Dogs as Birthday gifts

[Deleted]

Jul 31, 2013 10:30:14 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

ok, I guess I should have said it's wonderful that you're going to adopt from a breeder so that you can get a dog that has the perfect traits that you want and we can all bury our heads in the sand as to the harsh reality.

Yes, because THAT is the only other possible answer. 

How about "I hope you and your new pup have a long and happy life together"?

We are all adults here and know what happens at shelters. Next you'll be playing the Sarah McLaughlin song....

sorry, but I don't think most people know what happens at shelters.

[Deleted]

Are we going getting graphic pictures too? 

[Spellbound454]

In my defence...I had a Border/Welsh Collie rescued from a shelter.....She was so skinny (8Kg) that I thought she was a lurcher mix 
I gave her the food and permanent home she needed.... and spent years with trainers working on her issues.....She turned out great and I loved her to bits... but it was a heck of a journey.
She would have full scale panic attacks when we were out....and I could do nothing but put the muzzle on her and sit with her in a quiet place until she calmed down.

Border Collies are different to other dogs. They are the most intelligent breed and need a lot of mental stimulation... or they go crazy.
Unscrupulous puppy farmers keep them in sheds, then release them when they find they can no longer handle them.

My girl was so beautiful...She won loads of prizes even at national level,  I had the best looking dog in the county.... but she had been mistreated as a pup and sweet and lovely as she was, it never quite went away.

I would get another rescue dog (and may get a companion for the pup)...but not a Border Collie.

I intend to do flyball and agility with the new girl. I need a sporty, highly intelligent dog and I've paid a good price.
..(and I'm lucky to get a female from such good lines)
I've chosen a dog for the family to enjoy....not just as a pet but to pursue an interest which will be great for her and us.
She needs this type of stimulation and exercise in order to develop properly.

....and she wont be ending up like the other one....In rescue, starving and out of control.

[midjd]

Singlemom, aren't you the same poster who claims that anyone who lets a dog roam outside or feeds it anything but premium food should not be a pet owner? So it's a tragedy that these dogs are euthanized (and I agree on that point), but if only the people who meet your criteria should own pets, what other options are there?

[Spellbound454]

Spell- what kind of dog sports do you do? I do agility with mine. I tried flyball but it wasn't for us.

I'm starting with obedience... then taking courses for agility and flyball.
I've done obedience before, the old dog took to it really well but she was too highly strung for flyball.
So it will be a new venture for us and something I'm looking forward to 

...and yes the pup has a crate.. and will be crate trained to help her settle at night.
I also want to use it for when we have visitors, or when we are eating......She will be a house dog.
Not used one before but she wont be in it for long periods.

[Deleted]

Jul 31, 2013 11:02:54 GMT -5 midjd said:

Singlemom, aren't you the same poster who claims that anyone who lets a dog roam outside or feeds it anything but premium food should not be a pet owner? So it's a tragedy that these dogs are euthanized (and I agree on that point), but if only the people who meet your criteria should own pets, what other options are there?

letting it roam free outside all over the neighborhood (no fenced in yard)?  don't agree with that.  keeping the dog outside all the time?  don't agree with that.   no opinion on food (my animals don't get premium food and I don't cook food for them).

[Spellbound454]

agilemom - we had a rescue that did not want to adopt to us because we go to dog parks. *shrug* The smaller rescue groups, especially ones that rescue only specific (and often less common) breeds, don't have a shelter and only use foster homes often have very specific rules. Sometimes the fostering family gets to choose whether or not someone gets the dog, and their reason can be as simple as they didn't like the car you drove.

Have to agree with that. I tried to rescue a Labrador pup prior to getting our Collie and the guy said we couldn't have her because she would be too boisterous.
We had Labradors when we were growing up...so its not like I didn't know what I was taking on.
Its almost like he just didn't want to part with the pup....and nothing was going to be good enough.

[Abby Normal]

Jul 31, 2013 11:07:28 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Spell- what kind of dog sports do you do? I do agility with mine. I tried flyball but it wasn't for us.

I'm starting with obedience... then taking courses for agility and flyball.
I've done obedience before, the old dog took to it really well but she was too highly strung for flyball.
So it will be a new venture for us and something I'm looking forward to 

...and yes the pup has a crate.. and will be crate trained to help her settle at night.
I also want to use it for when we have visitors, or when we are eating......She will be a house dog.
Not used one before but she wont be in it for long periods.

