Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 9, 2014 20:50:31 GMT -5
From Fellowship of the Minds: 1. If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for being in the country illegally, you live in a country run by idiots. 2. If you have to get your parents’ permission to go on a field trip or take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion, you live in a country run by idiots. 3. If you have to show identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor or check out a library book, but not to vote on who runs the government, you live in a country run by idiots. 4. If the government wants to ban stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines with more than ten rounds, but gives 20 F-16 fighter jets to the crazy leaders in Egypt, you live in a country run by idiots. 5. If, in the largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not a 24-ounce soda because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat, you live in a country run by idiots. 6. If an 80-year-old woman can be stripped searched by the TSA but a woman in a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched, you live in a country run by idiots. 7. If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more, you live in a country run by idiots. ... You'll have to follow the link to get the remaining four.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 9, 2014 21:25:52 GMT -5
Virgil, You are back!!!
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Sept 9, 2014 21:32:48 GMT -5
Welcome back, Virgil! Where have you been hiding?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 9, 2014 21:41:42 GMT -5
From Fellowship of the Minds: 1. If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for being in the country illegally, you live in a country run by idiots. i didn't make it past one, because you absolutely CAN be arrested for being in THIS country illegally. you CAN be arrested, imprisoned, and deported. CAN. edit: so, are you trying to tell us something about Canada? Interesting link. Black racism but nothing on white racism.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Sept 9, 2014 21:51:32 GMT -5
Where did you find that tenn did I miss something?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 9, 2014 22:04:35 GMT -5
Where did you find that tenn did I miss something? It's on the front page of the link. You have a number of choices to view.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 9, 2014 23:30:34 GMT -5
If your healthcare system is set up to profit off of and then bankrupt families
If no one questions the right of a 9 year old girl to shoot an uzi
Legislators at the same time can complain about the lack of presidential action and the exercise of presidential action
If science is debatable
If you think the rapture is coming or prayer had an effect on the first round of the NFL
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djAdvocate
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only posting when the mood strikes me.
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 9, 2014 23:39:54 GMT -5
If your healthcare system is set up to profit off of and then bankrupt families
If no one questions the right of a 9 year old girl to shoot an uzi
Legislators at the same time can complain about the lack of presidential action and the exercise of presidential action
If science is debatable
If you think the rapture is coming or prayer had an effect on the first round of the NFL
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 9, 2014 23:53:30 GMT -5
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 10, 2014 0:26:22 GMT -5
If your healthcare system is set up to profit off of and then bankrupt families
If no one questions the right of a 9 year old girl to shoot an uzi
Legislators at the same time can complain about the lack of presidential action and the exercise of presidential action
If science is debatable
If you think the rapture is coming or prayer had an effect on the first round of the NFL I'd agree with 1, 2, and 3. It's in the very nature of science to be mutable (which is a significant part of what distinguishes scientific knowledge from scriptural knowledge), hence I have to disagree with #4. #5 has nothing to do with government. But of course you knew that.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 10, 2014 0:55:56 GMT -5
If your healthcare system is set up to profit off of and then bankrupt families
If no one questions the right of a 9 year old girl to shoot an uzi
Legislators at the same time can complain about the lack of presidential action and the exercise of presidential action
If science is debatable
If you think the rapture is coming or prayer had an effect on the first round of the NFL I'd agree with 1, 2, and 3. It's in the very nature of science to be mutable (which is a significant part of what distinguishes scientific knowledge from scriptural knowledge), hence I have to disagree with #4. #5 has nothing to do with government. But of course you knew that. What's debatable? I was raised Catholic, was an altar boy (didn't get raped), went to a Catholic grade school and high school- I used to carry the cross during Sunday service- in fact it was just like a job- I was on a list with hours. Got to drink the wine after it was over too. So at least I will attest that the jokes are not the normal thing and some of the most straight up folks I ever met were priests. People that walked the walk if you will.
What we did not do is deny science- the church finally took the view- and smartly so. In fact if you ever look at a Catholic Bible it will have footnotes describing every possible interpretation of the words, who is the possible author, and what it means.
