Job related: What am I doing wrong?

[gooddecisions]

There are currently no new higher level management positions in my department, but my manager is very vocal about me being next in line for a promotion. My manager called me yesterday to tell me that her manager is actively recruiting some former peers for the open positions, which are not management. If they accept the position, he promised them leadership positions within 6 months. But, wait- there are no open leadership positions. That likely means a re-org of some sort and my manager may end up reporting to one of them, the other will get a team and I'll stay put. So, neither one of us are happy about that because she should be next in line for whatever might open up above her. She obviously only shared what she felt was appropriate to share with me, so I have no idea what else might be going on.

How would you react to this news?

[hoops902]

My first reaction would be that my manager has no earthly idea what is going on.  The idea that some people like you are "next" for a promotion, and that she "should be next in line" show what is likely a complete disconnect from how the company hires and promotes. 

Also leadership does not equal management.

Also people aren't always honest when recruiting (in terms of promising them leadership positions in 6 months)

Also promising leadership positions doesn't necessarily mean in your department.

[gooddecisions]

But, he shared with her his plans- she sketched it out for me. The tentative plans included a reorg for our department and where those new leadership positions would be created.

[gooddecisions]

I suspect her manager hadn't considered how his plan would affect employee satisfaction with his current internal team and was only thinking about how to get new talent in the door.

[gooddecisions]

Also, both my manager and I have actively recruited, interviewed, hired and promoted for our respective teams. I've been here 12 years. So, we're not totally clueless.

So, you would just shrug it off and continue business as usual?

[midjd]

You work from home, correct? Does your manager? What about the active recruits?

I wonder if it may have something to do with lack of "face time" in the office - but if everyone else also works remotely, that's not it.

[giramomma]

Why do you assume you are doing something wrong?

Our department re-org. If you look that the responsibilities I lost, in some respects I got demoted. It's not a reflection on me or my work. Rather, my department is frankly trying to better organize themselves so that they survive in the future. I'm just an unfortunate casualty of it.

Perhaps its a little different because I'm a gov't worker, and there are limits to how far I can advance. I only get three promotion opportunities during my 30 year career here. Pay/titles/etc aren't really accurate reflections of how I'm valued or how much work I actually do.

So, my reaction would be to wait and see. You don't really know anything. You know tentative plans. My department had tentative re-org plans for like 5 years. You don't know what's happening for sure. If you don't want to take the risk to stick it out, then look for a new job ASAP. If you are willing to stick it out for a bit, put a time limit on it to re-evaluate your work situation and then look for a new job. Or, if the positives of your work outweigh the negatives of the re-org, then stay.

[hoops902]

::But, he shared with her his plans- she sketched it out for me. The tentative plans included a reorg for our department and where those new leadership positions would be created.::

Ok, this isn't how your first post came across to me.  It sounded like you were trying to figure out how it would work and came up with what you thought was the most likely scenario.

::I suspect her manager hadn't considered how his plan would affect employee satisfaction with his current internal team and was only thinking about how to get new talent in the door.::

Probably.  But you can't promote people just because it would make them happy.  You have to put people into positions you think they're suited to.

::Also, both my manager and I have actively recruited, interviewed, hired and promoted for our respective teams. I've been here 12 years. So, we're not totally clueless. ::

The impression your first post gave was essentially "we're next in line to move up".  That does sound a bit clueless in the way I read it.  As if bringing others in is somehow unfair because they are taking the spots you guys "should get".

::So, you would just shrug it off and continue business as usual?::

Well since the tentative plans were laid out apparently, I'd be asking about how I fit into those plans now that I know they exist and aren't just me surmising how things would probably work out.

[gooddecisions]

The entire department works from home- all levels. We are geographically dispersed across the country and around the world, so there is no central office.

[Deleted]

I'd be asking about how I fit into those plans now that I know they exist

I love that wording.

[swasat]

I thought on the same lines as MidJD. That your working from home may have a part in it. Not for your manager, but for her manager maybe.

But if your company does not mined telecommuting at all even for managemenet positions then that theory might not hold ground.

