djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 20, 2013 13:51:09 GMT -5
Exactly Angel. The reason many of us were not "for" the ACA was because what we wanted was universal single payer coverage, like most developed nations have. If the ACA eventually develops into that, so much the better. BTW- this is the only way that Paul's assertion that a majority are against the ACA holds up- if you include people who want something more universal and public than the ACA! single payer has had 60-70% support for decades.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2013 13:57:51 GMT -5
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better." rpc.senate.gov/public/_files/alternativestothedebtlimitincreasev20.pdfand this will be the next fight amazing how one's perspective changes when the roles are reversed the quote above is from Senator Obama when President Bush wanted the debt ceiling raised in 2006 Remember this a few weeks from now
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 20, 2013 13:59:45 GMT -5
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. if so, then every president since WW2 is a failure.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 20, 2013 14:08:05 GMT -5
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. if so, then every president since WW2 is a failure.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 20, 2013 16:45:34 GMT -5
That's exactly right. And the GOP posture on this and several other issues means that they may well keep their gerrymandered house, but the presidency will be increasingly difficult to attain, and the majority in the Senate as well. And from what I have read half the republicans know it and are trying to back off this insane stand. This will cost them.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 20, 2013 16:50:06 GMT -5
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. if so, then every president since WW2 is a failure. According to Obama, they are...himself included. Yet I notice he never mentions this point anymore
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 20, 2013 17:24:01 GMT -5
if so, then every president since WW2 is a failure. According to Obama, they are...himself included. Yet I notice he never mentions this point anymore i have already stated that i think he is a war criminal and should be tried in the Hague. but they should try poppa Bush first, and then Clinton, and Junior, just to make sure they don't die before the verdict is carried out. i hope you weren't expecting me to defend him. edit: i forgot Carter. him first.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 23, 2013 8:24:24 GMT -5
According to Obama, they are...himself included. Yet I notice he never mentions this point anymore i have already stated that i think he is a war criminal and should be tried in the Hague. but they should try poppa Bush first, and then Clinton, and Junior, just to make sure they don't die before the verdict is carried out. i hope you weren't expecting me to defend him. edit: i forgot Carter. him first. Sorry, I meant "he" as in Obama....Obama never mentions his feelings about failed leadership regarding the increase in the debt limit anymore.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 23, 2013 9:44:02 GMT -5
i have already stated that i think he is a war criminal and should be tried in the Hague. but they should try poppa Bush first, and then Clinton, and Junior, just to make sure they don't die before the verdict is carried out. i hope you weren't expecting me to defend him. edit: i forgot Carter. him first. Sorry, I meant "he" as in Obama....Obama never mentions his feelings about failed leadership regarding the increase in the debt limit anymore. i was pretty clearly talking about Obama, jk
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 23, 2013 12:27:41 GMT -5
I don't know if I'd call it genius or stupid. It's a reflection of the state of politics.
I don't think your average citizen is going to notice much if the government shuts down. You might not be able to visit a national park and SS applications might be delayed. That's about it.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 23, 2013 14:07:42 GMT -5
I agree with Mr. Bill. The correct path forward at this point should be to fund Obamacare, and then document all of it's failings, and then use it as fodder in future elections.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2013 15:32:05 GMT -5
I agree with Mr. Bill. The correct path forward at this point should be to fund Obamacare, and then document all of it's failings, and then use it as fodder in future elections. Of course, when they fail in such an endeavor, it will be one more nail in their DIY coffin. What does a nation do when a political party demonstrates themselves to be a clear and present danger to themselves and others?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 23, 2013 16:05:45 GMT -5
I agree with Mr. Bill. The correct path forward at this point should be to fund Obamacare, and then document all of it's failings, and then use it as fodder in future elections. Of course, when they fail in such an endeavor, it will be one more nail in their DIY coffin. What does a nation do when a political party demonstrates themselves to be a clear and present danger to themselves and others? DIY coffin? What's that mean? Do it yourself coffin? Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. The republicans aren't going anywhere. And I'm glad for that. The only thing worse than a two party system is a one party system. If you want a one party system, then move to China. I don't think a shutdown, should one occur, or even the showboating up until this point have really hurt the republicans. As Gydyva said in another thread, the Republicans don't have much to lose by doing this. They aren't likely to lose the house, or make any sigificant gains in the senate in 2014, and anything beyond that is a virtual eternity in politics.