And I have studied it- so unless you know who is J, P and E you aren't even able to even discuss it.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 10, 2014 4:44:54 GMT -5
The fellowship needs to hang with a better class of minds. You can be arrested for both in the US. (How do these minds think deportation works?)
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 10, 2014 4:52:38 GMT -5
Well, if I didn't need money I could go back to bed now. I just learned you might be a conservative if you think living in a country with helipcopter government might be desireable.
(Regards to always enforcing the law, i.e. arresting illegals. I guess some folks think the government should be better than they were as parents, i.e. catching every piece of bad behavior and punishing it.
ETA: I hit the usual minimum target of learning one new thing.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 10, 2014 5:31:50 GMT -5
Very easy to deal with illegals. No school, no welfare, anyone caught giving them jobs is thrown in jail, no medical. Self deport will work.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 10, 2014 5:32:21 GMT -5
Think Tyson execs want to sit in jail? I don't think so, not even for cheap labor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 12:54:23 GMT -5
The fellowship needs to hang with a better class of minds. You can be arrested for both in the US. (How do these minds think deportation works?)
Why are there approximately 11,000,000 here then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 12:59:19 GMT -5
From Fellowship of the Minds: 1. If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for being in the country illegally, you live in a country run by idiots. 2. If you have to get your parents’ permission to go on a field trip or take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion, you live in a country run by idiots. 3. If you have to show identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor or check out a library book, but not to vote on who runs the government, you live in a country run by idiots. 4. If the government wants to ban stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines with more than ten rounds, but gives 20 F-16 fighter jets to the crazy leaders in Egypt, you live in a country run by idiots. 5. If, in the largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not a 24-ounce soda because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat, you live in a country run by idiots. 6. If an 80-year-old woman can be stripped searched by the TSA but a woman in a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched, you live in a country run by idiots. 7. If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more, you live in a country run by idiots. ... You'll have to follow the link to get the remaining four. I would tend to believe that #3 is the cause of the rest of them.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 12, 2014 13:18:50 GMT -5
Think Tyson execs want to sit in jail? I don't think so, not even for cheap labor. They never will. Their lobbying group is way too powerful. The government will continue to fuss over illegals coming across the border but will never take any real, concrete measures to stop the problem (regardless of which party is in charge) because so many businesses require the cheap, expendible labor force. We know it, the illegals know it, that's why they keep coming.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 13:28:47 GMT -5
Think Tyson execs want to sit in jail? I don't think so, not even for cheap labor. They never will. Their lobbying group is way too powerful. The government will continue to fuss over illegals coming across the border but will never take any real, concrete measures to stop the problem (regardless of which party is in charge) because so many businesses require the cheap, expendible labor force. We know it, the illegals know it, that's why they keep coming. Nothing has really changed recently in Central America as far as drug cartels and gangs etc. They've been active and in control of their areas for years now. Why the sudden influx of juveniles ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 13:31:03 GMT -5
I'd agree with 1, 2, and 3. It's in the very nature of science to be mutable (which is a significant part of what distinguishes scientific knowledge from scriptural knowledge), hence I have to disagree with #4. #5 has nothing to do with government. But of course you knew that. What's debatable? I was raised Catholic, was an altar boy (didn't get raped), went to a Catholic grade school and high school- I used to carry the cross during Sunday service- in fact it was just like a job- I was on a list with hours. Got to drink the wine after it was over too. So at least I will attest that the jokes are not the normal thing and some of the most straight up folks I ever met were priests. People that walked the walk if you will.
What we did not do is deny science- the church finally took the view- and smartly so. In fact if you ever look at a Catholic Bible it will have footnotes describing every possible interpretation of the words, who is the possible author, and what it means.
And I have studied it- so unless you know who is J, P and E you aren't even able to even discuss it. [/ ]
I love when people respond to a challenge by saying, "I've studied X, therefore my opinion is more valid than yours."
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 12, 2014 13:35:24 GMT -5
Science is subject to change because we are constantly moving along a giant learning curve. Kind of like the more we know, the more we know we don't know.
