Who Should Survive?

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 30, 2014 23:41:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Virgil Showlion -  is Mr Archie black?  You only said he was a black power advocate.  I am a women power advocate but I am not a woman. 

"Woman power" isn't a synonym for "female supremacy" (or misandry, which would be the more accepted term). I realize there's a fine line between the two, but I don't consider "girl power" or "woman power" to be bigotry.

"Black power" is synonymous with "black supremacy". It's bigotry, just the same as white supremacy.

There are, believe it or not, black white supremacists and (no doubt) white black supremacists, but if it makes a difference to your decision, let's say that Archie is a black black supremacist.

[whoisjohngalt]

Interesting.  You are concentrating on the wrong thing.

ETA:  that was in response to Tennese guy

[Sum Dum Gai]

I agree that the way the problem was stated we aren't part of the equation. However I don't see the young mother letting us leave her infant behind while bringing her. After you get rid of the diabetic lady, her mentally impaired son, and her husband, the most obvious dead weight left is the baby. It'll be years before the kid can do anything remotely useful.

Minor gripe with the problem; in the real world an infant doesn't take up room on the lifeboat. The mother and infant combined probably weigh less than any of the guys. They should be counted as a single person.

The way the problem is stated though we have to pick one more person to leave behind. The greater good answer is leave the infant. He couldn't keep himself alive if he was stranded in the middle of a grocery store, much less help anyone else.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 30, 2014 23:49:59 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 30, 2014 23:41:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Virgil Showlion -in  is Mr Archie black?  You only said he was a black power advocate.  I am a women power advocate but I am not a woman. 

"Woman power" isn't a synonym for "female supremacy" (or misandry, which would be the more accepted term). I realize there's a fine line between the two, but I don't consider "girl power" or "woman power" to be bigotry.

"Black power" is synonymous with "black supremacy". It's bigotry, just the same as white supremacy.

There are, believe it or not, black white supremacists and (no doubt) white black supremacists, but if it makes a difference to your decision, let's say that Archie is a black black supremacist.

I don't see an advocate as being the same as a supremacist.  A child advocate is not a child supremacist.  You have now moved Mr. Archie's goal posts by calling him a supremacist.  Be careful.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 30, 2014 23:57:18 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Interesting.  You are concentrating on the wrong thing.

ETA:  that was in response to Tennese guy

Oh I know the med student was arrogant but the person being a black power advocate seemed to be your tipping point in not saving him and saving everyone else including the anti-black passenger.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 30, 2014 23:59:20 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I agree that the way the problem was stated we aren't part of the equation. However I don't see the young mother letting us leave her infant behind while bringing her. After you get rid of the diabetic lady, her mentally impaired son, and her husband, the most obvious dead weight left is the baby. It'll be years before the kid can do anything remotely useful.

Minor gripe with the problem; in the real world an infant doesn't take up room on the lifeboat. The mother and infant combined probably weigh less than any of the guys. They should be counted as a single person.

The way the problem is stated though we have to pick one more person to leave behind. The greater good answer is leave the infant. He couldn't keep himself alive if he was stranded in the middle of a grocery store, much less help anyone else.

All true. But something about throwing the baby under the bus... boat... whatever.

In a side-by-side comparison of the 66-year-old doctor and the baby, at some point we have to say: the old guy had a good run. The kid is three months old. His mom is going to flip out if she loses him.

And really, how much use is a doctor going to be on a deserted island? No medical tools. No drugs. No antibiotics. Or if they have antibiotics, anybody can stick themselves with a needle. Setting broken bones might be an issue to worry about, but aside from that, what is a doctor really going to do out in the middle of nowhere?

And a baby could be a morale booster, and something to bring the community together. They see hope for the future in him. And kids have a kind of energy and optimism about them. With the old guy, you'd just be waiting for him to die.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 31, 2014 0:03:21 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 30, 2014 23:49:59 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

"Woman power" isn't a synonym for "female supremacy" (or misandry, which would be the more accepted term). I realize there's a fine line between the two, but I don't consider "girl power" or "woman power" to be bigotry.

"Black power" is synonymous with "black supremacy". It's bigotry, just the same as white supremacy.

