Musings on cheap luxuries and expensive necessities

[NastyWoman]

After reading this thread I started wondering: what if our parents had had access to a board like this and followed the advice given about whether/ when to have kids? How many of us would not exist today to complain about others not following the rules we think they ought to follow regarding procreation? 

Personally I would be a toss-up. While my parents could afford 3 kids (I'm #3), I think that was not true when I came around. It's all in the timing! And what about the 4 they had after me? Or maybe my older brothers would never have existed?

so would you be around to be part of this on-line community?

[Deleted]

My parents were 16 and 18 when I was born.

That said they also lived in a shack with wood heat and an ecolet/outhouse and dad didn't think that selling plasma was a joke suggestion... 

And 'what a kid needs' has definately changed since I came along...

[NancysSummerSip]

Yup, since I am the firstborn. Next child died, then two brothers. So the youngest might not be here, had the second child survived.

[truthbound]

It would have made no difference. They would not have had kids if they could not have afforded it.

[happyhoix]

May 4, 2014 4:17:23 GMT -5 truthbound said:

It would have made no difference. They would not have had kids if they could not have afforded it.

Well, I don't know how old you are, but BC wasn't really reliable until the pill came along in the 60's.

My mom is 84 and only her first 3 kids were planned, the fourth, born 7 years after the first 3, was an accident.

I think if my dad had his way, I wouldn't be here, because I'm the 3rd daughter. I think my dad would have been fine stopping at 2, but my mother loved babies (not as fond as the kids they grew into ) and she wanted a third.  She also wanted to try once more for a boy (my name was supposed to be David - when I wasn't the right sex, Grandma had to name me, as they had no back up female name planned. I guess I should be glad I'm not Davinia.)

However her fourth baby was made while she was using some kind of foam BC, which evidently didn't work well.

So while it's nice to say that your parents or grandparents were responsible and would not have had kids if they couldn't afford them, the means to prevent unwanted pregnancies might not have been there at the time.

[Deleted]

HA! Rumor has it that #2, #3 and #5 were planned and the other 3 were "happy accidents". So, of course, us "wanted ones" added it to our teasing arsenals. 

[hoops902]

May 3, 2014 16:47:18 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Yup, since I am the firstborn. Next child died, then two brothers. So the youngest might not be here, had the second child survived.

Doesn't matter if you're firstborn though.  If your parents waited a year, a month, a week to conceive..."you" would not be here.  We might see BradsNewYearDrink posting instead.

[NancysSummerSip]

May 5, 2014 12:22:25 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

May 3, 2014 16:47:18 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Yup, since I am the firstborn. Next child died, then two brothers. So the youngest might not be here, had the second child survived.

Doesn't matter if you're firstborn though.  If your parents waited a year, a month, a week to conceive..."you" would not be here.  We might see BradsNewYearDrink posting instead.

But...but...would you like Brad as much as me?

[resolution]

You guys would have disapproved of my parents' choices for location to live, having kids, buying a house, and profession. However if you met them now you would consider my parents very similar to phil.

[tskeeter]

May 3, 2014 15:57:46 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

After reading this thread I started wondering: what if our parents had had access to a board like this and followed the advice given about whether/ when to have kids? How many of us would not exist today to complain about others not following the rules we think they ought to follow regarding procreation? 

Personally I would be a toss-up. While my parents could afford 3 kids (I'm #3), I think that was not true when I came around. It's all in the timing! And what about the 4 they had after me? Or maybe my older brothers would never have existed?

so would you be around to be part of this on-line community?

While what you say may be true, I think times are different.  Back when I was born, parents pretty much had to support their own family.  Or rely on their extended family for help.  This was before the war on poverty led to public housing, section 8, expansive welfare, AFDC, WIC, SNAP, dependent income tax deductions, child care tax deductions, and EIC.  In those days, a poor family was really poor.  Not just labled as poor, but capable of living close to a middle class lifestyle on public assistance.

Another thing to remember is that in the olden days, when I was born, in rural areas, large families were often the labor force.  Farming was less specialized and significantly less automated, so you needed a bunch of kids to help with the chores that allowed the farm to function.  And the same was true of families that owned retail stores, restaurants, and the like.  The kids worked in the business, which allowed it to be successful.  As an illustration of what went on, a classmate of my older brother was killed when the tractor he was plowing with rolled over on him.  He was , I believe, 13 years old.  All of our male classmates from farming families had farming chores and were actively participating in operating the family farm at what we now consider to be a young age.  Large families of kids were often an asset, not overhead, in those days.    

