AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 30, 2013 20:06:30 GMT -5
I'm all about accuracy, and I have no doubt that Rush wants to make his audience sound as big as possible to advertisers. However, the 1.4 million listeners at "any one time" is an interesting way to attempt to contradict "20 million people each week" the way TV does it is "unique viewers". that is the way radio should do it, too. if they did it that way, there would be WAY LESS than 20M unique listeners. of course, they will never do that. but that's ok. just keep in mind that 20M in Radio land is like...200M in TV land. That's a very old assumption. Radio has grown by leaps and bounds as television has been on the wane. Ever since Rush personally revived the AM band in 1989, and inspired hosts from Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, and others-- AM radio has grown a massive audience. And as a marketer, I will tell you this: TV audiences are shit, liberal talk radio has no audience- none. Tested it- due to a client's politics. He was wrong- but at least it didn't cost much. We shifted to the conservative shows, and almost put him out of business. The first ad that ran on Rush crashed his website. He went from 9 employees to 30 in two months- but he pissed a lot of customers off in the process-- growing pains. I don't think he'll have to advertise again- ever. Three spots each week in a single market.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 30, 2013 20:12:18 GMT -5
the way TV does it is "unique viewers". that is the way radio should do it, too. if they did it that way, there would be WAY LESS than 20M unique listeners. of course, they will never do that. but that's ok. just keep in mind that 20M in Radio land is like...200M in TV land. That's a very old assumption. no, it is a current assumption. see the OP.Radio has grown by leaps and bounds as television has been on the wane. Ever since Rush personally revived the AM band in 1989, and inspired hosts from Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, and others-- AM radio has grown a massive audience. And as a marketer, I will tell you this: TV audiences are shit, that must be why TV advertizements cost 20x what radio spots cost. because they get less results. uh huh.liberal talk radio has no audience- none. liberal talk radio has about a 5% talk radio market share. Tested it- due to a client's politics. He was wrong- but at least it didn't cost much. We shifted to the conservative shows, and almost put him out of business. The first ad that ran on Rush crashed his website. He went from 9 employees to 30 in two months- but he pissed a lot of customers off in the process-- growing pains. I don't think he'll have to advertise again- ever. Three spots each week in a single market. i am not following you. what part did you play in the transaction? you sound like you run an advertizing firm.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 30, 2013 20:15:50 GMT -5
The claim is that the show reaches 20 million people per week- and that, as I've pointed out, is an easily believable figure. sure it is. because people listen to the show regularly, they count as multiple people. that is not the same as unique listeners, tho.I can't get into precise detail- but as I think you know- I still do a good bit of marketing consulting, and copy-writing. We've run numerous test ads on Rush's show that suggest that in a single spot we hit between 3.5 and 4.5 million listeners. If you consider these are people listening to the ad, you can actually pad the numbers a bit . i can go along with that. i think the data supports 2-4M unique listeners.We decided to run the test in the wake of "slut week" - a week that I suspected listenership exploded due to the publicity. More recent tests suggest between 1.8 and 2.1 million listeners heard our ads. "our"? don't tell me....REALLY? I seriously don't understand the question? Rush's audience is far, far larger than 2 - 4 million unique listeners. I'm perfectly willing to accept that it's not the full 20 million- but it can't be as low as 4 million or else Cumulus / Clear Channel / Premier Radio Networks are simply suicidal. I don't think they could sustain the kind of compensation offered to Rush if they weren't making money-- do you? As I've said- the best evidence of Rush's audience size is the size of his paycheck- and the fact that he keeps getting it, over, and over, and over. He makes money that's unheard of in radio-- and the people that DO have the numbers-- Arbitron notwithstanding-- keep cutting the checks.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 30, 2013 20:19:54 GMT -5