Have fun with agility.  I've done it for almost 12 years with different dogs (hence the name agilemom) .  I just do it as a hobby, not serious competition. But my new aussie is going to be awesome. I'm getting the serious competitive bug.  What area of the country are you in?




Yes, private rescues can eliminate someone for almost any reason. But to say it was because they wanted to crate train is ridiculous.   That is dog person 101.  For a rescue to say they didn't want that would give me the bad vibe.

[Deleted]

Jul 31, 2013 11:30:34 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Yes, private rescues can eliminate someone for almost any reason. But to say it was because they wanted to crate train is ridiculous.   That is dog person 101.  For a rescue to say they didn't want that would give me the bad vibe.

She was almost 2 hours away, so pretty far away from civilization. She said that she didn't believe in "putting dogs in cages" and that her dogs got the run of her house and her yard.

She said she leaves the door open while she's at work and the dogs get to roam in and out as they see fit. Which is nice when you have a bunch of property. We have just shy of an acre and are on a corner lot, so 1/2 our lot is too close to the road for me to comfortably let a dog roam. 

ETA: plus there is no way in HELL I am leaving my house unlocked every day! 

[Spellbound454]

Have fun with agility. I've done it for almost 12 years with different dogs (hence the name agilemom) . I just do it as a hobby, not serious competition. But my new aussie is going to be awesome. I'm getting the serious competitive bug. What area of the country are you in?

Marvellous....An expert on the board to consult with when we get started...

Actually I'm in England but there are lots of clubs round and about for agility and flyball.
I don't even know if she will be any good yet.......but she could certainly do with the stimulation.....and like you say it can be for fun and exercise.

I love the look of those aussies....but there aren't too many over here, so they are quite difficult to get hold of.

[whoisjohngalt]

Who would have thought that YM can't even agree on how to acquire a dog....

I like dogs, but don't want to have one.  I am pretty sure I will be over-ruled by my DH and my kids in a few years

[Abby Normal]

Jul 31, 2013 11:40:37 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Have fun with agility. I've done it for almost 12 years with different dogs (hence the name agilemom) . I just do it as a hobby, not serious competition. But my new aussie is going to be awesome. I'm getting the serious competitive bug. What area of the country are you in?

Marvellous....An expert on the board to consult with when we get started...

Actually I'm in England but there are lots of clubs round and about for agility and flyball.
I don't even know if she will be any good yet.......but she could certainly do with the stimulation.....and like you say it can be for fun and exercise.

I love the look of those aussies....but there aren't too many over here, so they are quite difficult to get hold of.

You'll have a blast with it. Border Collies are so much fun for agility.  One of my other dogs is a rescue that is a BC mix.  It took me along time to think as fast as he does on course.  

How many BC /Aussies does it take to change a light bulb?

One- but they did it 48 times while you were thinking about it.

[swamp]

Jul 31, 2013 11:38:52 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

Jul 31, 2013 11:30:34 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Yes, private rescues can eliminate someone for almost any reason. But to say it was because they wanted to crate train is ridiculous.   That is dog person 101.  For a rescue to say they didn't want that would give me the bad vibe.

She was almost 2 hours away, so pretty far away from civilization. She said that she didn't believe in "putting dogs in cages" and that her dogs got the run of her house and her yard.

She said she leaves the door open while she's at work and the dogs get to roam in and out as they see fit. Which is nice when you have a bunch of property. We have just shy of an acre and are on a corner lot, so 1/2 our lot is too close to the road for me to comfortably let a dog roam. 

ETA: plus there is no way in HELL I am leaving my house unlocked every day! 

My brother was also turned down from pet ownership from a rescue group for Labs because he intended to crate train. He has a fenced in yard, but the dog would be in the crate while they were at work. The rescue lady told him crates were cruel and dogs should have the run of the house and yard.

[Deleted]

Was she in North Java by any chance? 
ETA: my bad! How about Pavilion? 

[Abby Normal]

Jul 31, 2013 13:03:38 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jul 31, 2013 11:38:52 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

She was almost 2 hours away, so pretty far away from civilization. She said that she didn't believe in "putting dogs in cages" and that her dogs got the run of her house and her yard.

She said she leaves the door open while she's at work and the dogs get to roam in and out as they see fit. Which is nice when you have a bunch of property. We have just shy of an acre and are on a corner lot, so 1/2 our lot is too close to the road for me to comfortably let a dog roam. 

ETA: plus there is no way in HELL I am leaving my house unlocked every day! 