[midjd]

May 5, 2014 12:38:25 GMT -5 resolution said:

You guys would have disapproved of my parents' choices for location to live, having kids, buying a house, and profession. However if you met them now you would consider my parents very similar to phil.

 Same goes for my ILs.

MIL was 19 when SIL was born, and 23 when DH was born. She had a HS education and FIL was an 8th grade dropout. MIL called in sick to work every other Tuesday (payday was every other Wednesday) because she couldn't afford to put gas in the car. DH slept in a dresser drawer. They cashed out everything they owned (which wasn't much) to start FIL's business in the late 80s. But it was a gamble that paid off. By the time younger SIL was born, they were making 6 figures.

Glad they weren't YMers.

[Sam_2.0]

You find a way to do what matters to you. Money is a consideration, but not everyone's #1 priority. Most people find a way to make things happen when they want to. Out of the 4 of us, only my sister (#2) was actually planned for. The rest of us were happy accidents (so they say). After #4 though they made sure there would be no more. My mom stayed home after my sister was born and remains a SAHM. My dad didn't make a ton of $$ but they found a way to make things work. Family was more of a priority than travelling and getting stuff. So that's where their money went.

[lynnerself]

My parents planned all 4 of us. And this was in the 50s and 60s. Even down to having us born in the spring/summer and 2 or 3 years apart.

[sheilaincali]

My parents planned for me. My brother was a bit of a surprise and they planned to have me 4 years later. My younger siblings are the result of a broken condom and the false idea that you can't get pregnant while breastfeeding. Younger brother and sister are one year apart in age.

Honestly my parents were really pretty YM back in the day. My dad became the guru of the townhouse area we lived in and taught everyone how to cheaply insult their rented townhomes to reduce their heating bills.  For many years our only vacations were weekend camping trips.  Dinners out were saved for birthdays. We did order pizza on Fridays with a coupon. 

We didn't go on a family vacation other than camping until I was 14 or 15.

 They paid for all of us kids to go to college (I paid for my last couple of years myself).  My mom finished her degree while my dad was in the Seabees during Vietnam.  She moved back home with my brother and lived with grandma.  When my dad got out of the service they stayed with grandma and he worked full time and finished his degree too. 

My dad came to work for a company here in the 80's under the plan that they would sell it to him in 10 years if he could make it profitable.  He started turning a profit after 2 years and they sold it to him 5 years after the first hired him.  He spent the next 15 years buying up all of his competition and other companies in the industry.  At the height of his dynasty we were doing sales in the $20 million range annually.  He sold the big company in 2006 and stayed on managing them for the next 3 years.  Now he "just" has the two companies left- with around 50 employees.  Still kicking at 65. 

If he were on YM he'd be like a Phil or something.  In our industry he is kind of a big deal.  

[CarolinaKat]

My parents wanted me. They tried very hard get me here. I was born about 2 years after they married. However if I talk to Mom about it, they'd been trying for me for at least 3 when she finally became pregnant. I, decide not to tell her I can do math, because Dad would be horrified (and probably never able to look me in the face again) if I knew they were trying before marriage. They also had a very YM wedding, mom even made her wedding gown using dicounted lace from the ends of the rolls. Then they paid grandma to take care of me, allowing me to be with people who loved me and still be a dual income household. It also provided grandma some money. They both worked jobs with a pension and good benefits (like retiree healthcare), so they're ok for retirement, not rolling in money, but ok.

DH, honestly I think would still be here despite being the 5th child from an unwed mother. She just doesn't have the ability to 'see' around corners and know what's coming. This has passed to the kids (how many kids you consider her 'having' depends on how you qualify 'having a kid' so the total is  7 - 10. DH feels like 8 is the correct number so I roll with that.) I think if MIL had posted here, she'd have been a 'poster who shall not be named but got snowflake money.' I love my MIL and all my new siblings and am very glad to have them, but i just don't get the noting being able to predict consequences or not caring what they are. That whole 'planning thing' isn't really their style. One Sister has picked it up and is good about it now, but I think that comes from raising 2 kids on a sgt salary.