That's a very old assumption. no, it is a current assumption. see the OP.Radio has grown by leaps and bounds as television has been on the wane. Ever since Rush personally revived the AM band in 1989, and inspired hosts from Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, and others-- AM radio has grown a massive audience. And as a marketer, I will tell you this: TV audiences are shit, that must be why TV advertizements cost 20x what radio spots cost. because they get less results. uh huh.liberal talk radio has no audience- none. liberal talk radio has about a 5% talk radio market share. Tested it- due to a client's politics. He was wrong- but at least it didn't cost much. We shifted to the conservative shows, and almost put him out of business. The first ad that ran on Rush crashed his website. He went from 9 employees to 30 in two months- but he pissed a lot of customers off in the process-- growing pains. I don't think he'll have to advertise again- ever. Three spots each week in a single market. i am not following you. what part did you play in the transaction? you sound like you run an advertizing firm. I do marketing consulting. Not an ad agency per se-- but I make suggestions and write copy. In this instance, the ad ran (and is running regularly) and when you hear it- you're hearing my writing. We have tweaked it a bit- it's for a firm that markets an investment newsletter- a wannabe Stansbury And Associates. I listened to their story, how they got started, and I suggested a way to tell that story, and sell their product. Ad runs all the time all over the place now.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Nov 30, 2013 23:14:07 GMT -5
That's a very old assumption. no, it is a current assumption. see the OP.Radio has grown by leaps and bounds as television has been on the wane. Ever since Rush personally revived the AM band in 1989, and inspired hosts from Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, and others-- AM radio has grown a massive audience. And as a marketer, I will tell you this: TV audiences are shit, that must be why TV advertizements cost 20x what radio spots cost. because they get less results. uh huh.liberal talk radio has no audience- none. liberal talk radio has about a 5% talk radio market share. Tested it- due to a client's politics. He was wrong- but at least it didn't cost much. We shifted to the conservative shows, and almost put him out of business. The first ad that ran on Rush crashed his website. He went from 9 employees to 30 in two months- but he pissed a lot of customers off in the process-- growing pains. I don't think he'll have to advertise again- ever. Three spots each week in a single market. i am not following you. what part did you play in the transaction? you sound like you run an advertizing firm. The kind of advertising I do gets far better results than Madison Avenue TV spots- IF the goal is direct response. My aim is "hear, or read my copy- buy the product". TV ads cost more because it's the big boys competing for abstractions like "brand awareness". The big ad agencies don't even know what "response rate" and "conversion rate" are, let alone the difference between the two, or why they're important. They are larger firms that have the luxury of assuming you have a few big brand choices, and their ads are designed to help you choose a brand, not buy a product. My kind of advertising gets into the head of a person with a problem to solve, and makes an offer that hopefully elicits a response and makes a sale. When our ad runs, we don't commission Gallup to poll Coke or Pepsi and then guess at whether or not our recent ad campaign had anything to do with the poll results. Our ad runs, and we look at sales during the ad, that business day, and in the following 24 hours. So, actually, in a very real sense- TV ads do not get results. I suppose the infomercial is the exception. With respect to liberal talk radio's "market share"-- that may be true, but I define an audience as having the need for, and means to purchase the product in question. I market mostly B to B services, and the demographics are far superior (to say nothing of significantly more market share) in conservative talk radio. By the way- have you checked into the data for rushlimbaugh.com ? I can't find anything right now- but I'm not looking very hard. I have always been curious about the number of subscribers to Rush 24/7? My listening is at least 50% online- if it's not iheartradio.com app, then it's the rush 24/7 app.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 0:18:07 GMT -5
i am not following you. what part did you play in the transaction? you sound like you run an advertizing firm. I do marketing consulting. Not an ad agency per se-- but I make suggestions and write copy. In this instance, the ad ran (and is running regularly) and when you hear it- you're hearing my writing. We have tweaked it a bit- it's for a firm that markets an investment newsletter- a wannabe Stansbury And Associates. I listened to their story, how they got started, and I suggested a way to tell that story, and sell their product. Ad runs all the time all over the place now. You're well-known for your story-telling. A regular brother Grimm. But without the modesty.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 1, 2013 1:03:06 GMT -5
i am not following you. what part did you play in the transaction? you sound like you run an advertizing firm. I do marketing consulting. Not an ad agency per se-- but I make suggestions and write copy. In this instance, the ad ran (and is running regularly) and when you hear it- you're hearing my writing. We have tweaked it a bit- it's for a firm that markets an investment newsletter- a wannabe Stansbury And Associates. I listened to their story, how they got started, and I suggested a way to tell that story, and sell their product. Ad runs all the time all over the place now. well done. our marketing sucks. i am sure i could use your help. but we don't sell consumer products.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 1, 2013 1:09:16 GMT -5
