WWYD: Cape Cod real estate

[chiver78]

I am thinking aloud here.....I'm still stuck until I can unload the current place. all constructive opinions are welcome, I'm still not really sure what I'm doing.

my "working plan" for what to do next has been to buy a house on Cape Cod (making it my "primary" residence) and then finding an apartment or roommate share as cheaply as possible, near work. I would alter my work schedule to 4x10 days, which my boss is totally okay with. I've already broached the subject, and he's jealous that his position doesn't allow him that same flexibility.

someone sent me a listing for an immaculate garden-style condo  this morning that got me thinking...and poking around more online listings. it seems that there are condos on the Cape that are ridiculously cheap - under $100k. it's not just one complex, or one town, either. so, I'm wondering - would it make sense for me to buy something like that to make sure I like the area? I could focus on paying down the dramatically lower (than what I'm used to) mortgage in just a few years, then I could hang onto the place to rent out to vacationers.

I ran some quick numbers this morning on bankrate.com. removing my current mortgage from the equation, bankrate tells me I could be approved for well over $400k. I have zero interest in spending anywhere close to that..... but, if I were to buy something small - since it's just me right now - and pay it off, or damn close to it, in a few years.....it wouldn't be much to be approved for enough to buy a cute house (in the $200k range) in a few years while also owning the condo. this way, I can make sure I like the area as a year-round resident as opposed to just a seasonal one, and it's not a huge dent in the wallet at the same time.

I am kind of all over the place lately, I know this. part of the reason I'm making this major change is that in the past year or so, I've seen some friends lose their cancer battles way too young. I'm not getting any younger, and I really don't want to be where I am now. I am 34 and single, which is fine. I think I'd be doing myself a disservice to make my next RE move thinking I will be married by the time I want to move again, because I really don't know what the universe has in store for me. all I know is that where I am now is not where I am supposed to be for the rest of my life.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

I guess the first questions that comes to my mind -- never having met you and only knowing you from what you post here -- are that, since you do seem to have a fairly active social life in these parts (hockey, concerts, meeting up with friends at the local dive bars, etc.), will you lose that if you move to the Cape?

And, if the local social scene IS still valuable to you, will a tiny 1 bedroom condo allow you to invite your friends down to visit you on the Cape?  

[Malarky]

Without owning a helicopter I wouldn't even consider having a residence on the cape and working off cape.  You will spend an enormous amount of time commuting.  Summer traffic aside, it's a long haul from here to there, and the traffic is never good.  Some days are much better than others, but never good. 

[Deleted]

I'm just wondering why you would want to buy another condo.  There is a reason why these places are so cheap: no one wants them.  Are most of them rentals already?  How much are the maintenance fees?  And would a one-bedroom attract much interest in the vacation rental market?

Like you, I am just thinking aloud.  I know nothing about the market in your area.  I will say that $100,000 will barely buy a two-bedroom "decent" (in need of upgrading) condo in my LCOL area.  So I can't imagine what you are looking at.

Good luck!

[Deleted]

I think I would try renting one for a year before I bought.

If things are cheap there's usually a reason for it.

[chiver78]

I was surprised to see the prices what they were, honestly. and if it's something that I could hang onto forever and rent out long after it's paid off, that seems like a good idea to me.    single family homes were in the range of what my townhouse in the 'burbs is listed for, which is fine and reasonable to me.

GRG, I have a few friends that live on the Cape year-round, as well as some others that split vacation homes with family. I don't think I'd have too much trouble "setting up shop" there     as far as family/friends visiting, these aren't exactly tiny 1-BR places. there were a handful of 3-BR places in the $140s.

Malarky, I wouldn't be commuting - I'd stay up here for the work week. I'd be stupid to leave this employer while I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. I have so much flexibility there, and so many ways to make it work for me to be somewhere I want to be.

Susana - everything in your post has crossed my mind over the course of the day. I have a realtor in that area that I'll likely be working with, if I go this route. she's the wife of a trusted co-worker, and I've been bouncing info requests off her (thru my colleague) for awhile now. obviously I'll be asking her about these complexes and all that, when it's time to make any moves. like I said, I'm still trying to get rid of this place.....without much luck.

Bonn - you'd rent in both places? my intent is to move myself to the Cape eventually. while I'm still working almost 45 minutes due west of Boston, I will need to rent space (still yet TBD) near work if I don't want a hellacious commute.

lots of stuff to think about, thanks for the thoughts.