I would just sit back and watch. There is nothing that you can do. And if, after the reorg, you are dissatisfied then look somewhere else. Thats what I would do. See where the reorg takes me and then decide if I want to stay put or look elsewhere.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2013 8:56:41 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Why do you assume you are doing something wrong?

Our department re-org. If you look that the responsibilities I lost, in some respects I got demoted. It's not a reflection on me or my work. Rather, my department is frankly trying to better organize themselves so that they survive in the future. I'm just an unfortunate casualty of it.

Perhaps its a little different because I'm a gov't worker, and there are limits to how far I can advance. I only get three promotion opportunities during my 30 year career here. Pay/titles/etc aren't really accurate reflections of how I'm valued or how much work I actually do.

Wow! Someone has you snowed but good.

[Deleted]

I think upper management is putting in its own team.

If you want to climb the corporate ladder it may be time to look for something else. But if you like your job continue doing what you're doing.

[gooddecisions]

I do like my job and do not necessarily want to leave, but I'm frustrated if I cannot reach my career goals at this company. It's been 5 years since my last promotion, so maybe I'm not being proactive enough. I appreciate that my manager is vocal about me during these meetings. My company prides itself on hiring and retaining top talent, but there have been a handful of people (the open positions) who have left this year. I suspect my two-level up manager is under pressure to bring in top talent and the talent he knows from his former company wouldn't necessarily leave their current company for an "individual contributor" type role.

[busymom]

I worked at more than one company that often "dangled carrots" in front of people to keep them with the company.  Implied future promotions didn't happen.  After waiting for awhile, people would leave & find their promotions at a different company.

Hoping they're not making empty promises to you, but keep your options open.  Maybe dust off your resume, & just casually see what other opportunities there are in your area.

[gooddecisions]

May 15, 2013 10:07:22 GMT -5 busymom said:

I worked at more than one company that often "dangled carrots" in front of people to keep them with the company.  Implied future promotions didn't happen.  After waiting for awhile, people would leave & find their promotions at a different company.

Hoping they're not making empty promises to you, but keep your options open.  Maybe dust off your resume, & just casually see what other opportunities there are in your area.

You are right. Stupid company politics- it doesn't have to be that way. My resume stays updated and since I'm used to doing the interviewing, I suppose if I happen to get one- I would go into it pretty confident and excited. It would be exciting to make more money.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2013 9:40:00 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

I do like my job and do not necessarily want to leave, but I'm frustrated if I cannot reach my career goals at this company. It's been 5 years since my last promotion, so maybe I'm not being proactive enough. I appreciate that my manager is vocal about me during these meetings. My company prides itself on hiring and retaining top talent, but there have been a handful of people (the open positions) who have left this year. I suspect my two-level up manager is under pressure to bring in top talent and the talent he knows from his former company wouldn't necessarily leave their current company for an "individual contributor" type role.

Gooddecisions,

I've been in your spot and I'm telling you that you either need to move on or accept the fact that you're where you're going to stay and find happiness there. In my situation I was recruited to take over my boss' job because he wanted to retire and come back part time. We got along great and actually became good friends. But my boss' boss was trying to climb the government ladder and didn't want to make waves. When my boss retired his boss didn't fill the spot, just let me swing without help...and we were growing and getting more and more responsibility. I was working 65+ hour weeks...in a government job. He finally moved someone in who had no experience in the field but was someone he trusted. It was really an awful situation as she was a control freak and questioned every little decision I made would re-write my staff reports a few times and then wind up with something pretty close to what I originally wrote.

I don't know in hindsight that I could have done anything different. He didn't get the top job (as I knew he wouldn't). Although he was very, very smart, he was a terrible manager. As far as I could tell I think our agency CEO told all of his direct recruits that they would become his replacement...and of course the Agency Board of Directors recruited someone outside.

It's the way the game is played. You either play the game and move on or find happiness where you are. And while I never got the promotion I was promised (I got passed over again) I still had a really cool job, learned a lot and later appreciated not having to work 60+ hours a week!

