Calling all Canadians/Home Improvement shows...

[The Captain]

Ok, so I'm a HGTV junkie.  A lot of their shows are filmed in the Toronto area.  Some of my favorites include:

Property brothers ( )
Income Property ( )

Love it or list it

Etc.

On the shows they will often mention the cost of the house and the mortgage.  I just can't get the math to line up in my head.

For example house cost $450K, rennovations of $100K will leave them with a mortgage of $1800 a month?

It just wouldn't work in the US!!! Are they putting like, 50-60% down?  Does Canada have 100 year mortgages? 

And the people on the shows are usually pretty young, does Canada have a lot more trust fund babies then the US or does these shows just feature the top 5%?

While I love to watch the shows, the costs just make me feel...inadequate.

[NancysSummerSip]

Seriously. We looked at property when we visited Toronto. It's just danged expensive up thataway. The house across from my cousin's home was about to hit the market. Fifty-year-old home, no renovations, other than a wheelchair ramp added to it. Cousin told me it would sell within a week, regardless of price. I was not impressed...the outside of it looked like the exterior from The Addams Family.

Turns out he was (almost) right. Took 10 days. Sold for over a half-million.

Oh, and I'll share a Property Brother. Either one will do.

[swasat]

Income Property 

[justme]

What's crazier is the number of people that live in the Toronto area have cottages up north on a lake. The people who bought the cottage next to ours for prob around $300k had a 3 story townhouse near downtown Toronto that probably cost twice the price of the cottage if not more!

[Deleted]

For example house cost $450K, rennovations of $100K will leave them with a mortgage of $1800 a month?

The math is kind of sketchy with those guys. They don't include the cost of the reno in the mortgage cost and most of them must have about 20% down. Plus here we only get up to 5 yrs and we have to renegotiate. So your great rate this year might jump sky high by the time you need to renew.

[The Captain]

Aug 14, 2014 12:46:06 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

For example house cost $450K, rennovations of $100K will leave them with a mortgage of $1800 a month?

The math is kind of sketchy with those guys. They don't include the cost of the reno in the mortgage cost and most of them must have about 20% down. Plus here we only get up to 5 yrs and we have to renegotiate. So your great rate this year might jump sky high by the time you need to renew.

I did not know that?  I'd hear that in Canada, mortgage interest is not an income tax deduction, is that true?

[Wisconsin Beth]

Aug 14, 2014 12:40:36 GMT -5 justme said:

What's crazier is the number of people that live in the Toronto area have cottages up north on a lake. The people who bought the cottage next to ours for prob around $300k had a 3 story townhouse near downtown Toronto that probably cost twice the price of the cottage if not more!

I don't know about lake land in Canada but I've been invited to a cousins thing at a cabin up north in a pretty pricey area.  The owners of it and their neighbors were really good friends who each bought lots in the 50s and helped build each others places.  But they were dirt cheap in the 50s-60s.  And I think they said the building cost was $10K or so.  I'm guessing it's worth $500K now and the new owners would probably tear down the place and rebuild. 

[Deleted]

Aug 14, 2014 12:48:31 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Aug 14, 2014 12:46:06 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

The math is kind of sketchy with those guys. They don't include the cost of the reno in the mortgage cost and most of them must have about 20% down. Plus here we only get up to 5 yrs and we have to renegotiate. So your great rate this year might jump sky high by the time you need to renew.

I did not know that?  I'd hear that in Canada, mortgage interest is not an income tax deduction, is that true?

It isn't. I get very jealous about this stuff when I read American threads. Then I read about your health care bills and feel better

[justme]

Aug 14, 2014 12:51:38 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Aug 14, 2014 12:40:36 GMT -5 justme said:

What's crazier is the number of people that live in the Toronto area have cottages up north on a lake. The people who bought the cottage next to ours for prob around $300k had a 3 story townhouse near downtown Toronto that probably cost twice the price of the cottage if not more!

I don't know about lake land in Canada but I've been invited to a cousins thing at a cabin up north in a pretty pricey area.  The owners of it and their neighbors were really good friends who each bought lots in the 50s and helped build each others places.  But they were dirt cheap in the 50s-60s.  And I think they said the building cost was $10K or so.  I'm guessing it's worth $500K now and the new owners would probably tear down the place and rebuild. 

