Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 18, 2013 13:48:33 GMT -5
They have Bloomberg spooked, and given the interest he represents, that's definitely a good thing. ZH points out the latest BusinessWeek cover: The subtitle reads "Ted Cruz and his band of deadenders took the US through the looking glass. Now crazy is the new normal." 'Crazy', as Mr. Bloomberg refers to it, is the desire to end the 85 billion a month Fed monetization of US debt. More than a trillion dollars a year, and continuing to grow at an alarming rate, even as foreign creditors sell off their US debt and buy hard US assets (for example, China acquired JPM's gold vault and former headquarters just the other day). The details on Fed asset purchases and open market operations gets rather complicated, but the bottom line is this. Each dollar of debt created is an asset producing a fair amount of interest for a gentlemen just like Mr. Bloomberg. Your debt is a pump of billions--hundreds of billions--of dollars out of your (the taxpayer's) pocket, straight into Mr. Bloomberg's coffers in the form of interest, or in the form of inflating the prices of assets that he owns. Why is Mr. Bloomberg lampooning Mr. Cruz and the Tea Party? Because Mr. Bloomberg and a great many men just like him don't want their incredible wealth pump to shut down. Debt--debt that you owe them--is their business now. Anyone or anything that threatens that enterprise is going to be shot down with a vindictiveness you've scarcely ever seen. He did get one thing right. "Crazy is the new normal." Crazy has been the "new normal" for quite a while now, Mr. Bloomberg. I can only appeal to the politically-minded here: Don't buy into the "Tea Party is Crazy" propaganda. They're reckless, yes. They're certainly not perfect. But they obviously care about your country, see what's happening to it, and magazine covers like the above are the proof that they make Bloomberg and Debt Inc. extremely uncomfortable.
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Oct 18, 2013 13:55:00 GMT -5
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Oct 18, 2013 13:57:11 GMT -5
they'll send in the jackels if the TP gets too close to changing anything. don't worry about the blooms, rockys, redshields, et al. they'll continue to do just fine until Jesus returns to rule the earth.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 18, 2013 13:59:12 GMT -5
they'll send in the jackels if the TP gets too close to changing anything. don't worry about the blooms, rockys, redshields, et al. they'll continue to do just fine until Jesus returns to rule the earth. It's the rest of us I'm worried about.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:03:14 GMT -5
they'll send in the jackels if the TP gets too close to changing anything. don't worry about the blooms, rockys, redshields, et al. they'll continue to do just fine until Jesus returns to rule the earth. It's the rest of us I'm worried about. i am fine. thanks for your concern, tho.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 1, 2024 17:33:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 14:06:12 GMT -5
they'll send in the jackels if the TP gets too close to changing anything. don't worry about the blooms, rockys, redshields, et al. they'll continue to do just fine until Jesus returns to rule the earth. they dont need to send them in they are sitting in seats next to theirs yeah....the TP is a bunch of loons too bad we dont have more of them..... maybe...just maybe....we could change the status quo
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:08:39 GMT -5
they'll send in the jackels if the TP gets too close to changing anything. don't worry about the blooms, rockys, redshields, et al. they'll continue to do just fine until Jesus returns to rule the earth. they dont need to send them in they are sitting in seats next to theirs yeah....the TP is a bunch of loons too bad we dont have more of them..... maybe...just maybe....we could change the status quo oh i am confident they would change it. the part i doubt is whether they would change it to something any better.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 18, 2013 14:11:12 GMT -5
It's the rest of us I'm worried about. i am fine. thanks for your concern, tho. I just can't fathom your worldview. But this is nothing new.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 18, 2013 14:15:44 GMT -5
That's always the problem, isn't it?
Change is painful. Catastrophic. The longer the status quo persists, the more painful and catastrophic change becomes. The more unthinkable it becomes. The easier demonizing its proponents becomes.
