Family advice...

[The Captain]

So...

My sister and were discussing a few things about Dad and a topic came up upon which we need to be in agreement. 

Long story short - it appears the wheels are falling off the wagon where our brother is concerned.  For those of you who don't know the backstory, our Mom had our brother (and another boy who passed at a young age) from her first marriage, got divorced and married our Dad a few years later.  Our Dad has raised our brother since he was 5.

Brother made growing up difficult, and Dad didn't put up with any of his bullshit well.  It was a relief when our brother moved out of the house.

It took him about 20 years longer then most to finish growing up and for awhile it seemed like he finally got his shit together.  Our Mom passed away over 5 years ago then about three years ago brother stopped returning phone calls etc. 

The only contact we've had directly with him is when Dad left a message (after many messages from all three of us) telling brother he was going to change his will and wanted his input.  That was almost 1.5 years ago. 

We still keep tabs on brother via his spouse, who supposedly is was at a total loss as to what was going on.  I get a text last weekend from DBIL saying by brother is/has been using again and is tired of having to work for a living.  This has been going on for some time and apparently my BIL is at the end of his rope and was looking for suggestions.  He was ordered by my brother not to tell us about the situation, but needs help.

I've got nothing that can help. 

I passed this information on to Sis who is wondering if we should tell our Dad.  It wouldn't make any difference since there is not a damn thing we can do and it will only make Dad worry (because contrary to brother's belief, he does care about him).

The conversation also expanded to what should we do if something were to happen to Dad (or either of us).  Bro has made it crystal clear he doesn't give a damn about us and would apparently prefer it if we weren't in his life. 

Fine.  Too bad he's missing out on knowing his only niece, who is a great kid - but that's his loss.

I'm of the mind if he was engaged in his family he would actually try to return a call a few times a year at least.  Sis thinks we have an obligation to keep a promise to our mom not to fight among ourselves (like she did with her brother).

So long story.  I just really don't want to deal with any more drama and prefer to leave things as they are, since that appears to be what bro wants.  Sis isn't entirely in agreement but since I've been the one in contact with the BIL wants me to maintian the communication.

So really just a bit of a mini-vent.  DH just shakes his head when I ask for his thoughts and tells me he can't even relate.

[Tennesseer]

For your mother's sake, keep the lines open.  It is your brother's move though at this time.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I can't relate either.  But I like to think that I'd continue to send holiday and b-day cards/emails to brother and his family.  That way they've got a way to contact you if/when they want to.  It's not so much maintaining the connection as not slamming the door on it. 

And if sister wants to try, pass on the info you have to her and then let her do her thing. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I can relate to an extent.   I'm praying my brother doesn't go another 20+ years being a "lost cause".

I would wash my hands of it. 

 I am not big on the idea that since I am "family" I have some sort of obligation to put up with whatever crap/drama is slung my way. If I wouldn't take this from a stranger why does family get a free pas?

I'd tell sister I am out, if she feels compelled to keep a promise to your mother then it is up to her to figure it all out and keep the lines of communication open.

Sounds like BIL, his wife and you have "seen the light" whereas your sister hasn't come around yet to your brother being a lost cause. That doesn't mean you're obligated to continue immersing yourself in the drama.

If brother ever cleans up his act you can reach out, but you shouldn't feel obligated to invite him and his baggage into your life simply because you share DNA.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I'm not sure that a phone call or email once a year or so is really inviting him and his baggage into her life though.  I'm thinking of the "hey, thinking about you.  Hope everything's ok" type ones and not expecting an answer.  To me, that's just keeping the door open.  But my extended family is boring and stable and doesn't do much in the way of drama. 

And I've got a conference call to get ready for so I'm posting and running.  Sorry. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I stopped talking to my brother for a year. We'd play nice at family holidays for our parents' sake but otherwise I never talked to him.

At certain points has been so full of drama and been such a draining vortex that cutting off all communication was what I needed to regain my breathing space.

Doesn't mean I don't care about my brother. When he stops being a douchecanoe I am happy to reopen the lines of communication. But when he gets into one of his drama fests I bow out.

There has been times when you might assume we're strangers considering how little we communicate.   For me it's better that way, if we talk I get sucked in.  I don't want to be sucked in anymore.

Hopefully we don't have to play this game for the rest of our lives, but if we do and it continues after our parents are gone I don't feel any obligation to keep ties with him. He's free to live his life as he pleases.