Oh, it's pricey. I think the mansion, I mean cottage, across the bay from us is on the market for $2M. There's several mansions out on their own island that are on the market for a few million. Only reason why the cottage is in our family is because someone bought the land 100+ years ago and built the cottage we have about 80 years ago. The cottage next to us was around $300k 11 years ago, it's worth a lot more now I'm sure - less land but bigger/newer cottage than us. I know the tax assessment is getting close to $500k for our place. Which sucks big time for whoever inherits it.

[Wisconsin Beth]

My point, which I didn't really explain at all, is that if they're buying new, it could be expensive.  but if it's family land, it may have been held for a while. 

[lexxy703]

I was watching Property Brothers recently & this couple had $850k budget.  All they could get for that was a falling down old 2 story or a newer strange 5 story town house.  Here it would get you 5 bed 4 bath & a gourmet kitchen.  I wa shocked at the price there.  Not sure what small city they were in.

I used to love Candace & Genevieve design shows.  I sort of burnt out though.

[Deleted]

Aug 14, 2014 13:04:21 GMT -5 lexxy703 said:

I was watching Property Brothers recently & this couple had $850k budget.  All they could get for that was a falling down old 2 story or a newer strange 5 story town house.  Here it would get you 5 bed 4 bath & a gourmet kitchen.  I wa shocked at the price there.  Not sure what small city they were in.

I used to love Candace & Genevieve design shows.  I sort of burnt out though.

It really depends on what part of town you are in and from what I hear Vancouver is worse than Toronto for housing prices. I look at these kids buying these places and wonder what the heck they do for a living. That is crazy to me.

[The Captain]

Well I guess I feel a little bit better that I can't afford the zip code...

[justme]

Aug 14, 2014 13:03:51 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

My point, which I didn't really explain at all, is that if they're buying new, it could be expensive.  but if it's family land, it may have been held for a while. 

Ah, yeah well a lot of the old families that have been around for a while are having to sell. Canada doesn't let you inherit property tax free (there may be something about primary residence, but I don't know since that doesn't concern us). I believe that half of the capital gains is taxable and income tax rates up to 25%. So if your parents inherited the house and it was valued at $200k and you inherit it and it's worth $400k. You owe tax on half of that $200k gain, or ~$25k. Taxes that huge are pricing a lot of people out of the area even if it's been in their families for decades. A lot of people around us have had the property in their families for less than 20 years even though the cottages have been around much longer.

[Wisconsin Beth]

interesting.  What about trusts?  Could the land be placed in some kind of trust?

[justme]

That I don't know - not sure if trusts work the same up there as here. But I'm assuming you'd have to have the money to pay for the taxes to transfer it into the trust, which none of us have right now. Well, my parents have more than that in savings, but they're retired so it's for that not so their kids can get the cottage for free. It's definitely something to look into at some point, and probably one of the first things I'd do if I ever won the lottery. 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

The host of "Million Dollar Rooms" on HGTV Canada (Carter Osterhouse) is certainly no slouch:

[TheHaitian]

Aug 14, 2014 13:13:00 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Aug 14, 2014 13:04:21 GMT -5 lexxy703 said:

I was watching Property Brothers recently & this couple had $850k budget.  All they could get for that was a falling down old 2 story or a newer strange 5 story town house.  Here it would get you 5 bed 4 bath & a gourmet kitchen.  I wa shocked at the price there.  Not sure what small city they were in.

I used to love Candace & Genevieve design shows.  I sort of burnt out though.

It really depends on what part of town you are in and from what I hear Vancouver is worse than Toronto for housing prices. I look at these kids buying these places and wonder what the heck they do for a living. That is crazy to me.

Now I feel better, I thought I was the only one wondering how people my age or younger were able to afford 600-750-900k houses.

[Peace77]

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought of the Red Green Show.  
 Man, that was funny.

[truthbound]

Aug 14, 2014 12:31:54 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Ok, so I'm a HGTV junkie.  A lot of their shows are filmed in the Toronto area.  Some of my favorites include:

Property brothers ( )
Income Property ( )

Love it or list it

Etc.