But you need to pull that spear out sometime. Because that guy selling you $1 trillion in painkillers a year... he's not your friend.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 1, 2024 17:33:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 14:21:06 GMT -5
That's always the problem, isn't it? Change is painful. Catastrophic. The longer the status quo persists, the more painful and catastrophic change becomes. The more unthinkable it becomes. The easier demonizing its proponents becomes. But you need to pull that spear out sometime. Because that guy selling you $1 trillion in painkillers a year... he's not your friend. love this post Virgil
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:25:28 GMT -5
i am fine. thanks for your concern, tho. I just can't fathom your worldview. really? it is not that difficult. i am happy. i love my life. what is so hard to fathom about that?But this is nothing new. you have my sympathies.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:31:50 GMT -5
That's always the problem, isn't it? what problem?Change is painful. Catastrophic. The longer the status quo persists, the more painful and catastrophic change becomes. The more unthinkable it becomes. The easier demonizing its proponents becomes. as a liberal, i love change. i embrace it. i rejoice in it. change is good. change is inevitable. but i prefer my change, when it comes in the form of governance, to be carefully considered and incremental, not the kind of change that happened on 911 or Oklahoma City.But you need to pull that spear out sometime. Because that guy selling you $1 trillion in painkillers a year... he's not your friend. you know, sometimes it is safer to break the spearhead off and let the wound heal? that is why not all shrapnel or bullets are removed. that is why they have found spearheads imbedded in the bones of Greek warriors. the cure is not always better than the disease. i would posit that in the case of the neo-fascist or anarchist portions of the TP, that is precisely the case.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:36:38 GMT -5
to address the OP: i can't fathom why pissing Bloomberg off would be evidence of anything. i bet he gets mad when his steak is overcooked.
but i guess it makes sense, if you consider the primary goal of the TP to annoy people without any productive goals in mind.
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Oct 18, 2013 14:37:39 GMT -5
give it a watch.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:38:33 GMT -5
That's always the problem, isn't it? Change is painful. Catastrophic. The longer the status quo persists, the more painful and catastrophic change becomes. The more unthinkable it becomes. The easier demonizing its proponents becomes. But you need to pull that spear out sometime. Because that guy selling you $1 trillion in painkillers a year... he's not your friend. love this post Virgil here's a napkin to mop up that drool.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:39:04 GMT -5
next time i have a spare hour, i will.
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Oct 18, 2013 14:40:00 GMT -5
That's always the problem, isn't it? Change is painful. Catastrophic. The longer the status quo persists, the more painful and catastrophic change becomes. The more unthinkable it becomes. The easier demonizing its proponents becomes. But you need to pull that spear out sometime. Because that guy selling you $1 trillion in painkillers a year... he's not your friend. Which explains all the whining about ACA before it's even given a chance.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:42:26 GMT -5
That's always the problem, isn't it? Change is painful. Catastrophic. The longer the status quo persists, the more painful and catastrophic change becomes. The more unthinkable it becomes. The easier demonizing its proponents becomes. But you need to pull that spear out sometime. Because that guy selling you $1 trillion in painkillers a year... he's not your friend. Which explains all the whining about ACA before it's even given a chance. i am a pacifist by nature, but i would jump at the chance to show Ted Cruz some "change".
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 18, 2013 14:46:42 GMT -5
That's always the problem, isn't it? what problem?Change is painful. Catastrophic. The longer the status quo persists, the more painful and catastrophic change becomes. The more unthinkable it becomes. The easier demonizing its proponents becomes. as a liberal, i love change. i embrace it. i rejoice in it. change is good. change is inevitable. but i prefer my change, when it comes in the form of governance, to be carefully considered and incremental, not the kind of change that happened on 911 or Oklahoma City.But you need to pull that spear out sometime. Because that guy selling you $1 trillion in painkillers a year... he's not your friend. you know, sometimes it is safer to break the spearhead off and let the wound heal? that is why not all shrapnel or bullets are removed. that is why they have found spearheads imbedded in the bones of Greek warriors. the cure is not always better than the disease. i would posit that in the case of the neo-fascist or anarchist portions of the TP, that is precisely the case. And as you know, we're totally at odds on whether "carefully considered and incremental" is nothing more than a hollow euphemism for "marginal and ineffective". I don't know at what point you'd abandon your faith in "carefully considered and incremental". I've considered for a long time the conditions under which I would consider the US's financial situation to be improving. It's fairly detailed. Do you have any fixed set of criteria that would cause you to abandon faith in "carefully considered and incremental"? Or stated differently: Have you given any thought to specific conditions which, if met, would convince you that 'carefully considered and incremental' simply isn't possible or isn't working? Or does that violate your "What, Me Worry?" philosophy?