[Ombud]

I'm #3 out of 5. Dad was an orphan and mom's dad died when she was 5 (then her mom lost the farm). Good times were always important to my folks even when we were homeless (only 2x). And he always said "own dirt .... always own dirt." Dad joined the Army bc they promised him 2 shoes (a left & right one). And he bought dirt, wound up owning a little piece of downtown SF outright ... about 1.5 acres with a little apartment house. Free and clear. Yep. Own dirt

[truthbound]

May 5, 2014 11:41:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 4, 2014 4:17:23 GMT -5 truthbound said:

It would have made no difference. They would not have had kids if they could not have afforded it.

Well, I don't know how old you are, but BC wasn't really reliable until the pill came along in the 60's.

My mom is 84 and only her first 3 kids were planned, the fourth, born 7 years after the first 3, was an accident.

I think if my dad had his way, I wouldn't be here, because I'm the 3rd daughter. I think my dad would have been fine stopping at 2, but my mother loved babies (not as fond as the kids they grew into ) and she wanted a third.  She also wanted to try once more for a boy (my name was supposed to be David - when I wasn't the right sex, Grandma had to name me, as they had no back up female name planned. I guess I should be glad I'm not Davinia.)

However her fourth baby was made while she was using some kind of foam BC, which evidently didn't work well.

So while it's nice to say that your parents or grandparents were responsible and would not have had kids if they couldn't afford them, the means to prevent unwanted pregnancies might not have been there at the time.

Not unzipping it if you can't afford it didn't work in the 50's? Who knew?

[zibazinski]

It worked in the 30s and  40s. My grandparents tried for a boy and after 5 girls, one died so 4 remained, they slept in separate bedrooms. I'm sure my grandpa didn't like it much but my grandma came from a huge family and no money to feed and clothe them and she wasnt going to go through it again with her kids. She walked to school barefoot holding her shoes so they didn't wear out. But they come from the mind set that you don't breed them if you can't feed them.

[teen persuasion]

I think that I would have been "planned".  My parents did things in the approved YM manner: dad waited to establish his career first and saved for a house, mom was in college and working, they married first and then had the kids, never had any debt but the mortgage.  I'm the oldest, and I know that they made the conscious decision to stop after #4, because dad was 45, and he didn't want to be too old with kids still in the house.

That said, it was a different era.  Mom quit working & college just before I was born.  She was a SAHM, and never learned to drive.  She comes from a large family - 9 children, plus two more her parents took in/adopted after their parents died (they were teens).  Grandma was also a SAHM; even larger families could be supported by a single breadwinner in those days.  Families supported extended family, also.  I never met my maternal grandfather, he died before I was born, so I always remember grandma living with her sister (who never married but did work), and two of their brothers, one a retired widowed farmer, one who was mentally retarded from an injury in childhood (he had done physical labor when younger).  When my grandparents and great aunt moved out to the 'burbs and had that house built they built a double, the larger unit for the big family and the upper for my great aunt and at least the one uncle.  In later years, the siblings lived downstairs and rented out the other apartment.  This house was a modest '50s colonial, nowhere near as big as families today would think they need for a large family, and yet I remember it as very nice and a bit formal.

[milee]

May 6, 2014 7:20:44 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

It worked in the 30s and  40s. My grandparents tried for a boy and after 5 girls, one died so 4 remained, they slept in separate bedrooms. I'm sure my grandpa didn't like it much but my grandma came from a huge family and no money to feed and clothe them and she wasnt going to go through it again with her kids. She walked to school barefoot holding her shoes so they didn't wear out. But they come from the mind set that you don't breed them if you can't feed them.

To be completely accurate, though, you also have to recognize that they had a relationship that might have been unusual for that era where your grandma was able to make that decision and have your grandpa abide by it. That was not the case for all women at that time. Laws against spousal rape didn't exist in many areas until much more recently. In other words, if your grandpa agreed to keep it zipped - no worries, abstinence worked. But if grandma asked him to keep it zipped and he disagreed with that idea - legally grandma had no right to insist on that preference as it was not illegal to have sex with a spouse even if that spouse didn't agree. So keeping it zipped was pretty much in the control of the one person who also wouldn't have been the one that had to carry the child, do all the child rearing work, etc....

Not saying abstinence isn't a valid strategy, just pointing out that it relied solely on the decision of the men at that time.

[bookkeeper]

My husband is one of eleven children born to his parents. They both came from big farm families and wanted a large family themselves. There were often times there wasn't enough money. They did eat the government cheese, but they kept working and the kids went to college and eventually supported themselves. My father in law used to say, "by the time we figured out what was causing it, we were having too much fun to quit!" My husband felt he had a great childhood, with or without the money. His parents valued family more than money and that is what they ended up with.