There are, believe it or not, black white supremacists and (no doubt) white black supremacists, but if it makes a difference to your decision, let's say that Archie is a black black supremacist.

I don't see an advocate as being the same as a supremacist.  A child advocate is not a child supremacist.  You have now moved Mr. Archie's goal posts by calling him a supremacist.  Be careful.

What would you call a "black power advocate" then?

I always held that "black power" was the analog to "white power": a sense of black nationalism, or black supremacy. And regardless, let's suppose Archie is black.

[Tennesseer]

Virgil-one question:  why was it necessary to introduce race, ethnicity and sexual orientation into your game?  It could have been just as interesting without that information.  Watch the movie Back From Eternity some time.

[billisonboard]

Jan 31, 2014 0:18:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Virgil-one question:  why was it necessary to introduce race, ethnicity and sexual orientation into your game?  It could have been just as interesting without that information.  Watch the movie Back From Eternity some time.

Great question.

[Sum Dum Gai]

There's a good case to be made for leaving the old guy with heart problems behind instead of the baby. However, if we're bringing the baby for morale boosting and optimism, why the mentally impaired 10 year old? Down Syndrome kids are usually very upbeat. We don't know from the problem why the 10 year old has a low IQ, granted, but he could serve as the group mascot just as much as the baby, which also allows us to keep the amateur botanist, which might come in handy. The obese diabetic mother is still a problem though.

[Sum Dum Gai]

If you keep the old doc with a bad ticker he might live long enough to train the med student so you still have a doc after he dies. Point taken about the lack of equipment and meds, but having somebody that can hopefully keep routine stuff from getting out of hand could be handy. Think appendecitus, cysts, stitching cuts, stuff like that. Would really suck to have the farmer or carpenter die of something the doc could have treated a few weeks after making it to the island.

[Tennesseer]

One other question Virgil Showlion - if Mr. Archie is now a black supremacist, then is Mr. Workpublic, a man with anti-black views, now a white supremacist or simply misinformed and a well meaning man? 

Interesting the way you posed their profiles though regarding race issues.

[billisonboard]

Jan 31, 2014 0:40:03 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

One other question Virgil Showlion - if Mr. Archie is now a black supremacist, then is Mr. Workpublic, a man with anti-black views, now a white supremacist or simply misinformed and a well meaning man? 

Interesting the way you posed their profiles though regarding race issues.

Is the exact wording that important?

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Jan 31, 2014 0:18:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Virgil-one question:  why was it necessary to introduce race, ethnicity and sexual orientation into your game?  It could have been just as interesting without that information.  Watch the movie Back From Eternity some time.

I think it shows that Virgil is "testing all of you (us) in this little scenario.

Your (our) answers will reveal your views on many cultural/racial and other discriminatory issues - based on your answers .

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 31, 2014 0:18:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Virgil-one question:  why was it necessary to introduce race, ethnicity and sexual orientation into your game?  It could have been just as interesting without that information.  Watch the movie Back From Eternity some time.

The descriptions of the 11 passengers (with the exception of their names) are copied verbatim from the original problem sheet. You can see it over on the "Common Core Funnies" thread.

If you have an issue with the descriptions, take it up with the US education system. This is what's actually being taught to grade 6 students in English class.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 31, 2014 0:44:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jan 31, 2014 0:40:03 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

One other question Virgil Showlion - if Mr. Archie is now a black supremacist, then is Mr. Workpublic, a man with anti-black views, now a white supremacist or simply misinformed and a well meaning man? 

Interesting the way you posed their profiles though regarding race issues.

Is the exact wording that important?

And what are you smiling about?

You know darn well that it wasn't me who chose the wording and came up with the profiles. Tell people that. Don't just make sarcastic quips while the discussion keeps marching on under faulty assumptions.

[billisonboard]

Jan 31, 2014 1:04:34 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 31, 2014 0:18:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Virgil-one question:  why was it necessary to introduce race, ethnicity and sexual orientation into your game?  It could have been just as interesting without that information.  Watch the movie Back From Eternity some time.

