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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 9:26:54 GMT -5
It is kind of bothering me how quickly we all agree to abandon the family, myself included. Their only flaw is not being physically and mentally perfect. Or in dj's case, associating with people that aren't physically perfect. They might be the hardest workers of the group for all we know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 9:29:12 GMT -5
We have to abandon the Mom - she's diabetic and the insulin is going to run out sooner or later.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Jan 31, 2014 9:31:09 GMT -5
I already fixed the life boat that got us to the island. my "anti black" views will melt away once i have to work together with cereb and we fall in love one night under the tropical moon. trust me. you want me on your team.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 9:34:52 GMT -5
We have to abandon the Mom - she's diabetic and the insulin is going to run out sooner or later. Ok, if she won't survive anyway I can live with that. But dj and virgil can be useful.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 31, 2014 9:37:27 GMT -5
I already fixed the life boat that got us to the island. my "anti black" views will melt away once i have to work together with cereb and we fall in love one night under the tropical moon. trust me. you want me on your team. It says you "sympathize" with anti-black views, not necessarily that you have anti-black views. It seems to me that you're more of a closet racist. You wouldn't confront a black person or personally express your misgivings about blacks, but if somebody else does, you don't really have a problem with it. I've read too many times to count that "mentally disabled" children (specifically Downs' syndrome children) form incredibly strong bonds with their primary caretaker--usually the mother. If the mother dies, the child gives up the will to live, falls ill, and dies not long after. Add to that the fact that conditions like Downs' syndrome are often accompanied by a litany of other health problems. Finally, as Dark points out, I (Virgil) am going to be a liability on the island, not an asset. I'll require a goodly amount of food, but I'll require constant supervision, and I won't be able to physically contribute.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 9:38:24 GMT -5
70 IQ is not far off the "average" American per some thread earlier this week. He can serve them burgers!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 9:43:21 GMT -5
We have to abandon the Mom - she's diabetic and the insulin is going to run out sooner or later. It says she is obese with diabetes which most likely means she has type 2. A little island living combined with low calorie intake is probably just what she needs to be cured of diabetes.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 31, 2014 9:46:30 GMT -5
70 IQ is not far off the "average" American per some thread earlier this week. He can serve them burgers! I would not rely on "some thread" for this information. Here is a better source: www.free-iqtest.net/iq-score-guide.asp
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 9:47:06 GMT -5
in boat
dj chiver paul cereb swamp workpublic billsonboard
left
mmhmm obese and diabetic virgil iq of 70 and mother left behind archie toughest to leave out chose to bring paul instead..... phoenix 2 heart attacks poor health would love the doctor but for how long?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 9:48:26 GMT -5
But I get all my info from this place and TMZ....
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 31, 2014 10:01:08 GMT -5
So... any bright ideas on how we'll reach a consensus?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 10:02:02 GMT -5
Cage Match?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 10:02:44 GMT -5
So... any bright ideas on how we'll reach a consensus? We select a committee to make the final determination.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 10:03:10 GMT -5
So... any bright ideas on how we'll reach a consensus? You were serious about that? On this board?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 31, 2014 10:08:37 GMT -5
gdgyva, whoisjohngalt, and a few others (including myself) have provided go/no-go lists in the style of Reply #68. I'm'a add 1 point for every no-go per passenger per list (one per poster), add up the no-go votes, and propose we save the 7 passengers with the lowest number of votes. So if you want to save somebody's life, get your lists in.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 31, 2014 10:18:59 GMT -5
gdgyva, whoisjohngalt, and a few others (including myself) have provided go/no-go lists in the style of Reply #68. I'm'a add 1 point for every no-go per passenger per list (one per poster), add up the no-go votes, and propose we save the 7 passengers with the lowest number of votes. So if you want to save somebody's life, get your lists in. Do we have consensus on Sir Virgil's method for determine who gets in the boat?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 10:19:18 GMT -5
Is chiver breastfeeding? If not, then the kid should be left behind because the formula is going to run out at some point.
I don't see Mom willing to leave her baby behind so she's out too.
So if we get rid of the people who are going to run out of whatever is keeping them alive we end up with:
dj Virgil cereb Archie swamp workpublic billsonboard phoenix
And out of these people I would swamp. She's a zero population gal so she won't be squirting out any kids.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 10:20:15 GMT -5
gdgyva, whoisjohngalt, and a few others (including myself) have provided go/no-go lists in the style of Reply #68. I'm'a add 1 point for every no-go per passenger per list (one per poster), add up the no-go votes, and propose we save the 7 passengers with the lowest number of votes. So if you want to save somebody's life, get your lists in. who made you king? I thought we were an autonomous collective.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 31, 2014 10:20:20 GMT -5
OK. So thus far we have no-go votes as follows: djpolldancer | VI MH LB DK JG | Mrs. mmhmm | VI MH LB AR DK JG GD BE
| Virgil | VI MH LB AR SL DK JG GD | Mrs. chiver | AR SL DK BE
| Paul | AR DK BE
| cereb |
| Mr. Archie | VI MH SL JG GD | Mrs. Swamp | SL BE
| Mr. workpublic |
| Fr. billisonboard
| SL | Dr. phoenix | LB GD |
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Jan 31, 2014 10:26:46 GMT -5
I'm going old school - women and children first.
So Mrs. Mmhmm, Virgil, Mrs. Chiver, Paul, & Mrs. Swamp all live. BTW, the description did not say that Mrs. Mmhmm was insulin dependent. Lack of fried and processed foods along with the work/exercise she will get on the island could make being shipwrecked her "blessing in disguise". For my final two I pick Dr. DJpolldancer - for his botany skills and Fr. Billisonboard for his farming knowledge.