My mother tells a story of my father's grandmother sitting around after a holiday meal. My father's mother (her daughter) had nine children and in turn she had over 45 grandchildren.  Holidays were quite a crowded affair.  One of my aunts turned to her grandma and asked her why she only had 4 children and not more. She turned to them and said matter of factly, "because I had him pull out before he came."  She was a wise and wonderful woman.  I was lucky to know her. 

[Deleted]

My grandmother is one of 8. My grandfather one of 6. One a farm family. One coal miners. They could 'feed' them... but they wouldn't have been able to participate in today's consumer economy.

[zibazinski]

I'm quite sure my grandfather didnt like it but he also would not have liked the consequences of "raping" my grandmother. I'm sure he also liked eating so was content, if not happy, with four girls.

[giramomma]

My parents only had one, me. Both grew up rather poor. They had food, clothing, and shelter. Not much else. They did a good job for themselves.

My folks also had me "later" in life, at 29. So, they did everything "right." One had a college degree and the other had a 2 year degree, they had savings in the bank, had a modest house, and then had me.

My folks also made it VERY undesirable for me to have a child at 16 or 17. They would have kicked me out of their house. So, it was a little easier to make good decisions when you know if you play with fire there's a good chance you literally would be out on the streets or in shelters..

We had three, and really should have stopped at two. It's the only emotional decision I've ever made with money thus far, and I plan to keep it that way for the rest of my life. There's only so many ways I can make things work, and my options are becoming more and more limited.

[toomuchreality]

Ugh. My mother always told me I was not... hm...   let's say expected. When I left the hospital as a new born, I went to my aunt and uncle's house. I spent a lot of my elementary yrs going between the two houses. It was really confusing to me.

[cronewitch]

My parents had us one a year after they got married three of us in 3.25 years. This was 1947-1949 and then dad got snipped. I think my grandfather did too since they only had two in 1926-1927. I know other women who were married in the 30s who used the coat hanger method of birth control, 4 sisters had a total of 6 children they would abort each other.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I'm a "child of the 50's" - and not "planned" as so many seem to think things have to be. Neither were my brothers.

I'm the only daughter (and youngest of 4) with three older sibling brothers.

I always kidded my parents (much to the chagrin of my older male sibs) that they kept on trying til they got the recipe right.

Of course, when I got married, we discussed producing and raising a family, and if it was right for us with our careers and future expectations, and it was different than when our parents were young newlyweds and options were less available - plus times were different then where the dad went off to work and mom was the home-maker.

Mom was the nurturer and dad was the provider - it's the way it was. Life was simple, but happy and uncomplicated.

We didn't get sent to daycare while mom and dad worked, we didn't get enrolled in every gosh-darn activity we wanted to participate in, and we worked for our "allowance" doing chores around the house to contribute. Whether it was mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, panting, picking in the garden or household chores. Nothing was handed to us on a silver plate because we "deserved" it. We earned our privileges by contributing to the household. We learned valuable lessons lost on so many kids today.


ETA: We didn't miss out - we still got to choose activities and programs we wanted to join - whether band, boy/girl scouts, sports, or artistic endeavors - we just had to pick and choose carefully and stick with the program once we committed ourselves to participate.

[Deleted]

My Mom worked, but she lived with my great-grandmother when I was small. Almost all of my great-grandmother's grandkids and great-grandkids lived with her at some point in their lives. I remember my great grandmother getting me ready for school and taking care of me after school, so I'm pretty sure she watched me as a baby too.

When Mom got pregnant with my younger brother (I was 7yo), we moved into an apartment. A relative would come over to the apartment to watch us while Mom was working. Then she got married and moved away. Then my Mom paid a friend's sister to watch my little brother. Eventually he went to daycare. We stayed in the apartment for a year, then Mom bought a house.

In the summers, I was either tagging along behind my 2 older cousins, at my grandma's house, or at my godmother's house who had 2 daughters a little older than me. Her house was always bursting with people, I loved going over there. Every once in a while I'd go to the country in Mississippi and spend a few days with our cousins there.

My Mom was a single parent and she made decent money when I was a child. She didn't always manage it well, some of her decisions were better than others. She's in her 60's now and I don't think she's ever had a brand new car. She bought modest houses she should've been able to afford, but shopping was/is her weakness.

My brother and I weren't planned, but with the help of her "village", she made it work.