The descriptions of the 11 passengers (with the exception of their names) are copied verbatim from the original problem sheet. You can see it over on the "Common Core Funnies" thread.

If you have an issue with the descriptions, take it up with the US education system. This is what's actually being taught to grade 6 students in English class.

I wonder if some of those sixth graders ask the same question about the significance of those factors?

[billisonboard]

Jan 31, 2014 1:10:19 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

And what are you smiling about? ...

Maybe you should look back at what you set up in the OP as the topic of this thread.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 31, 2014 1:19:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jan 31, 2014 1:10:19 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

And what are you smiling about? ...

Maybe you should look back at what you set up in the OP as the topic of this thread.

Yeah, wow.

We're learning all kinds of super useful things, aren't we? Like whether "black power advocate" is the same as "black supremacist", or whether a mentally retarded boy makes for a better mascot than a baby.

The kind of real-world skills that will help American kids lead the pack in years to come.

[billisonboard]

Jan 31, 2014 1:27:51 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 31, 2014 1:19:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Maybe you should look back at what you set up in the OP as the topic of this thread.

Yeah, wow.

We're learning all kinds of super useful things, aren't we? Like whether "black power advocate" is the same as "black supremacist", or whether a mentally retarded boy makes for a better mascot than a baby.

The kind of real-world skills that will help American kids lead the pack in years to come.

Process, not product.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 31, 2014 1:04:34 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 31, 2014 0:18:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Virgil-one question:  why was it necessary to introduce race, ethnicity and sexual orientation into your game?  It could have been just as interesting without that information.  Watch the movie Back From Eternity some time.

The descriptions of the 11 passengers (with the exception of their names) are copied verbatim from the original problem sheet. You can see it over on the "Common Core Funnies" thread.

If you have an issue with the descriptions, take it up with the US education system. This is what's actually being taught to grade 6 students in English class.

Virgil-can you provide the background as to when and where this test was administered.  I cannot find any information on the Internet about when and where the test was given.  And the only snapshot/picture of the test on the Internet is the same picture you posted on the 'Common Core Funnies' thread.

You have stated that is what is actually being taught to grade 6 students in English class so you must have some insight to the test's actual origins and its history.

Thanks!

[Shooby]

Since I am not on the list, I presume you all left me there to drown. So heck with all of you!

[whoisjohngalt]

Jan 31, 2014 0:06:49 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 30, 2014 23:57:18 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Interesting.  You are concentrating on the wrong thing.

ETA:  that was in response to Tennese guy

Oh I know the med student was arrogant but the person being a black power advocate seemed to be your tipping point in not saving him and saving everyone else including the anti-black passenger.

My "tipping" point was the fact that it didn't seem that he had any skills and a big mouth. 

ETA: to *me* there is a big difference between having "views" and being an advocate for something.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 31, 2014 7:34:29 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 31, 2014 1:04:34 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The descriptions of the 11 passengers (with the exception of their names) are copied verbatim from the original problem sheet. You can see it over on the "Common Core Funnies" thread.

If you have an issue with the descriptions, take it up with the US education system. This is what's actually being taught to grade 6 students in English class.

Virgil-can you provide the background as to when and where this test was administered.  I cannot find any information on the Internet about when and where the test was given.  And the only snapshot/picture of the test on the Internet is the same picture you posted on the 'Common Core Funnies' thread.

You have stated that is what is actually being taught to grade 6 students in English class so you must have some insight to the test's actual origins and its history.

Thanks!

As I indicated in the "Common Core Funnies" thread, all of the images were obtained from a Twitter feed that asked teachers and parents to submit their students' Common Core homework. The tweet that included this image indicated it was for a grade 6 English test.

I'm not able to recall the exact address. I found it after a bit of link surfing, starting with one of the links Paul provided in the "Stand with Wendy" thread.

[billisonboard]

Jan 31, 2014 7:34:29 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 31, 2014 1:04:34 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The descriptions of the 11 passengers (with the exception of their names) are copied verbatim from the original problem sheet. You can see it over on the "Common Core Funnies" thread.

If you have an issue with the descriptions, take it up with the US education system. This is what's actually being taught to grade 6 students in English class.