"our"? don't tell me....REALLY? I seriously don't understand the question? Rush's audience is far, far larger than 2 - 4 million unique listeners. i would ask you to prove that, but you can't. i know because i have researched it.I'm perfectly willing to accept that it's not the full 20 million- but it can't be as low as 4 million or else Cumulus / Clear Channel / Premier Radio Networks are simply suicidal. I don't think they could sustain the kind of compensation offered to Rush if they weren't making money-- do you? are you claiming that he could not sustain his $50M/year income with 2-4M unique listeners? why not? if his unique listeners ONLY purchased an average of $100 worth of advertized products in a year, that is $300M. that is a lot more than $50M. that is less than (1) bag of cheetos a week, if he were selling cheetos. is that really expecting too much?As I've said- the best evidence of Rush's audience size is the size of his paycheck- he makes about the same as an NFL quarterback. what is the size of their audience? and the fact that he keeps getting it, over, and over, and over. He makes money that's unheard of in radio-- and the people that DO have the numbers-- Arbitron notwithstanding-- keep cutting the checks. i get that. you seem to think that it takes 20M to cover that check. i FERVENTLY disagree.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 1, 2013 1:10:33 GMT -5
i am not following you. what part did you play in the transaction? you sound like you run an advertizing firm. The kind of advertising I do gets far better results than Madison Avenue TV spots- IF the goal is direct response. My aim is "hear, or read my copy- buy the product". TV ads cost more because it's the big boys competing for abstractions like "brand awareness". The big ad agencies don't even know what "response rate" and "conversion rate" are, let alone the difference between the two, or why they're important. yeah, they are a bunch of dumbasses, i am sure. glad you are so much smarter.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 1, 2013 1:13:17 GMT -5
i am not following you. what part did you play in the transaction? you sound like you run an advertizing firm. By the way- have you checked into the data for rushlimbaugh.com ? yes, i have. the number is less than 2M unique users, but i can't remember if the number was 1.4M or 1.9M.I can't find anything right now- but I'm not looking very hard. I have always been curious about the number of subscribers to Rush 24/7? My listening is at least 50% online- if it's not iheartradio.com app, then it's the rush 24/7 app. that sounds like a good mix for audience.
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grits
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Post by grits on Dec 1, 2013 1:30:53 GMT -5
I heard that Howard Stern's isn't as big as he says.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 1, 2013 8:23:00 GMT -5
The kind of advertising I do gets far better results than Madison Avenue TV spots- IF the goal is direct response. My aim is "hear, or read my copy- buy the product". TV ads cost more because it's the big boys competing for abstractions like "brand awareness". The big ad agencies don't even know what "response rate" and "conversion rate" are, let alone the difference between the two, or why they're important. yeah, they are a bunch of dumbasses, i am sure. glad you are so much smarter. I didn't say smarter- I said I had a different objective. If the objective was brand awareness or increasing marketshare then I'm sure I wouldn't be the guy.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 1, 2013 8:24:32 GMT -5
I seriously don't understand the question? Rush's audience is far, far larger than 2 - 4 million unique listeners. i would ask you to prove that, but you can't. i know because i have researched it.I'm perfectly willing to accept that it's not the full 20 million- but it can't be as low as 4 million or else Cumulus / Clear Channel / Premier Radio Networks are simply suicidal. I don't think they could sustain the kind of compensation offered to Rush if they weren't making money-- do you? are you claiming that he could not sustain his $50M/year income with 2-4M unique listeners? why not? if his unique listeners ONLY purchased an average of $100 worth of advertized products in a year, that is $300M. that is a lot more than $50M. that is less than (1) bag of cheetos a week, if he were selling cheetos. is that really expecting too much?As I've said- the best evidence of Rush's audience size is the size of his paycheck- he makes about the same as an NFL quarterback. what is the size of their audience? and the fact that he keeps getting it, over, and over, and over. He makes money that's unheard of in radio-- and the people that DO have the numbers-- Arbitron notwithstanding-- keep cutting the checks. i get that. you seem to think that it takes 20M to cover that check. i FERVENTLY disagree. I don't know how much it takes to cover that check, but I know this- IF TV was so much better, and Rachael Madcow had roughly the same size audience as Rush (which was suggested) then why doesn't she make even a fraction of what Rush makes?