[NancysSummerSip]

I'd keep the lines open, but avoid the drama and the dollars. It's his decision, and I hope he comes around eventually. But he appears to be of sufficiently sound mind to decide, even if he does have the common sense of a pet rock.

[sesfw]

It's not so much maintaining the connection as not slamming the door on it.

 

[toomuchreality]

My brother (as a young-ish adult) stopped contacting everyone in our family for 20-30 yrs. No one seemed to know why. I tried a few times to contact him through the owner of the place where my brother shot pool, but no reply. Then I gave up, other than checking the internet once in awhile. Eventually, my daughter told me she had found him on Facebook. I had dropped my FB account, but reopened it, in order to contact him. I sent him a brief note, saying I'd love to hear from him and gave my phone number. I told him if he didn't want contact, I would not bother him again. My phone rang within 5 minutes! For the next year almost, he and I spent LOTS of time together. We had been close growing up. One day, I asked him why he had stopped all contact. It turned out to have nothing to do with any of us that were still alive at that point. (whew!) He just felt like if he was not going to one person, he couldn't contact any of us. It was approximately 11 months after re-establishing contact, that my brother came over to my place and died from a heart attack, immediately after closing my front door.

There are a lot of things about facebook that I don't like. However, I will always be grateful to them, for being able to reconnect with my brother through them.

While my story and history are different, some things are similar. I always thought that drugs were the reason my brother stopped contact, or that he was in jail/prison due to drugs. I couldn't have been more wrong. Although I missed out on a good portion of his life (and he in mine/ours), I'm so glad to have shared the last year of his life with him. I'm SO glad he wasn't alone when he died and that our family knew what happened to him (and when).

I'm sorry for what you are going through. The people I know that are real 'druggies', are not people I want contact with much. They tend to take as much as you'll give them, and steal a bunch more -even from friends and family.

Good luck in your decision!

[haapai]

Please help me and some other posters out here.  I'm willing to make a fool out of myself to get the backstory clear.  Does your half-brother have a husband?  It might not make much difference in the emotional dynamics, but knowing the proper terms of address might make a few ponderers willing to chime in.

FWIW, folks whose lives aren't going so well due to an addiction are often inclined to keep family members at a distance.  It's not animosity, just embarrassment and the fear that just about any contact or communication will reveal just how far they've let things go. 

[whoisjohngalt]

I am sorry you are dealing with this.

[The Captain]

Aug 20, 2014 21:25:12 GMT -5 haapai said:

Please help me and some other posters out here.  I'm willing to make a fool out of myself to get the backstory clear.  Does your half-brother have a husband?  It might not make much difference in the emotional dynamics, but knowing the proper terms of address might make a few ponderers willing to chime in.

FWIW, folks whose lives aren't going so well due to an addiction are often inclined to keep family members at a distance.  It's not animosity, just embarrassment and the fear that just about any contact or communication will reveal just how far they've let things go. 

Yes my brother is Gay.  He believes I have an issue with that (as opposed to the drugs, and numerous sex partners whom he bragged about not even being able to name, two bankruptcies, other behavior, etc).  He even had me convinced for awhile some of that  behavior was a part of "normal" gay culture as opposed to his own dysfunction.  

He's been into creating drama and being self destructive and destructive of those around him, his whole life.  There was crap he created when my mom was dying that we didn't need to deal with then he disappears when things need to be dealt with.  It's just who he is.

I've been in marital counseling before and family background is discussed.  My counselor believed my brother exhibits signs of being a narcissist  psychopath and I can't argue based on what I can find.  Whatever.  I'm aware (and always have been) that I need to maintain certain boundaries with him.  

Family is very important to me, and Sis and I made a deathbed promise to our Mom.  Dad is hurting because he feels like he failed his wife and son and can't figure out why contact was cut off.  I admit my Dad is not a saint, but he did the best he could in a crappy situation and my brother didn't help things out at all.

Of COURSE there's more crap, but that's a bit more of the back story.  

I also realize that exacting a deathbed promise on people is a crappy thing to do, especially when you know it's likely to only be honored by some of those involved.

[The Captain]

Aug 20, 2014 14:43:29 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

I'd keep the lines open, but avoid the drama and the dollars. It's his decision, and I hope he comes around eventually. But he appears to be of sufficiently sound mind to decide, even if he does have the common sense of a pet rock.