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 18, 2013 14:49:48 GMT -5
That's always the problem, isn't it? Change is painful. Catastrophic. The longer the status quo persists, the more painful and catastrophic change becomes. The more unthinkable it becomes. The easier demonizing its proponents becomes. But you need to pull that spear out sometime. Because that guy selling you $1 trillion in painkillers a year... he's not your friend. Which explains all the whining about ACA before it's even given a chance. They can add.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:51:37 GMT -5
oh, one more thing: virtually all of us care about this country. but the action that inspires is what separates us. JW Booth considered himself a patriot, and an American Hero. i am sure that nutter that killed Lennon did, too. what the TP have done here in terms of governance is objectively wrong. and unless you are one of those relativists that seems to think that there is no such thing as immoral means to moral ends, i would suggest that approach matters. what you do counts. your love will not excuse your sins.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 18, 2013 14:55:36 GMT -5
oh, one more thing: virtually all of us care about this country. but the action that inspires is what separates us. JW Booth considered himself a patriot, and an American Hero. i am sure that nutter that killed Lennon did, too. what the TP have done here in terms of governance is objectively wrong. and unless you are one of those relativists that seems to think that there is no such thing as immoral means to moral ends, i would suggest that approach matters. what you do counts. your love will not excuse your sins. Enumerate the Tea Party's immoral actions for me.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 1, 2024 17:33:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 14:56:19 GMT -5
Try to change the rules mid-game and it causes problems everytime. Exempting selected players, moving the goalposts, allowing selected ringers... some players have trouble "adapting".
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:57:16 GMT -5
you know, sometimes it is safer to break the spearhead off and let the wound heal? that is why not all shrapnel or bullets are removed. that is why they have found spearheads imbedded in the bones of Greek warriors. the cure is not always better than the disease. i would posit that in the case of the neo-fascist or anarchist portions of the TP, that is precisely the case. And as you know, we're totally at odds on whether "carefully considered and incremental" is nothing more than a hollow euphemism for "marginal and ineffective". i am not speaking euphemistically.I don't know at what point you'd abandon your faith in "carefully considered and incremental". I've considered for a long time the conditions under which I would consider the US's financial situation to be improving. It's fairly detailed. i don't think there is just one answer, one solution, or one way to bring about the kind of change that is needed. and i am utterly opposed to limiting our options. the more options we have, the more likely we are to take one that will work.Do you have any fixed set of criteria that would cause you to abandon faith in "carefully considered and incremental"? Or stated differently: Have you given any thought to specific conditions which, if met, would convince you that 'carefully considered and incremental' simply isn't possible or isn't working? Or does that violate your "What, Me Worry?" philosophy? i would be very concerned if we hit $20T in debt before Obama left office. i would be very concerned if revenues to the treasury were not at 20% GDP by 2018. i would be deeply concerned if expenses were not at 21% (or, preferably, lower) by that same time. i would be concerned if headway was not made on medicare by then- if the social security was not funded for all income levels, and means tested for those who don't need it. i would be concerned if we continue to devote so much of our time and resources to war rather than to domestic security. i would be concerned if the DHS was not dismantled. so yes, there are a great deal of things that would concern me- but spending trillions out of a really bad economic downturn doesn't concern me. it is what happens over the NEXT (5) years.
|
|
Sum Dum Gai
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 15, 2011 15:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 19,892
|
Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 18, 2013 14:57:28 GMT -5
Changing the house rules to deny elected representatives the ability to call a vote on a bill in front of the house so that a minority can hijack the entire house against the will of the majority of it's members seems pretty underhanded to me. I don't know if I'd call it immoral, but it's pretty sleazy and underhanded.