My brother was also turned down from pet ownership from a rescue group for Labs because he intended to crate train. He has a fenced in yard, but the dog would be in the crate while they were at work. The rescue lady told him crates were cruel and dogs should have the run of the house and yard.

Our lab would have been dead if we hadn't crated him.  He would eat anything if left to his own devices.  After two emergency surgeries, we joked that he needed a zipper put in. 

Now that he's older, he's past that stage, but as a young dog. No freaking way would I leave him loose unattended. 

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Jul 31, 2013 10:38:18 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

Jul 31, 2013 10:30:14 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

Yes, because THAT is the only other possible answer. 

How about "I hope you and your new pup have a long and happy life together"?

We are all adults here and know what happens at shelters. Next you'll be playing the Sarah McLaughlin song....

sorry, but I don't think most people know what happens at shelters.

*I* do know what happens at shelters.  And it truly breaks my heart.  But, I also know that there are certain dog issues/characteristics that I am not equipped to handle.  I cannot handle a dog who is timid, or aggressive, due to neglect or abuse before arriving at the shelter.  I would do such a dog no favors by adopting hin/her (who would likely end right back in the shelter and labelled and therefore likely put down quickly).  

Unfortunately, there ARE shelters/fosters who aren't entirely knowledgeable and/or honest about the dogs in their care.  I mean, there is simply NFW the vast majority of dogs on Petfinder are labs (generally considered a good family dog).  Let's face it -- most shelter dogs are mutts of unknown parentage, not the "breed of the moment".  And I get royally pissed when I see a pit bull identified simply as a "terrier".  Yes, not all pit bulls are vicious.  But, if one makes it into a shelter in the first place, it does raise reasonable questions about its propensity for aggression.  What if a family with young vulnerable children unknowingly and unwittingly adopted a "terrier" without seeing that it is really a pit bull mix in disguise?  

My point is that I tried very hard to adopt a shelter dog.  But, I know my abilities and my limits.  I even was considered by a local SPCA for the adoption of a beautiful redbone coonhound pup until the shelter folks observed some very concerning resource guarding behaviors.  The SPCA very wisely rejected my application because of my lack of current and recent dog ownership.  

So, as much as I, like you, go through life as an idealist wanting to fix all that is wrong in the world, including eliminating kill shelters, I am wise enough to know what *I* am capable of fixing and what is truly beyond my skill set.  If that makes me selfish, then so be it.  But, remember *I* am NOT the reason so many dogs are abandoned or abused or neglected and then end up in kill shelters.  Turn your legitimate anger toward the irresponsible original owners who treat living, breathing, feeling dogs like garbage and not toward people like me who have actually given dog ownership a great deal of thought and done a great deal of research so that I will be a RESPONSIBLE dog owner.  

[Abby Normal]

and not toward people like me who have actually given dog ownership a great deal of thought and done a great deal of research so that I will be a RESPONSIBLE dog owner.

Some big kudos from me for taking your time in the decision, doing the research, and deciding what is the best breed for you.

I am an advocate for rescue dogs. However, far too often, people decide they want a dog without any knowledge on the breed they are getting. That is a large reason why so many end up as rescues because people did not know what they were getting into.  

And please keep in mind that not all shelters/rescues are good. Do some homework.  

www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Oregon-Humane-Society-rescues-137-dogs-186793881.html

A friend of mine was involved with confiscating these dogs. 

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Jul 31, 2013 13:44:23 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

and not toward people like me who have actually given dog ownership a great deal of thought and done a great deal of research so that I will be a RESPONSIBLE dog owner.

Some big kudos from me for taking your time in the decision, doing the research, and deciding what is the best breed for you.

I am an advocate for rescue dogs. However, far too often, people decide they want a dog without any knowledge on the breed they are getting. That is a large reason why so many end up as rescues because people did not know what they were getting into.  

And please keep in mind that not all shelters/rescues are good. Do some homework.  

www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Oregon-Humane-Society-rescues-137-dogs-186793881.html

A friend of mine was involved with confiscating these dogs. 

I've been watching Petfinder for at least 3 years.  I have seen some very questionable postings -- breeds mislabeled, challenging behaviors mentioned only in passing, EVERY dog was found by the roadside by a caring passerby (i.e., a pull-on-the-heartstrings sob story rather than behind honest about the dog being handed to or back to the shelter when difficult behaviors arise), etc.

I've sadly learned to take Petfinder postings with a HUGE grain of salt.  I know there are MANY, MANY dogs that need homes.  I know that shelters and fosters are volunteers and spend huge amounts of money out of their own pockets to care for the dogs.  I know, that for a small minority of shelters, there is financial and logistical incentive to adopt the dogs out ASAP.  