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 1, 2013 11:30:34 GMT -5
i get that. you seem to think that it takes 20M to cover that check. i FERVENTLY disagree. I don't know how much it takes to cover that check, but I know this- IF TV was so much better, and Rachael Madcow had roughly the same size audience as Rush (which was suggested) then why doesn't she make even a fraction of what Rush makes? demographics? experience? ownership of brand? success of the media/ownership/corporation in question? other? when i say "other" consider this question: why does the president of Chase Bank, which is in really bad shape, imo, makes 10x as much as the president of Costco, which is in good shape? "other" = historical practices, "demands", "branding", corporate culture, etc. a person's worth to an enterprise is not necessarily a function of the enterprise's success. to summarize: the relationship between audience and pay that you presume doesn't exist.
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 1, 2013 17:44:27 GMT -5
I love the idea that Rush has brought back AM radio- and that TV is on the wane while radio is growing. I see a captive audience- who knows- maybe their pick-up trucks only have AM. But, pretty sure Rush is on FM more than AM, but I could be wrong. He couldn't make it on TV- that's old news. What he does have is a large audience that cannot watch TV while they drive- hell I will listen to his show when travelling just because it makes the time go by a lot faster than music- and when it comes to talk radio there are few choices around here- mainly Religion, sports, or right wing politics- two of which tend to overlap. Thank God for NPR and its few interesting shows, and of course the other occasional show about computers, home improvement, etc. The younger folks are busy with podcasts, satellite radio, etc. and I doubt Rush is in the rotation. Too bad networks didn't learn the truth about 'shit' TV audiences- they could have just not bothered with Lost or the Simpsons and just broadcast the fatass in his throne droning on about the same old shit every night- think of the profits they lost spending millions using visual media to tell an interesting story. What a waste.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 2, 2013 21:00:27 GMT -5
I've already agreed with you on audience size not meaning as much as the demographics- which you point out, and I agree with. But there is most certainly a relationship between a show's commercial viability and money-- or else every liberal show wouldn't flop, every liberal network wouldn't fail, and liberals wouldn't have to result to force to silence conservatives, and force their views onto the airwaves.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 2, 2013 21:02:55 GMT -5
I love the idea that Rush has brought back AM radio- and that TV is on the wane while radio is growing. I see a captive audience- who knows- maybe their pick-up trucks only have AM. But, pretty sure Rush is on FM more than AM, but I could be wrong. He couldn't make it on TV- that's old news. What he does have is a large audience that cannot watch TV while they drive- hell I will listen to his show when travelling just because it makes the time go by a lot faster than music- and when it comes to talk radio there are few choices around here- mainly Religion, sports, or right wing politics- two of which tend to overlap. Thank God for NPR and its few interesting shows, and of course the other occasional show about computers, home improvement, etc. The younger folks are busy with podcasts, satellite radio, etc. and I doubt Rush is in the rotation. Too bad networks didn't learn the truth about 'shit' TV audiences- they could have just not bothered with Lost or the Simpsons and just broadcast the fatass in his throne droning on about the same old shit every night- think of the profits they lost spending millions using visual media to tell an interesting story. What a waste. I chose Illinois and Florida- mostly AM stations. I regularly listen to WMMB-- in Brevard County. In IL it was WLS. In Delray, it's WJNO. All AM. www.rushlimbaugh.com/stations - check where you live.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 2, 2013 21:13:34 GMT -5
Another means of guessing at audience size, or at least influence, is conservative book sales. Rush's current book, "Rush Revere and the Brave Pilgrims" is selling like crazy. The debut bested the #2 book by John Grisham by more than double. That's not a direct link, but seriously- where else might people hear about a book by Rush? Debut sales were 180,000-- reverse engineer the numbers there, consider double or tripple the typical response due to Rush's notorious powers of persuasion if you must-- and there you go.