Virgil-can you provide the background as to when and where this test was administered.  I cannot find any information on the Internet about when and where the test was given.  And the only snapshot/picture of the test on the Internet is the same picture you posted on the 'Common Core Funnies' thread.

You have stated that is what is actually being taught to grade 6 students in English class so you must have some insight to the test's actual origins and its history.

Thanks!

Jan 30, 2014 19:44:59 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 30, 2014 18:03:01 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sir Virgil,
Might you be able to provide evidence that 7 of the 8 items shown in the OP are in any way connected to Common Core curriculum?

One clearly is.
The "Who Should Survive" appears to be a teacher generated paper.
"Hundred chart addition" predates Common Core.
The others might or might not be connected to Common Core.

All of the photos were posted by teachers or parents on a "show us your students' common core homework" Twitter feed. I trust teachers to recognize curriculum changes from pre-CC to post-CC. (From the Common Core thread on Current News)

I attempted to get some information on this and this is the response I got.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 31, 2014 9:01:26 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Jan 31, 2014 0:06:49 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Oh I know the med student was arrogant but the person being a black power advocate seemed to be your tipping point in not saving him and saving everyone else including the anti-black passenger.

My "tipping" point was the fact that it didn't seem that he had any skills and a big mouth. 

ETA: to *me* there is a big difference between having "views" and being an advocate for something.

Last year of medical school is no skills.  That is more medical skills than you or I have.

What will the survivors do when the only other survivor with any medical skills soon dies off after already having two heart attacks and is in his late '60s.

Then we agree there is a big difference between someone who is an advocate for black empowerment and someone with anti-black views.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 31, 2014 9:05:08 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 31, 2014 7:34:29 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Virgil-can you provide the background as to when and where this test was administered.  I cannot find any information on the Internet about when and where the test was given.  And the only snapshot/picture of the test on the Internet is the same picture you posted on the 'Common Core Funnies' thread.

You have stated that is what is actually being taught to grade 6 students in English class so you must have some insight to the test's actual origins and its history.

Thanks!

As I indicated in the "Common Core Funnies" thread, all of the images were obtained from a Twitter feed that asked teachers and parents to submit their students' Common Core homework. The tweet that included this image indicated it was for a grade 6 English test.

I'm not able to recall the exact address. I found it after a bit of link surfing, starting with one of the links Paul provided in the "Stand with Wendy" thread.

So right now you cannot confirm whether or not the game/student problem was given to students to complete.

[Deleted]

Does Paul even count when figuring out the seven for the boat? His mother is going to be holding him. He won't take up a spot. Isn't that like kids under 2 ride free on the airplane?

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 31, 2014 9:16:59 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 31, 2014 9:05:08 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

As I indicated in the "Common Core Funnies" thread, all of the images were obtained from a Twitter feed that asked teachers and parents to submit their students' Common Core homework. The tweet that included this image indicated it was for a grade 6 English test.

I'm not able to recall the exact address. I found it after a bit of link surfing, starting with one of the links Paul provided in the "Stand with Wendy" thread.

So right now you cannot confirm whether or not the game/student problem was given to students to complete.

You're right. We can't be too careful, what with the plague of fake assignments being drawn up and tweeted.

I'll petition the US House of Representatives to convene a select committee to investigate, and get back to you.

Does Paul even count when figuring out the seven for the boat? His mother is going to be holding him. He won't take up a spot. Isn't that like kids under 2 ride free on the airplane?

Others have mentioned this same grievance.

The spirit of the problem statement is that we pick 7 individuals, regardless of how much space each would theoretically take up in a lifeboat.

There are also the obvious issues of who "we" are, and how it is that "we" have unilateral authority to determine who stays and who goes. For the exercise to work, we have to boil it down to fundamentals: 11 people, 7 can survive on an island, remaining 4 die, "we" are not a factor in the problem, "we" have unilateral power to select the 7 survivors.

[whoisjohngalt]

Tenneser - you and I have never agreed on anything and this is no exception.  You can assign anything you want to my posts, but yes, I would pick a guy with BS in mechanics and outdoor skills over med school student who is "advocate" for ANYTHING every.day.of.the.week.