I just want to clarify something here.  The original will was drawn up when Mom was still alive and named all three children equally.  This was done before DD was born.

After Mom died, Dad moved, changed counties, and wanted to change the will to give his granddaughter something.  Since I'd benefit (indirectly) I asked Dad to discuss it with my Sis and Brother and told him that he should get them to agree, or at least discuss, what he wanted to do (I also told him I didn't think I should be part of that conversation).

Dad tried calling brother for 6 months and left numerous messages.  It was only when he finally mentioned the will that a call was returned.

[Waffle]

I feel sorry for your BIL - but other than suggesting he look into Nar-Anon.  I've got nothing.  As for you, I agree with others that you keep communication lines open in case your brother ever wants to re-connect. 

[The Captain]

Aug 21, 2014 7:58:46 GMT -5 Waffle said:

I feel sorry for your BIL - but other than suggesting he look into Nar-Anon.  I've got nothing.  As for you, I agree with others that you keep communication lines open in case your brother ever wants to re-connect. 

He has been in private counseling for, oh, about 40 years now, so he is getting guidance. This truly isn't meant to be a snark, but it's my understanding that for Nar-Anon to work you have to give up ALL drugs - not just the hard ones because it's an addictive behavior issue.  There are some things that he will never give up until he hits rock bottom.

My biggest concern right now is that he will screw up the one really good thing he's done in his life - and that's his marriage.  My BIL is the best thing for my brother and he's pissing that relationship away as well.  If he screws that up then I could see my brother ending up on the streets.

The fact that my BIL reached out to me for advice tells me how bad it's getting, cause he's put up with a lot of shit during their marriage.

[thyme4change]

I think Nar-Anon is for the family of drug users.  Like Al-Anon.  I think it is a suggestion for your brother's husband.

[Waffle]

Aug 21, 2014 8:58:30 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I think Nar-Anon is for the family of drug users.  Like Al-Anon.  I think it is a suggestion for your brother's husband.

[The Captain]

Aug 21, 2014 9:03:53 GMT -5 Waffle said:

Aug 21, 2014 8:58:30 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I think Nar-Anon is for the family of drug users.  Like Al-Anon.  I think it is a suggestion for your brother's husband.

Sorry!!! Completely missed that!

[Waffle]

Captain,

That's ok - the whole situation is probably stressing you out.

[NancysSummerSip]

Aug 21, 2014 6:57:15 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Aug 20, 2014 14:43:29 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

I'd keep the lines open, but avoid the drama and the dollars. It's his decision, and I hope he comes around eventually. But he appears to be of sufficiently sound mind to decide, even if he does have the common sense of a pet rock.

I just want to clarify something here.  The original will was drawn up when Mom was still alive and named all three children equally.  This was done before DD was born.

After Mom died, Dad moved, changed counties, and wanted to change the will to give his granddaughter something.  Since I'd benefit (indirectly) I asked Dad to discuss it with my Sis and Brother and told him that he should get them to agree, or at least discuss, what he wanted to do (I also told him I didn't think I should be part of that conversation).

Dad tried calling brother for 6 months and left numerous messages.  It was only when he finally mentioned the will that a call was returned.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant your personal, here-and-now dollars. Whatever the will is, and whether it can be altered, is something the legal eagles can let you know about. I meant your own money (or your dad's own money) should not be going to to your brother, since he is apparently perfectly capable of contacting you, but apparently will not do so...until a whiff of possible money made its appearance.

[Tennesseer]

The Captain - do your brother and BIL live local? Would it be possible to discuss a family intervention with the BIL? It reads like their marriage is starting to disintegrate so the BIL may have nothing to lose by organizing an intervention.

It almost reads like a self-fulfilling prophecy on your brother's part:  a life full of past and present demons and an early death to escape them.

[The Captain]

Aug 21, 2014 9:18:27 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The Captain - do your brother and BIL live local? Would it be possible to discuss a family intervention with the BIL? It reads like their marriage is starting to disintegrate so the BIL may have nothing to lose by organizing an intervention.

It almost reads like a self-fulfilling prophecy on your brother's part:  a life full of past and present demons and an early death to escape them.

No - they are a four hour plane flight away. 