BTW, if this is indeed an English problem posed to 6th graders - I find that a quite disturbing thought.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 10:27:44 GMT -5
That works out to 3 adult men, 3 adult women and a baby. That could work.
ETA - RE post 78
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 31, 2014 10:30:44 GMT -5
OK. So updated to... djpolldancer | VI MH LB DK JG | Mrs. mmhmm | VI MH LB AR DK JG GD BE
| Virgil | VI MH LB AR SL DK JG GD | Mrs. chiver | AR SL DK BE
| Paul | AR DK BE
| cereb | WW
| Mr. Archie | VI MH SL JG GD WW
| Mrs. Swamp | SL BE
| Mr. workpublic | WW
| Fr. billisonboard
| SL | Dr. phoenix | LB GD WW
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jan 31, 2014 10:34:40 GMT -5
So... any bright ideas on how we'll reach a consensus? Yes, we all do what admin/mods tells us to do
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Jan 31, 2014 10:35:40 GMT -5
gdgyva, whoisjohngalt, and a few others (including myself) have provided go/no-go lists in the style of Reply #68. I'm'a add 1 point for every no-go per passenger per list (one per poster), add up the no-go votes, and propose we save the 7 passengers with the lowest number of votes. So if you want to save somebody's life, get your lists in. Do we have consensus on Sir Virgil's method for determine who gets in the boat? Heck, no! We will never reach consensus - sort of like gridlock in D.C. and they will all die.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Jan 31, 2014 10:45:01 GMT -5
no. i will issue executive orders when i see fit, so that we will survive. I will cut the coconut deficit in half. i will insure that there are tasks for all of the survivors regardless of race or sex. if one doesn't want to participate, they won't be counted but the rest of us will provide for them.
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 10:50:40 GMT -5
Regardless of the provenance of this particular problem, it should be clearly recognizable as a standard of ethics classes. I don't remember getting one like this in school, but I do remember getting one like this in training when I was working for the UK government as a personal advisor.
kslinker.com/save_who.html
Here's a simple example - the only variables are age and gender, and in this case only one must die.
The purpose of all of these exercises, though, is the same: it's to evaluate human life. People tend to be very happy with the woolly (and useless) notion that all human lives are of equal value, and very reluctant to put any recognized human life below the margin of utility.
The example reproduced in this thread is more complex. We have elements to consider including age, education, gender, religious affiliation, politics, personality, relationships with others, and socially useful skillset. The problem admits of several mutually-inconsistent approaches, none of which are necessarily wrong. Two quick examples:
1) We could, for example, make the ethical judgement that we're not leaving children to die on the boat - even children who are going to be permanently dependent on others and relatively less able to contribute to the potential society on the island. By that measure, Virgil and Paul are the first on the boat; second should be caregivers for Virgil and Paul, with Mrs. Mmhmm the obvious candidate to care for her son and Mrs. Chiver the obvious candidate to care for hers. An extension of this sentimental reasoning would press the claim of Dr. Djpolldancer to go with his family. The sixth berth, by extension of the moral principle outlined to begin with, probably goes to cereb, and it's only for the seventh that we need to invoke some new principle. It would be perverse to bring along the oldest person on the boat, doddery old Doc Phoenix, although he shares Spanish American heritage with Paul and Mrs. Chiver and would doubtless enjoy lengthy debates with Dr. Djpolldancer. Mr. Archie, with medical training and a physical fitness nut, probably brings the most utility to the group, and would be a counterbalance to any latent racism directed at cereb - also, Archie is the most appropriate male to bring along with a view to perpetuating the group into the future if we actually view the possibility of a lifetime and beyond on the island, and if we're okay with bringing new people into that suboptimal situation (Mrs. Swamp would vehemently oppose that, which doesn't matter because Mrs. Swamp is going down with the ship in this scenario).
2) We could make the ethical judgement that the people most likely to usefully contribute on the island make the cut. By that metric, kids, people with morbidities, people without obvious survival skills, and the presumably frail elderly are all dubious. Farmer bill meets our criteria, as does Archie; workpublic's construction and mechanical background is a big plus; Dr. polldancer's knowledge of botany might prove invaluable; mmhmm's diabetes makes her a liability, as does Dr. Phoenix' status post-MI. Virgil and Paul add only a social burden under this rubric, at which point we've both counted four in and counted four out of our eleven candidates. The remaining three - Mrs. Chiver, Mrs. Swamp, and cereb - round out the group by elimination.
Both of these selections involve obvious problems. It's possible, and beguiling, to argue that a drawn-out death due to exposure on what turns out to be a barren rock is not preferable to a relatively quick collective submission to the waves - this, like other dodges, illustrates the difficulty we have in judging that people we recognize as people should die.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Jan 31, 2014 11:10:23 GMT -5
yeah but is it appropriate for 6th graders, especially in our white centric, racist school system?
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Lizard King
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Post by Lizard King on Jan 31, 2014 11:17:58 GMT -5
The word you want is "ghettoized" - majority-minority school districts not only abound if you know where to look, they're practically mandated by the VRA.
I don't really think ethics is a good subject for children at that stage of psychosocial development, no. Nuance is not a strength of the pubescent mind.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 31, 2014 11:22:01 GMT -5
My list is the same as yours, Virgil. Archie and Phoenix are, to me, pretty much interchangeable, though.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 31, 2014 11:26:06 GMT -5
yeah but is it appropriate for 6th graders, especially in our white centric, racist school system? I would say that the assignment, as written, is not appropriate for a general population 6th grade class. If you look at the copy posted in the Common Core thread on P&M, it is obviously not a published lesson. If, and there is no evidence that it was, assigned to sixth graders I think a teacher used a lesson designed for a older age group. The language used is a clear giveaway to me.
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