But science is quantifiable, testable, repeatable. Once you have established a scientific fact, it is a fact and is no longer mutable; we may learn more about the fact, to add to our knowledge base, but the fact itself does not change.
We will not, for instance, find out at some point in the future that ice forms in water at 80 deg F.
Science is based on individual non-mutable facts. Unlike religion, which is based on a collection of beliefs, world views, and cultural values, each religion with it's own set of 'facts' that it believes to be non-mutable.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 12, 2014 13:37:57 GMT -5
They never will. Their lobbying group is way too powerful. The government will continue to fuss over illegals coming across the border but will never take any real, concrete measures to stop the problem (regardless of which party is in charge) because so many businesses require the cheap, expendible labor force. We know it, the illegals know it, that's why they keep coming. Nothing has really changed recently in Central America as far as drug cartels and gangs etc. They've been active and in control of their areas for years now. Why the sudden influx of juveniles ? I've heard two reasons - 1) there have been rumours circulated that the US will grant amnesty to children or 2) the pressure from central american drug cartels to recruit kids into the drug gangs has gotten worse, making parents feel that sending their kids on a nearly hopeless quest to sneak into the US is the lesser of two evils.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 13:46:30 GMT -5
Science is subject to change because we are constantly moving along a giant learning curve. Kind of like the more we know, the more we know we don't know. But science is quantifiable, testable, repeatable. Once you have established a scientific fact, it is a fact and is no longer mutable; we may learn more about the fact, to add to our knowledge base, but the fact itself does not change. We will not, for instance, find out at some point in the future that ice forms in water at 80 deg F. Science is based on individual non-mutable facts. Unlike religion, which is based on a collection of beliefs, world views, and cultural values, each religion with it's own set of 'facts' that it believes to be non-mutable. Research is subject to change. Theory is subject to change. Science is quantifiable, testable, and repeatable. Science is used in research and in theories. Not trying to be a wise guy here. It's just how I lived it.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 12, 2014 16:22:10 GMT -5
What's debatable? I was raised Catholic, was an altar boy (didn't get raped), went to a Catholic grade school and high school- I used to carry the cross during Sunday service- in fact it was just like a job- I was on a list with hours. Got to drink the wine after it was over too. So at least I will attest that the jokes are not the normal thing and some of the most straight up folks I ever met were priests. People that walked the walk if you will.
What we did not do is deny science- the church finally took the view- and smartly so. In fact if you ever look at a Catholic Bible it will have footnotes describing every possible interpretation of the words, who is the possible author, and what it means.
And I have studied it- so unless you know who is J, P and E you aren't even able to even discuss it. [/ ]
I love when people respond to a challenge by saying, "I've studied X, therefore my opinion is more valid than yours." Does your above comment apply to your opinion of people who claim to have studied the U.S. Constitution and know exactly what the founders meant because we have a few of those type of posters here too.
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kent
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Post by kent on Sept 12, 2014 16:38:06 GMT -5
i didn't make it past one, because you absolutely CAN be arrested for being in THIS country illegally. you CAN be arrested, imprisoned, and deported. CAN. edit: so, are you trying to tell us something about Canada? Interesting link. Black racism but nothing on white racism. That's because everyone knows all white people are racist so no need to delve further.
On the other hand, damn few people know how racist blacks are WITHIN their OWN community. The fair-skinned child is favored, black men prefer fair-skinned mates with "white" being the top choice, the darker your skin is, the less "acceptable" you are. If you work your butt off to get ahead you are branded an "Uncle Tom" or "Oreo."
What's always cracked me up is that a white racist thinks darker skin is borderline sub-human and yet he/she will head to the beach or tanning salon to get "darker."
It's a VERY sad situation in dire need of reversing.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 12, 2014 16:47:17 GMT -5
Interesting link. Black racism but nothing on white racism. That's because everyone knows all white people are racist so no need to delve further.
On the other hand, damn few people know how racist blacks are WITHIN their OWN community. The fair-skinned child is favored, black men prefer fair-skinned mates with "white" being the top choice, the darker your skin is, the less "acceptable" you are. If you work your butt off to get ahead you are branded an "Uncle Tom" or "Oreo."