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 2, 2013 22:06:27 GMT -5
Another means of guessing at audience size, or at least influence, is conservative book sales. Rush's current book, "Rush Revere and the Brave Pilgrims" is selling like crazy. The debut bested the #2 book by John Grisham by more than double. That's not a direct link, but seriously- where else might people hear about a book by Rush? Debut sales were 180,000-- reverse engineer the numbers there, consider double or tripple the typical response due to Rush's notorious powers of persuasion if you must-- and there you go. Grisham wrote a book for adults. Rush wrote a book for kids ages 8-12. Two different audiences and types of literature. New York Times Best Seller List December 2, 2013
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 2, 2013 22:20:26 GMT -5
Now Rush has taken on Pope Francis. Rush Limbaugh: Pope is preaching 'pure Marxism'By Daniel Burke, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor CNN) – Pope Francis: Successor to St. Peter ... the people's pontiff ... Marxist? That's what conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh suggests, calling the Pope's latest document "pure Marxism." Limbaugh blasted the pontiff on Wednesday, a day after Francis released "Evangelii Gaudium" (The Joy of the Gospel), a 50,000-word statement that calls for church reform and castigates elements of modern capitalism. Rush Limbaugh: Pope is preaching 'pure Marxism'
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 2, 2013 22:42:03 GMT -5
I'm sure the Pope is crying in his sacramental wine.
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Post by Jaguar on Dec 2, 2013 22:44:33 GMT -5
Well that will be 1 Billion Catholics not listening to Rush Limbaugh.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 23:13:11 GMT -5
Another means of guessing at audience size, or at least influence, is conservative book sales. Rush's current book, "Rush Revere and the Brave Pilgrims" is selling like crazy. The debut bested the #2 book by John Grisham by more than double. That's not a direct link, but seriously- where else might people hear about a book by Rush? Debut sales were 180,000-- reverse engineer the numbers there, consider double or tripple the typical response due to Rush's notorious powers of persuasion if you must-- and there you go. Grisham wrote a book for adults. Rush wrote a book for kids ages 8-12. Two different audiences and types of literature. New York Times Best Seller List December 2, 2013 As one old acquaintance used to say: "A cabbage is NOT a stapler".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 23:15:27 GMT -5
In a break from other former pontiffs, we seem to have a new guy in the Vatican that CAN see the forest for the trees.
This one may have more concern for the broke than for the brokers.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2013 0:57:34 GMT -5
I've already agreed with you on audience size not meaning as much as the demographics- which you point out, and I agree with. But there is most certainly a relationship between a show's commercial viability and money-- i mentioned the commercial viability angle.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 9:52:36 GMT -5
Is there a particular point to this thread, or just looking for something to talk about. ?? Seems to be liberals trash talking conservative media. I've seen this happen before.
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 3, 2013 10:21:30 GMT -5
Is there a particular point to this thread, or just looking for something to talk about. ?? Seems to be liberals trash talking conservative media. I've seen this happen before. And Rush's biggest fan on this board doesn't trash talk 'liberal' radio and TV talk shows? Just one of many started by the most prolific P&M poster: CNN, MSNBC LOSE HALF THEIR AUDIENCE IN ONE YEAR
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 11:56:09 GMT -5
Seems to be liberals trash talking conservative media. I've seen this happen before. And Rush's biggest fan on this board doesn't trash talk 'liberal' radio and TV talk shows? Just one of many started by the most prolific P&M poster: CNN, MSNBC LOSE HALF THEIR AUDIENCE IN ONE YEAR Seems to be that conservatives trash talk liberal media. I've seen this happen before.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2013 12:29:59 GMT -5
Is there a particular point to this thread, or just looking for something to talk about. ?? Seems to be liberals trash talking conservative media. I've seen this happen before. given the 24/7 trash talk going the other way about not liberal media but lib-er-uls, you can hardly blame them (us).
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 3, 2013 12:35:17 GMT -5
In a break from other former pontiffs, we seem to have a new guy in the Vatican that CAN see the forest for the trees. This one may have more concern for the broke than for the brokers. I've never faulted naive communists for their concern, just for the results. Why is it that in a capitalist economy, it's easier for a 'poor' person to get a cell phone or a flat screen tv than it is for the rich to even FIND toilet paper in a communist economy? And Rush is hardly alone in the critique of Marxism / statism and ANYONE who espouses it.
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