[Deleted]

Hi Chiver: Since I watch a lot of HGTV I'll throw out an idea from there. Why not buy a place with a finished basement or duel living area & aim for you taking the smaller part of it & renting out the larger part of it? Also at a later date if you get married you could switch to the larger part of the house & rent the smaller part out.  That would seem to fit the bill for what you want & much easier than trying to buy something else to rent later.

[Deleted]

Bonn - you'd rent in both places? my intent is to move myself to the Cape eventually. while I'm still working almost 45 minutes due west of Boston, I will need to rent space (still yet TBD) near work if I don't want a hellacious commute.

Why not? What's the hurry in buying? Aren't you single?

Take the time to do your research and get a really good place at a good price.

[Tennesseer]

Chiver-I think a condo would be better for you at this stage of your life.  You would be spending more time away from the house than living in it.  I think of security issues with a single family house.  You are gone say Monday-Thursday.  Folks with bad intentions soon learn your schedule.  

With a condo, others would be around to keep an eye on everything that goes on around the complex.

[chiver78]

thanks, tex. that's an option I'm absolutely considering too. this morning's link-leaps were solely condos. I'm considering all realistic and sound options when it's time to make those decisions.    it is just me at the moment, and I really don't need that much space.

Bonn, the rush to buy something isn't really a rush, but an "I should own 'something' even if it is something I'm renting out." I own now, and take advantage of the mortgage deduction. I know that as a single person, I don't really have that many deductions. my salary is edging up to $100k, it just seems like a good idea to me to own something, so that I can take the tax write-offs. as far as timelines, I'm doing my research now.    I can't do much until I unload my current place. I could probably be approved for a loan to buy one of these really cheap places, but I'm not going to do that without a lot of homework first. this thread is a lot of thinking out loud, thanks for challenging me here!

Tenn - that's exactly why I'm thinking a condo might be better in the short term, until I figure out whether I want to be here or there. it's also why I bought the place I did the last time around, I was traveling for weeks at a time.

[Tennesseer]

Chiver-what ever you do, don't think out loud to family.

I was on the phone with my aged dad one time and thinking out loud about buying a second home in Florida so I could have a place to retire to.  What my dad heard was I was buying a home for he and my mom in Florida for them move into.  They told all their friends I was buying them a home.  

I had to let them down gently it wasn't gonna happen and they were stuck in Massachusetts.  

[chiver78]

Tenn, that is exactly why I'm thinking aloud here.


ETA: fwiw, my parents aren't sure what to do with me. I think my dad is happy that I'm doing something that makes me happy (even if it means I am buying another place that he "has to" help update to my liking haha - he doesn't have to do anything, he gets mildly insulted when I don't ask for his help.) my mom thinks I've lost my mind.....but I'm done listening to her RE advice - she managed to convince me that buying a 1-BR condo inside the 128 belt was a bad idea when I bought my first place b/c it wasn't something that was going to re-sell well. instead, I ended up outside the 495 belt w/a 2-BR that sold pretty nicely, but not nearly as nicely as those 1-BRs in the area I'd originally been looking.

and if my parents' house were listable right now (it's not even close) and sold quickly, they would buy this place in a heartbeat. it's spitting distance to where Mom works, it's right on the highway for Dad (he works construction), and it's about an hour away from my sis the way they drive, while still being small "city" living.

[phil5185]

I own now, and take advantage of the mortgage deduction. I know that as a single person, I don't really have that many deductions. my salary is edging up to $100k,

But will you get a tax deduction on a $100k mortgage?  The interest will be only $4000 and your standard deduction gives you a bunch of that - only the part above the 'standard' counts. Eg, if $2000 of the mortgage interest counts, and if you are in a 28% bracket, you get a $560 tax break - probably not a decision point?

Are you taking the whole $17,500 401k deduction? (That's in addition to your standard deduction.)

[Deleted]

Nice post phil5185

I would also add that acquiring real estate just for tax purposes is generally NOT a good idea.

You need to look at the BUSINESS reason for buying the property, especially if it's going to be a future rental.

Don't be in a hurry. Think about the lessons you've learned from your last place i.e. I'm thinking that you're not going to be a happy camper living next door to a vacation rental...

[Deleted]

Why do you feel that 'buying' is the right approach to trying out an area.  Is it because you perceive the prices to be so low?

Honestly I can't figure out why you would even touch a condo after what your neighbor from hell has put you through!!

A stand alone garden cottage that is highly rentable (walkable to beach or downtown areas) - yes, that I'd consider, but I don't think their prices are as rock bottom as what you are seeing with the condos.  The summer rents are not reported to have gone down much, so it has me curious what is so unique about these condos.  Are condo associations bankrupting a lot there?