BIL has been through the intervention thing with my brother already, he's got a lot more experience in this area then I do.  BIL is the one that helped my brother get clean the first time.  And honestly, right now I don't know how much of an emotional connection my brother has with us right now (and isn't that needed for an intervention to work?)

[Tennesseer]

Aug 21, 2014 9:47:30 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Aug 21, 2014 9:18:27 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The Captain - do your brother and BIL live local? Would it be possible to discuss a family intervention with the BIL? It reads like their marriage is starting to disintegrate so the BIL may have nothing to lose by organizing an intervention.

It almost reads like a self-fulfilling prophecy on your brother's part:  a life full of past and present demons and an early death to escape them.

No - they are a four hour plane flight away. 

BIL has been through the intervention thing with my brother already, he's got a lot more experience in this area then I do.  BIL is the one that helped my brother get clean the first time.  And honestly, right now I don't know how much of an emotional connection my brother has with us right now (and isn't that needed for an intervention to work?)

Understand about the distance.  Very tough to do.

As for the emotional connection-I think it is still there.  But whatever is driving your brother's demons is also causing the distance.  Personal shame comes to mind.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Interventions only work if the person who is using WANTS to get clean. Otherwise it's a dog and pony show.

Pay attention when the show is on A&E sometime. DH and I watch it occasionally and he has a real knack for picking out who at the end will be sober and who quit/relapsed. In general the ones who go to please/shut up family end up going straight back to old habits. The ones that go because they want to go stay clean.

DH's mother begged/cried/pleaded, his sister drug him to Narc-anon meetings with her. NOTHING worked until the day DH woke up and hated the person he saw in the mirror.   He said he had to hit the proverbial "rock bottom" before he decided enough was enough.

Even on the show a few times they've explained to family that the intervention is more for them so they can be at peace that they have tried everything and to be prepared for the addict to refuse. Nothing can be done without the addict accepting they have a problem and need help.

[haapai]

Aug 21, 2014 7:58:46 GMT -5 Waffle said:

I feel sorry for your BIL - but other than suggesting he look into Nar-Anon.  I've got nothing.  As for you, I agree with others that you keep communication lines open in case your brother ever wants to re-connect. 

I wish this could all be made better by telling your brother that you, your sister, your dad and your respective families were renting a house in Saugatuck for a week and that the fourth bedroom was for him and hubby.  But addictions are tougher than that. 

[greeniis10]

Aug 20, 2014 20:54:07 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

My brother (as a young-ish adult) stopped contacting everyone in our family for 20-30 yrs. No one seemed to know why. I tried a few times to contact him through the owner of the place where my brother shot pool, but no reply. Then I gave up, other than checking the internet once in awhile. Eventually, my daughter told me she had found him on Facebook. I had dropped my FB account, but reopened it, in order to contact him. I sent him a brief note, saying I'd love to hear from him and gave my phone number. I told him if he didn't want contact, I would not bother him again. My phone rang within 5 minutes! For the next year almost, he and I spent LOTS of time together. We had been close growing up. One day, I asked him why he had stopped all contact. It turned out to have nothing to do with any of us that were still alive at that point. (whew!) He just felt like if he was not going to one person, he couldn't contact any of us. It was approximately 11 months after re-establishing contact, that my brother came over to my place and died from a heart attack, immediately after closing my front door.

There are a lot of things about facebook that I don't like. However, I will always be grateful to them, for being able to reconnect with my brother through them.

While my story and history are different, some things are similar. I always thought that drugs were the reason my brother stopped contact, or that he was in jail/prison due to drugs. I couldn't have been more wrong. Although I missed out on a good portion of his life (and he in mine/ours), I'm so glad to have shared the last year of his life with him. I'm SO glad he wasn't alone when he died and that our family knew what happened to him (and when).

I'm sorry for what you are going through. The people I know that are real 'druggies', are not people I want contact with much. They tend to take as much as you'll give them, and steal a bunch more -even from friends and family.

Good luck in your decision!

Not to derail the thread, Captain, but I just wanted to say to toomuchreality I'm so sorry this happened!  But, yes, it was very good that you were able to reconnect with him and be there for him and with him. 

[greeniis10]

And on topic, I'm so sorry you, too, Captain are dealing with this.  And your family.  The hard thing about watching a drug addict or alcoholic is the helpless feeling.  They can't be helped until or unless they want help.  I'd continue to let your brother know you are available should he want to communicate, but within YOUR boundaries.