It's also the kind of sleazy political games that the public hates, and the TP wasn't going to engage in. Remember? They were going to be principled and end the BS in Washington.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 14:59:29 GMT -5
oh, one more thing: virtually all of us care about this country. but the action that inspires is what separates us. JW Booth considered himself a patriot, and an American Hero. i am sure that nutter that killed Lennon did, too. what the TP have done here in terms of governance is objectively wrong. and unless you are one of those relativists that seems to think that there is no such thing as immoral means to moral ends, i would suggest that approach matters. what you do counts. your love will not excuse your sins. Enumerate the Tea Party's immoral actions for me. i didn't say that they were immoral. i said that their method of governing over the last month is objectively wrong. the last sentence was meant to make clear that i don't consider any wrong means to a right end right.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 15:01:02 GMT -5
Changing the house rules to deny elected representatives the ability to call a vote on a bill in front of the house so that a minority can hijack the entire house against the will of the majority of it's members seems pretty underhanded to me. I don't know if I'd call it immoral, but it's pretty sleazy and underhanded. i wouldn't call it immoral, either. crashing the global economy over ObamaCare, however, would have been.It's also the kind of sleazy political games that the public hates, and the TP wasn't going to engage in. Remember? They were going to be principled and end the BS in Washington. actually, no. i don't remember that. what i remember is that they viewed government as the enemy. and by golly, they sure proved that.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,294
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 18, 2013 15:06:02 GMT -5
i would like to add one MORE thing.
several conservative journals have pointed out that the budget bill is a victory for Republicans, in that it maintains the sequester. the longer they maintain it, the better they will look, imo. after all, Obama and the Democrats HATE it, and they LOVE it. what could be better than that?
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 18, 2013 15:06:37 GMT -5
And as you know, we're totally at odds on whether "carefully considered and incremental" is nothing more than a hollow euphemism for "marginal and ineffective". i am not speaking euphemistically.I don't know at what point you'd abandon your faith in "carefully considered and incremental". I've considered for a long time the conditions under which I would consider the US's financial situation to be improving. It's fairly detailed. i don't think there is just one answer, one solution, or one way to bring about the kind of change that is needed. and i am utterly opposed to limiting our options. the more options we have, the more likely we are to take one that will work.Do you have any fixed set of criteria that would cause you to abandon faith in "carefully considered and incremental"? Or stated differently: Have you given any thought to specific conditions which, if met, would convince you that 'carefully considered and incremental' simply isn't possible or isn't working? Or does that violate your "What, Me Worry?" philosophy? i would be very concerned if we hit $20T in debt before Obama left office. i would be very concerned if revenues to the treasury were not at 20% GDP by 2018. i would be deeply concerned if expenses were not at 21% by that same time. i would be concerned if headway was not made on medicare by then- if the social security was not funded for all income levels, and means tested for those who don't need it. i would be concerned if we continue to devote so much of our time and resources to war rather than to domestic security. i would be concerned if the DHS was not dismantled. so yes, there are a great deal of things that would concern me- but spending trillions out of a really bad economic downturn doesn't concern me. it is what happens over the NEXT (5) years. Excellent. At least you have criteria. You're going to see every one of the "very concerned"s come to pass, hence at least I won't be babbling out "...but DJ", "...but DJ" if we're both around five years from now, trying to convince you that a $20 T public debt, etc. did at one point concern you.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 18, 2013 15:08:52 GMT -5
i would like to add one MORE thing. several conservative journals have pointed out that the budget bill is a victory for Republicans, in that it maintains the sequester. the longer they maintain it, the better they will look, imo. after all, Obama and the Democrats HATE it, and they LOVE it. what could be better than that? The sequester is peanuts. And both Republicans and Democrats are fighting to lift the peanuts provisions made by the last sequester. I shouldn't say "peanuts", because at least it's something. But they'll need to sequester a heck of a lot more, a lot faster, if they want to make more than a symbolic dent in anything.
|
|