If you can't afford to buy out your current underwater situation, I don't see how you could afford more house & not only more house, but megga commute + have to have a weekday shared room/home thing going.  While I guess you could make it work it seems really far fetched as a lifestyle and a long way from YM practical!


Are there any turnkey rentals with regular clientele you could purchase reasonably on the cape?  I'm thinking elderly couple ready to retire to Florida, so its time to unload the cottage on the cape.  Treat it as SOLELY a business enterprise & rental is it's primary goal and ONLY justification for buying.  Then when there are open weekends you can allow yourself to go out there & try the commute/lifestyle.

[Deleted]

Jun 9, 2013 15:59:08 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Bonn - you'd rent in both places? my intent is to move myself to the Cape eventually. while I'm still working almost 45 minutes due west of Boston, I will need to rent space (still yet TBD) near work if I don't want a hellacious commute.

lots of stuff to think about, thanks for the thoughts.

When are you going to hook up with Carl?  I'm pretty sure he'd rent you a room 'cause eventually we're going to talk him into that 3/2 in the burbs 

[chiver78]

I'm thinking that you're not going to be a happy camper living next door to a vacation rental...

very good point. but if I'm looking at it as a temporary space to make sure I like the area, I can put up with more than I would if it were a more permanent spot. the reason I'd even look at something in a vacation rental spot is that it's exactly what I would use it for once I found a more permanent spot for myself. is that not a good plan?

and thanks, phil.....I was never going to crunch those tax numbers myself. I guess now's a good a time as any to ask this - I'd still itemize even w/o the larger mtg I'm carrying now. I donate well over what's allowed w/o itemizing, between cash and stuff over the year. I'd think that would still make a difference, no?

[chiver78]

Jun 9, 2013 17:53:48 GMT -5 @rockit said:

Why do you feel that 'buying' is the right approach to trying out an area.  Is it because you perceive the prices to be so low?

Honestly I can't figure out why you would even touch a condo after what your neighbor from hell has put you through!!

A stand alone garden cottage that is highly rentable (walkable to beach or downtown areas) - yes, that I'd consider, but I don't think their prices are as rock bottom as what you are seeing with the condos.  The summer rents are not reported to have gone down much, so it has me curious what is so unique about these condos.  Are condo associations bankrupting a lot there?

If you can't afford to buy out your current underwater situation, I don't see how you could afford more house & not only more house, but megga commute + have to have a weekday shared room/home thing going.  While I guess you could make it work it seems really far fetched as a lifestyle and a long way from YM practical!


Are there any turnkey rentals with regular clientele you could purchase reasonably on the cape?  I'm thinking elderly couple ready to retire to Florida, so its time to unload the cottage on the cape.  Treat it as SOLELY a business enterprise & rental is it's primary goal and ONLY justification for buying.  Then when there are open weekends you can allow yourself to go out there & try the commute/lifestyle.

I don't feel that buying is the right approach to try out an area. this new spot is still my "area" and I'm pretty well familiar with it, having spent quite a bit of seasonal time there over my life. as I said, I want to make sure I like it as a year-round resident before I buy something as a permanent home. I don't feel that a garden-style condo, anywhere, is a permanent home for me.

I would consider a condo as my temporary spot for the simple reason Tennesseer pointed out - that I won't be here all the time. I'll be doing a split-living thing where I have a small apt close to work for my 4x10's during the week.

as far as my being underwater, I am not anymore. between what extra I've thrown at my note and what the market's reset, I could absolutely sell my place to clear what I owe. that said, I've listed at a price I feel is fair considering market values in my area, and within my own complex. that price will actually net me about $10k, if I can sell for that price. quite frankly, if someone's inclined to put in an offer in the $260k range, $10k is in the "counter-offer" range. I doubt that someone looking at $250k is going to rule my place out sight unseen.

and yes, there are plenty of turnkey rental places on the Cape that I could purchase. those are actually pricier than these condos that are on the market right now. my thought with that is that it's related to condo associations and owner-occupied requirements for loans. for a $60k note, that doesn't really impact me one way or the other.

and again, there wouldn't be a daily commute......

[Deleted]

Just thinking of the weekend commute at 3-4 hours each way.  Can get onerous when you are doing it every weekend!

Is there any area on the cape that you like that would lend itself to allowing you to be employed there?  Even if at 3/4 your current salary, it sounds like it would be doable at those prices

And wow - i just went to look at prices in some of the areas (not where I used to go, but beach front in other areas of the cape).  And shoot - 100K for 1/1 cottage on the beach seems phenomenal!!!  Look at MLS#21208225-251  I'm wondering if there are land leases or other hidden costs because the prices seem way lower than they used to be.