I just know that I don't have the knowledge and the experience to sort out the wheat from the small amount of chaff when it comes to shelters and shelter dogs.  

[mollyanna58]

Let's face it -- most shelter dogs are mutts of unknown parentage, not the "breed of the moment". And I get royally pissed when I see a pit bull identified simply as a "terrier". Yes, not all pit bulls are vicious. But, if one makes it into a shelter in the first place, it does raise reasonable questions about its propensity for aggression. What if a family with young vulnerable children unknowingly and unwittingly adopted a "terrier" without seeing that it is really a pit bull mix in disguise?

Yes - most shelter dogs are strays of unknown ancestry.  People take an educated or sometimes uneducated guess of a mutt's heritage.  Most get lumped into categories like lab mix, shepherd mix, pit mix, chihuahua mix, rottie mix; unless there are some really distinctive coats or features that suggest a less common breed. 

One of my fosters was described at a lab/pit/terrier mix.  She was seized along with 33 other dogs from a backyard breeder.  She had a lab body with a pit face, but she was much smaller than either of those breeds.  I don't know what the person was trying to breed.

[Abby Normal]

EVERY dog was found by the roadside by a caring passerby (i.e., a pull-on-the-heartstrings sob story rather than behind honest about the dog being handed to or back to the shelter when difficult behaviors arise)

Unfortunately, that may not be as inaccurate as you think.  Since the economy took a dive, we've had a huge surge of dogs found this way in our area.  People them rather than pay a surrender fee at the shelter.  If you take your dog in and say it's your dog, you pay a surrender fee.  If a good samaritan takes it in, there is no charge. There are alot of people who turn their dogs loose, or take them in saying that they are the good samaritan so they don't have to pay the fee. 

I don't know what the person was trying to breed.

Maybe they weren't trying .  I've seen some ugly accidents.  Picture a Golden Retriever/ Basset hound mix.  Golden body and face with basset legs.  Reason number 183 to get your dog spayed or neutered.

[midjd]

Maybe they weren't trying . I've seen some ugly accidents. Picture a Golden Retriever/ Basset hound mix. Golden body and face with basset legs. Reason number 183 to get your dog spayed or neutered.

Aww, that sounds kind of cute   My mom's dog (which my sister did find by the side of the road, poor thing) is - as best we can tell - a shih tzu with some beagle and maybe schnauzer in her. Smooshed face and wiry hair that looks greasy 10 minutes after you give her a bath. Her hair is longer near her back legs, so pre-grooming, she looks like she's wearing a hula skirt. Luckily she has a good personality

[Abby Normal]

Aww, that sounds kind of cute

It was very disturbing. Just...not....right...

[Spellbound454]

It was even a bit dodgy looking at the puppy sites when I was looking for my pup.

There were some described as Border Collies which clearly weren't......There were some with streaming noses (which is a sign of distemper)
Merles are popular, but some people had stupidly bred merle to merle... and they were some oddly white pups which you know could be deaf.
There were others who weren't with their mother....and places which appeared to be selling all sorts of puppies.

.....and there are six times as many more males advertised than females. I think the girls just end up as breeding stock.

There is a nasty under belly going on with the puppy market I think.

I visited my pup and saw her parents (It wasn't a puppy farm just an occasional/hobby breeder).........I named her on the KC forms and checked her out.
It looks ok... but you never know. Just have to wait until she arrives and see what we have got.

I love dogs and am not ready to be dog-less.....They are some great little animals out there waiting for a home.
...but getting the right one for your family isn't that easy.

[Jaguar]

I was just on IE looking at the Board and not wearing my glasses, I read the thread as "Drugs as Birthday Gifts".

Which Mom will need when the kid gets the dog.

[Spellbound454]

Maybe they weren't trying . I've seen some ugly accidents. Picture a Golden Retriever/ Basset hound mix. Golden body and face with basset legs. Reason number 183 to get your dog spayed or neutered.

I don't know if you get this in the US.....but we have a whole host of mixed breeds with made up names.......Cockapoo, Goldendoodle, Springador, Sprollie.
What the heck?...Its a con. If you want a golden retriever, buy one....don't pay twice as much for a cross breed mutt.....unless you want a cross breed, of course,... but it should be cheaper.

As for getting them neutered I heartily agree.