What's always cracked me up is that a white racist thinks darker skin is borderline sub-human and yet he/she will head to the beach or tanning salon to get "darker."
It's a VERY sad situation in dire need of reversing.
Not true. Nor or all black people racist. I just found the paranoid, 'Christian' website site interesting: All things negatively black must be posted. WWJD with that blogger.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2014 11:52:35 GMT -5
I love when people respond to a challenge by saying, "I've studied X, therefore my opinion is more valid than yours." Does your above comment apply to your opinion of people who claim to have studied the U.S. Constitution and know exactly what the founders meant because we have a few of those type of posters here too. It applies to anyone who uses that argument, particularly people who state others aren't able to discuss X. I beg your pardon, but I wasn't aware someone died and appointed EVT arbiter of what can and cannot be discussed.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 13, 2014 12:04:30 GMT -5
Does your above comment apply to your opinion of people who claim to have studied the U.S. Constitution and know exactly what the founders meant because we have a few of those type of posters here too. It applies to anyone who uses that argument, particularly people who state others aren't able to discuss X. I beg your pardon, but I wasn't aware someone died and appointed EVT arbiter of what can and cannot be discussed. You will find there are a number of 'EVT' style posters on these boards. Something you will need to get used to.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Sept 13, 2014 17:01:29 GMT -5
It applies to anyone who uses that argument, particularly people who state others aren't able to discuss X. I beg your pardon, but I wasn't aware someone died and appointed EVT arbiter of what can and cannot be discussed. You will find there are a number of 'EVT' style posters on these boards. Something you will need to get used to. I was thinking one thing and typing another maybe-but the point I was getting at I think was directed at those who reject science and take the Bible as literal- as in young Earth creationists.
So yes- I think that anyone having studied the history of the Bible and its authorship is way more qualified to discuss the merits of science v the Bible than one that has no idea who wrote it and blindly accepts whatever is written in it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 14, 2014 14:27:03 GMT -5
Science is subject to change because we are constantly moving along a giant learning curve. Kind of like the more we know, the more we know we don't know. But science is quantifiable, testable, repeatable. Once you have established a scientific fact, it is a fact and is no longer mutable; we may learn more about the fact, to add to our knowledge base, but the fact itself does not change. We will not, for instance, find out at some point in the future that ice forms in water at 80 deg F. Science is based on individual non-mutable facts. Unlike religion, which is based on a collection of beliefs, world views, and cultural values, each religion with it's own set of 'facts' that it believes to be non-mutable. Yes and no. For all practical purposes, yes there exists a corpus of scientific canon rooted in testable, near-universally-accepted fact. But - the pool of immutable scientific canon is notably small, and in particular too small to subsume any of the truly contentious political issues circa 2014, despite how "totally settled" some may claim them to be
- even longstanding canon is subject to revision or total invalidation. For example, the fundamental laws of electromagnetic theory (and indeed the prevailing unified field theory of today) preclude the existence of magnetic monopoles. It is well known that it is physically impossible to isolate a magnetic "charge". This has been a rock solid "fact" for 150 years now. Yet recently a certain group out of Princeton conducted an experiment where, as far as can be observed, they were able to create a pair of magnetic monopoles in a quantum lattice. If their observations are in fact valid, this is no simple aggregation into our existing knowledge base. It requires a fundamental rethinking of what is physically possible.
- the purpose of entire disciplines such as metaphysics is to challenge and uproot the more stable elements of scientific canon, even as far as the basic postulates of existence. To the metaphysicist, there is no such thing as a fact that "is no longer mutable".
- water can in fact form ice at 80 degrees F
Do I expect researchers to claim the moon is really made of green cheese at some point in the future? No. I agree there's a useful limit to challenging established scientific canon, even if it turns out to be wrong. But having said that, by no means is modern science a perfect construct where knowledge is heaped upon an immutable pile such as in mathematics. It is subject to revision, invalidation, large chunks being torn out, others dying quiet deaths. In short, the facts themselves do in fact change.
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