On the shows they will often mention the cost of the house and the mortgage.  I just can't get the math to line up in my head.

For example house cost $450K, rennovations of $100K will leave them with a mortgage of $1800 a month?

It just wouldn't work in the US!!! Are they putting like, 50-60% down?  Does Canada have 100 year mortgages? 

And the people on the shows are usually pretty young, does Canada have a lot more trust fund babies then the US or does these shows just feature the top 5%?

While I love to watch the shows, the costs just make me feel...inadequate.

LOL I understand your confusion. Based on what they show apparently all Canadians are rich and can afford half million dollar homes. And no they aren't putting down 50%. If the gotta have it now generation is putting down anything it is at best a few thousand. That is only if they can't get one of the no down payment variable interest arm loans. They are the reason the housing market tanked to begin with. That aside it's tv. Of the shows you mentioned the worst offender is Love It or List It where Hilary (who by the way is just an actress) runs into a myriad of problems which she has to solve in order to get the job done. You could give her 100k to slap paint and screens on a doublewide and she always needs more money. And Jonathan's renovation budget on the Property Brothers always ends up being the exact difference between the purchase price and the max budget even if he is only installing new counters. The real question is why none of these assholes haven't been sued.

Take it for what it is. Entertainment.

[zibazinski]

Income property. Did anyone watch the first few shows where Scott said not to put in improvements that you wouldn't get back out in a year? That quickly changed to outrageous improvements that tenants will love and then ruin ASAP for not much rent. I'm sorry. I'm not putting in an 80k renovation for $800 a month rent. Are you on drugs? But I have stolen a lot of his cheap but look great ideas for my rentals. Including his vinyl plank flooring that he put in a basement. I put it in my Oregon rental because its always raining there and it looks like wood but waterproof, basically. The tenants love it and so do I. Next year when I sell that place, it will be a huge draw. It's the other rental that I will have to recarpet and make sure no one walks on it before anyone asks. But if I were going to keep rentals, I'd do it everywhere but the bedrooms.

[Deleted]

And Jonathan's renovation budget on the Property Brothers always ends up being the exact difference between the purchase price and the max budget

Well since they come up with the budget by subtracting the purchase price from the max budget...

[greeniis10]

I decided a while back to watch those shows for entertainment value only because I could never get the numbers to add up, either.

BTW, John Gidding from "Curb Appeal" was once a runway model and a model for the covers of romance books!  I don't know how to link things here, but do a Google search for his name and "book covers".  Personally, I don't think he's attractive but I must be in the minority...

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 14, 2014 13:13:00 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Aug 14, 2014 13:04:21 GMT -5 lexxy703 said:

I was watching Property Brothers recently & this couple had $850k budget.  All they could get for that was a falling down old 2 story or a newer strange 5 story town house.  Here it would get you 5 bed 4 bath & a gourmet kitchen.  I wa shocked at the price there.  Not sure what small city they were in.

I used to love Candace & Genevieve design shows.  I sort of burnt out though.

It really depends on what part of town you are in and from what I hear Vancouver is worse than Toronto for housing prices. I look at these kids buying these places and wonder what the heck they do for a living. That is crazy to me.

Vancouver IS crazy, I don't see how anyone can afford to live there.  TD's mom's house is worth well over $1 million and a comparable house here would run about $300K, and it's on a teeny piece of property.

And what's sad is that when 'normal' sized houses sell (2000-3000 sq ft), they are razed for the property and these huge, 7000+ sq ft monstrosities are built.  A nice, well kept, charming house in his mom's neighborhood was just sold and razed and we drove by last weekend and it's already staked out for another monstrosity.  

[truthbound]

Aug 15, 2014 8:39:12 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

And Jonathan's renovation budget on the Property Brothers always ends up being the exact difference between the purchase price and the max budget

Well since they come up with the budget by subtracting the purchase price from the max budget...

Umm ok that was my point. Every week it is the same. They could buy a doublewide for 5k with a max budget of 500k and Jonathan's projected costs for the renovation is 495k whether he is replacing the cabinets or painting a wall.