[Abby Normal]

Jul 31, 2013 15:40:36 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Maybe they weren't trying . I've seen some ugly accidents. Picture a Golden Retriever/ Basset hound mix. Golden body and face with basset legs. Reason number 183 to get your dog spayed or neutered.

I don't know if you get this in the US.....but we have a whole host of mixed breeds with made up names.......Cockapoo, Goldendoodle, Springador, Sprollie.
What the heck?...Its a con. If you want a golden retriever, buy one....don't pay twice as much for a cross breed mutt.....unless you want a cross breed, of course,... but it should be cheaper.

As for getting them neutered I heartily agree.

Oh goodness yet- there is a whole host of "Designer" dogs.  I like to remind people that they are basically paying a large price tag for a mutt.

I'm surprised that Merle bc's are popular over there.  You don't see them very often here.   I admit that is why I wanted an aussie over a bc.  She's a blue merle.

[Cass]

Jul 31, 2013 10:09:52 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

There is more to adopting a dog than seeing it on Petfinder and bringing it home.

There is no guarantee that someone who WANTS to adopt a dog from a rescue is going to be allowed to do so. I know because I applied to a rescue site that I found on Petfinder and was turned down because the person who ran the rescue did not like that I was planning on crate training. 

I can tell that you are passionate about rescuing dogs, and that is admirable.

However, what I don't agree with is you trying to lay a guilt trip a specific poster (or two) because they do not choose to go that route. If you were to keep things to generalities then I wouldn't have a problem with you continuing your spiel. 

I'm late to the conversation, but as the (other?) owner of a purebred, I wanted to point out that I would never personally purchase from a breeder.  When I was looking for a companion for my first dog, I took out a Craigslist type ad saying I wanted a large, short haired male who would get along with my first dog.  I got about 5 emails and met 3 dogs... the Dane was the one who fit. 

My first is the product of a Doberman and a Lab that hopped her fence.  My second being purebred is completely coincidental. 

[ginpin]

Regarding 'Designer' dogs...I was on Kijiji.com, and saw someone selling 'Sheepadoodles' for $1,500 a piece!  Old English Sheepdog and poodle-cross...in 'rare' colors!  I just sit here and wonder what the heck those people are thinking...just greedy for the money those pups could bring, from idiots who don't realize they are getting a MUTT.



<---------Tucker, my BC/pit mix...we line in a breed-ban area, so I leave off the 'pit' part a lot.

[violagirl]

I just finished a Nosework class with my dachshund mix. It was the first class we have done together that I think was a really good fit for his personality. Long sits and stays are not his thing, but telling him to sniff out treats - he was all into that! Playing hide and go seek was fun too. On rainy days I hide treats and toys around the house and say "find it" and my dogs go crazy running around trying to find every last one. After seeing him get stuck in a narrow bookshelf yesterday because he tried to turn around instead of back out - I decided that perhaps earth work wasn't going to be his thing. He does dig on command. Which was handy when I was doing my garden this year. Saved me some shovelling. 

[Spellbound454]

One- but they did it 48 times while you were thinking about it
I admit that is why I wanted an aussie over a bc. She's a blue merle.

Yes I had that when training my Collie. She was a better dog than I was trainer.
Once in competition, in front of a crowd, she got bored. She came on recall, then I just stood there like an idiot as she went through her whole repertoire of tricks... ending up with a bow and barking at me.

I know aussies are predominantly blue merle...but its getting more and more popular with bcs.
The old girl was red sable and white, whilst the new one is black and white... but she is out of a blue merle and tri.... The litter mates are all sorts of colours.
Its only a problem if you breed double merles (double dilutes) as they can have associated health problems.
I wanted a different coloured dog so I would be reminded that she is a different animal.... and not compare her to the last one.

'Sheepadoodles' for $1,500 a piece!

The problem with designer dog crossbreeds is they are not a breed so you don't really know what you are getting.
An Old English Poodle cross could be anything from an Old English to a Poodle....... or somewhere in between......and each pup could be different.
People are making a lot of money out of this and some combinations wouldn't seem sensible.
I've recently seen Collie cross Samoyed....So you could potentially have a small/medium dog with too much fur.
Poodles don't shed like Old English's do...and you would potentially have to clip the dog to make sure it didn't overheat.
..and a long dense coat which was curly would take a lot of grooming.

I like cross breeds...and for a family dog you could possibly have a healthy mix and end up with a healthier dog.
It doesn't have to be a purebred to be your most important and valuable friend.
but I'm not sure designer dogs are anything but a money making exercise.