How does what you are paying on mortgage now compare to renting a room(s) in an area close to work?  With cape prices like that I'd the condo at a fast sale price & scoop up a cottage or two quick!!

[chiver78]

Rock It, I put in the base MLS listing # (w/o the -251) and found a nice little Dennis Port listing. I know, without digging into the listing further, that there are a bunch of communities in Dennis/Yarmouth that have land leases. yes, it looks great, but I'm not interested in a land lease. I do know that most of the listings I saw today weren't in land-lease areas. I'm just trying to figure out if any of them are worth my trouble to worry about.

[whoisjohngalt]

Chiver, I didn't read your whole post (since I can't give you useful RE advice), but wanted to say that I will be your new BFF if you do buy anything on Cape Cod

[Deleted]

Jun 9, 2013 20:44:50 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Chiver, I didn't read your whole post (since I can't give you useful RE advice), but wanted to say that I will be your new BFF if you do buy anything on Cape Cod

X 2

[chiver78]

Im putting the cart before the horse by thinking about my options *after* I sell my place? um, okay....thanks for your thoughts.

sent from my electronic distraction

[Malarky]

Jun 9, 2013 22:32:06 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Jun 9, 2013 20:44:50 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Chiver, I didn't read your whole post (since I can't give you useful RE advice), but wanted to say that I will be your new BFF if you do buy anything on Cape Cod

X 2

Count me in.    I love the Cape.  Getting there and back, not so much.

[973beachbum]

My parents grew up in the New Bedford area.  We have lived at the Jersy Shore for most of thirty years now.  (When did I get so old )    The area of the town I live in has almost a 50% year round occupancy.  Where my DD goes to school struggles to keep it over 10%.  Personally I LOVE the winter when we basically have the place to ourselves.  The traffic is almost nonexistant, and the ones who are on the road arent confused tourists who forgot how to drive or read street signs.    My property taxes are real low thanks to all the people who own homes they don't live in.  And I get to use the beaches when I know they won't be crowded. 

What I thought you meant when I first opened this thread was you wanted (after you sold you condo) to buy a home on the Cape and get a small rental near work. So you would live in the rental during the work week and the shore house on the weekends and vacations.  That is what SF does with his love shack. 

As far as crime you should check out the area police blotters to be sure, but in my area there basically is no crime except during the season.  And if we saw someone breaking into a neighbors home we would call the police.  The less full time residents in an area the more apt it is to have what crime it does.  The most common is stealing pipes from outdoor showers to recycle the metal.   I also have the keys to three homes for people who don't live in them full time.  If something comes up I can hlep or fix it.  My DD also has a decent amount of business mowing lawns.  So it is doable if you like the area.  You could try a shrt term rental first to see what the neighborhood is like.

Just my two cents.  Good luck!

[chiver78]

Jun 10, 2013 7:49:53 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

What I thought you meant when I first opened this thread was you wanted (after you sold you condo) to buy a home on the Cape and get a small rental near work. So you would live in the rental during the work week and the shore house on the weekends and vacations.  That is what SF does with his love shack. 

yup, that's what I am still thinking. what sort of place on the Cape is what I'm kicking ideas around now. I actually thought of SF when I started this thread, and got in touch with him on FB to pick his brain as well. the reason I'd look at condos is pretty much exactly what Tenn said, and the same reason I bought the townhouse I did last time around - that the place wouldn't be completely unattended during the week.

Malarky, Carl, and Lena - you are totally welcome to come on down when I get settled

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Jun 9, 2013 17:14:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Chiver-what ever you do, don't think out loud to family.

I was on the phone with my aged dad one time and thinking out loud about buying a second home in Florida so I could have a place to retire to.  What my dad heard was I was buying a home for he and my mom in Florida for them move into.  They told all their friends I was buying them a home.  

I had to let them down gently it wasn't gonna happen and they were stuck in Massachusetts.  

[Tennesseer]

Jun 10, 2013 20:04:45 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

Jun 9, 2013 17:14:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Chiver-what ever you do, don't think out loud to family.

I was on the phone with my aged dad one time and thinking out loud about buying a second home in Florida so I could have a place to retire to.  What my dad heard was I was buying a home for he and my mom in Florida for them move into.  They told all their friends I was buying them a home.  

I had to let them down gently it wasn't gonna happen and they were stuck in Massachusetts.  

. No disrespect intended.

They used to drive their RV to Florida ever winter. They were now too old to be driving that thing. I'm still a Massachusetts boy in heart and mind. If the only seasons there were late spring, summer and early fall, I'd move back....well....maybe.