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 23, 2013 16:37:36 GMT -5
... The republicans aren't going anywhere. And I'm glad for that. The only thing worse than a two party system is a one party system. If you want a one party system, then move to China. ... How about a two or more party system that doesn't include the current Republican or Democratic parties?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 23, 2013 16:44:01 GMT -5
Of course, when they fail in such an endeavor, it will be one more nail in their DIY coffin. What does a nation do when a political party demonstrates themselves to be a clear and present danger to themselves and others? DIY coffin? What's that mean? Do it yourself coffin? Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. The republicans aren't going anywhere. And I'm glad for that. The only thing worse than a two party system is a one party system. If you want a one party system, then move to China. I don't think a shutdown, should one occur, or even the showboating up until this point have really hurt the republicans. As Gydyva said in another thread, the Republicans don't have much to lose by doing this. They aren't likely to lose the house, or make any sigificant gains in the senate in 2014, and anything beyond that is a virtual eternity in politics. you are mistaken. i would rate the Senate as a tossup. but don't take it from me. take it from Nate Silver. fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/senate-control-in-2014-increasingly-looks-like-a-tossup/
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Post by usaone on Sept 23, 2013 16:44:13 GMT -5
Of course, when they fail in such an endeavor, it will be one more nail in their DIY coffin. What does a nation do when a political party demonstrates themselves to be a clear and present danger to themselves and others? DIY coffin? What's that mean? Do it yourself coffin? Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. The republicans aren't going anywhere. And I'm glad for that. The only thing worse than a two party system is a one party system. If you want a one party system, then move to China. I don't think a shutdown, should one occur, or even the showboating up until this point have really hurt the republicans. As Gydyva said in another thread, the Republicans don't have much to lose by doing this. They aren't likely to lose the house, or make any sigificant gains in the senate in 2014, and anything beyond that is a virtual eternity in politics. That's ridiculous. Of course its hurting us. Its a good thing because we are not going to lose anymore ground than we already have over the last seven years ?? How about gaining some ground. Unbelievable.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 23, 2013 16:57:02 GMT -5
... The republicans aren't going anywhere. And I'm glad for that. The only thing worse than a two party system is a one party system. If you want a one party system, then move to China. ... How about a two or more party system that doesn't include the current Republican or Democratic parties? Works for me.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 23, 2013 16:58:01 GMT -5
DIY coffin? What's that mean? Do it yourself coffin? Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. The republicans aren't going anywhere. And I'm glad for that. The only thing worse than a two party system is a one party system. If you want a one party system, then move to China. I don't think a shutdown, should one occur, or even the showboating up until this point have really hurt the republicans. As Gydyva said in another thread, the Republicans don't have much to lose by doing this. They aren't likely to lose the house, or make any sigificant gains in the senate in 2014, and anything beyond that is a virtual eternity in politics. you are mistaken. i would rate the Senate as a tossup. but don't take it from me. take it from Nate Silver. fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/senate-control-in-2014-increasingly-looks-like-a-tossup/I will take it from you DJ. I won't doubt you, ever.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 23, 2013 17:03:57 GMT -5
I will take it from you DJ. I won't doubt you, ever. they don't call me polldancer for nothing, bro.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 23, 2013 17:21:12 GMT -5
DIY coffin? What's that mean? Do it yourself coffin? Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. The republicans aren't going anywhere. And I'm glad for that. The only thing worse than a two party system is a one party system. If you want a one party system, then move to China. I don't think a shutdown, should one occur, or even the showboating up until this point have really hurt the republicans. As Gydyva said in another thread, the Republicans don't have much to lose by doing this. They aren't likely to lose the house, or make any sigificant gains in the senate in 2014, and anything beyond that is a virtual eternity in politics. you are mistaken. i would rate the Senate as a tossup. but don't take it from me. take it from Nate Silver. fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/senate-control-in-2014-increasingly-looks-like-a-tossup/Completely OT, but have you heard Silver is leaving the NYTimes and going to work for ESPN? Seems odd IMO, but apparently he will still be doing the same sort of stuff he has done with political analysis and election forecasting.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 23, 2013 17:25:08 GMT -5
Completely OT, but have you heard Silver is leaving the NYTimes and going to work for ESPN? Seems odd IMO, but apparently he will still be doing the same sort of stuff he has done with political analysis and election forecasting. he got into statistics through sports, so this is a return for him. it is his "first passion".
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 23, 2013 17:27:49 GMT -5
Completely OT, but have you heard Silver is leaving the NYTimes and going to work for ESPN? Seems odd IMO, but apparently he will still be doing the same sort of stuff he has done with political analysis and election forecasting. he got into statistics through sports, so this is a return for him. it is his "first passion". Ah. Did not know that. So the move makes sense. Plus, apparently he said 2014 is going to be a pretty boring election year, so not too much election-wise to talk about for a while.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 23, 2013 17:49:15 GMT -5
he got into statistics through sports, so this is a return for him. it is his "first passion". Ah. Did not know that. So the move makes sense. Plus, apparently he said 2014 is going to be a pretty boring election year, so not too much election-wise to talk about for a while. money is better in sports, too. he got paid big for this.
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