Prisoner could eat vegan. Since it is all vegetable, fruit, nuts & grains it is automatically kosher as NOTHING is dairy or meat w/the special slaughter, cooking & separation rules.
My BIL is strictly kosher. My DD1 is a veggie so he can eat in her home. She has NEVER cooked meat products. IF we ever have meat there it is brought in and/or cooked by one of us omnivores.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 14, 2014 6:56:15 GMT -5
Yeah, THAT the commandment he should be worried about - kosher food. Seriously, when did it become that criminals have any right at all, except to a speedy fair trial? Criminals are people too. Didn't some spiritual leader say something about' how you treat the least of these' means something about you?
No one practices their religion 100%. For example, most Christians seem to prefer to ignore the everyone made by God, only God should judge and punish thing. But, the Old Testament eye for an eye seems very popular.
Huh.....I thought you told me you are putting me on "ignore".... In any case, yes, let's worry about criminals being the "people too". We already do a great job being all nice and humane to them. Let's continue that, bc it served us oh so well. Yes, let's all make sure we treat them nice bc oh G-d forbid if we don't - we will be deemed not good people. And take it from someone who understands the concept of freedom of religion VERY well - once again, you can't have RIGHTS without having RESPONSIBILITIES!!!!! May be if we spend less time trying to worry about all the criminals, we would have a chance to improve the situation for law abiding citizens.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 16, 2014 11:57:34 GMT -5
"You broke a tenet of your religion so you're not entitled to have your beliefs accomodated" is ridiculous logic. I'm fine with the idea that if you break the law you've lost your right to demand special religious treatment. Whether or not your action violated your religion is immaterial though. Societal law and religious doctrine aren't even the same thing. Someone can end a life and have it be illegal without it being immoral in their religion.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Sept 16, 2014 12:10:52 GMT -5
Is there anything in the Jewish religion against eating salad, or fresh fruits, rice, and other foods? I'm sure an inmate wouldn't starve if that's all he/she was served.
I'm probably wrong, but I thought Kosher was more about how the food is slaughtered (meats) or prepared and served (dairy not touching meat, etc).
Being non-Jewish, I'm unclear on the laws regarding foods. Actually there are rules regarding fruits and vegetables as well. They must be carefully checked and washed to make sure there are no bugs or worms. Some produce is not acceptable at all. I looked it up when DH's workplace sent out an email asking that non-Jewish folks not serve food that had not been okayed as Kosher. Most prisons don't serve any pork to satisfy the Muslim inmates. Some prisons serve the Muslim inmates at different times to satisfy the requirements of Ramadan (month long observance where they are allowed to eat only 1 meal after sundown). I see no problem with serving him Kosher hot dogs, peanut butter, etc. and the same bread as the other inmates.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Sept 16, 2014 12:20:17 GMT -5
As Nancy said, it's definitely regional and dependent on practicality as to whether the prisons can accommodate specific requests. If you ever watch "Locked Up" on TV they cover this topic. The thing is, prisoners "find God" or find religion or change religions while incarcerated, so they have to put them through some testing and waiting periods before just giving in to their dietary demands when they are related to religious issues. If reasonable, and if the inmate is cooperative, they will try to work with them.
DS2 is a correctional officer and inmates ARE people, too. Many have mental illness, abuse/neglect issues that have never been addressed, were in the wrong place at the wrong time, took the fall for an SO or family member, etc.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 16, 2014 14:21:27 GMT -5
Let me tell you all a little "secret".
For that guy to keep kosher, the prison would need to have an entirely different kitchen.
The laws of Kashrut are VERY strict.
To have a truly Kosher food - the food, the plates, the pots and pans and utensils can not come into ANY contact with regular food, plates, pots and pans and utensils bc if they do - it won't be Kosher.
So, even if all he ate were produce and bread, which will NEVER happen as I am sure there will be a whole other discussion on the proper nutrition - there are still issues with other things.
So, let's have a show of hands - who would like to start paying for separate kitchens in prison? And an entirely different menu?
Anyone ??
Oh and one more thing - people who only eat Kosher food take it very seriously. If this guy has been in prison for more than a day and only now is voicing his desires....well, "we" don't even have to judge his "religiousness", he already showed that it's not that important It's hilarious that some of you are taking it much more seriously than he is.
What is NOT hilarious is the fact how easily people can get away with all kinds of things bc there are always some bleeding hearts who take them seriously.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 14:32:23 GMT -5
Well, that's probably amount her reason it would all be frozen foods.
I've known people who are 'different levels' of kosher though. I have friends who won't eat a certain Mark. But will others. So I don't think all kosher is created equal. Maybe.
Someone mentioned vegan... Can prisoners request vegan/ vegetarian?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 16, 2014 14:54:50 GMT -5
It shouldn't be difficult to leave the meats off the plate for those who don't eat meat. I'd imagine that could be done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 14:56:50 GMT -5
Well, eating vegan/vegetarian isn't realy just as easy as just skipping the meat...
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