[hoops902]

::I worked at more than one company that often "dangled carrots" in front of people to keep them with the company. Implied future promotions didn't happen. After waiting for awhile, people would leave & find their promotions at a different company.::

Depending how it is presented I think there's a difference between the company "dangling carrots" and just your boss deciding that you're next in line.  In this case it really just sounds like gd's direct manager is completely out of touch with the company philosophy.  It also sounds like she has no real power to make the things happen she's telling people.  Saying "you're next in line" is kind of meaningless if you don't actually get to choose who gets promoted.

[gooddecisions]

Hoops, I think you may be taking my words a little too literally. The conversation was more around if there is an open leadership position, I've earned it and should be the one who fills it before anyone brought in externally. We have a talent planning system that tags people as well and all leaders have to agree to the rankings and career pathing. You do realize that not all companies have the same culture as the company you work for?

[mrsdutt]

May 15, 2013 8:45:01 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

I suspect her manager hadn't considered how his plan would affect employee satisfaction with his current internal team and was only thinking about how to get new talent in the door.

New talent, at a lower cost to the company.

[souldoubt]

I suspect your manager's manager may not care about what it does to the current team.  It's politics in the work place and it wouldn't be the first time someone tried to get "their" people into a company.  I think Home Bonny gave some good advice about accepting it or moving on.  I'm not saying there's no chance you get promoted but unless your manager's manager is the one who can promote you and is telling you that's what he/she wants to do what your manager says and wants may fall on deaf ears.  Your manager may be telling you what you want to hear because that person doesn't want you to leave because of how much easier you make their job.  Every company does that because realistically there's only so many management or supervisor level positions and you don't want to train someone new every few years if possible so you give them a little bump in pay, maybe a title change so on to keep them happy enough to stick around for a bit. 

[formerroomate99]

May 15, 2013 10:32:38 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

Hoops, I think you may be taking my words a little too literally. The conversation was more around if there is an open leadership position, I've earned it and should be the one who fills it before anyone brought in externally. We have a talent planning system that tags people as well and all leaders have to agree to the rankings and career pathing. You do realize that not all companies have the same culture as the company you work for?

One thing I've learned working in the corporate world is to take any promises a manager makes with a grain of salt.  They often don't have much control over raises and promotions and are not above lying to employees to keep morale up.  It is the way it is.  'Don't count your chickens' and so fourth.  Often, job hopping is the only effective way to get ahead. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

The conversation was more around if there is an open leadership position, I've earned it and should be the one who fills it before anyone brought in externally

I doubt your manager has any real control over this.  DH's company likes to talk about promotion from within but the people that control those strings are not his immediate supervisors.  They can put a good word in for him but at the end of the day it's HR and corporate that gets to decide who gets the job.

[Deleted]

My policy has always been the following Haitian saying: St Thomas mwen ye, Le mwen a we ma kwe.

Translation: I am St Thomas, when I see I will believe.

Managers are pretty good at blowing smoke up your ass to keep company morale up or get you to stay onboard/motivated.

I follow the money: if I am that good to you I want to see it on my annual reviews/raises or promotions. I have a 5 year plan for my company because it is beneficial for me (so they can pay for part of my MBA) then I am fully ready and willing to job hop.

[gooddecisions]

May 15, 2013 10:46:05 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

I suspect your manager's manager may not care about what it does to the current team.  It's politics in the work place and it wouldn't be the first time someone tried to get "their" people into a company.  I think Home Bonny gave some good advice about accepting it or moving on.  I'm not saying there's no chance you get promoted but unless your manager's manager is the one who can promote you and is telling you that's what he/she wants to do what your manager says and wants may fall on deaf ears.  Your manager may be telling you what you want to hear because that person doesn't want you to leave because of how much easier you make their job.  Every company does that because realistically there's only so many management or supervisor level positions and you don't want to train someone new every few years if possible so you give them a little bump in pay, maybe a title change so on to keep them happy enough to stick around for a bit. 

Yeah, I know the drill. But I have never lied or tried to manipulate my direct reports that way. My manager is great and her manager is great. I didn't ask a tough question that needed to be addressed. The information was volunteered. Everyone is probably over-sharing and this probably could have happened (if it happens) without me or her knowing any of it.

I recall having a conversation with my two-level up manager several months ago about where I wanted to be. He had some ideas and started talking about other leaders (with no direct reports) in the department. The most talented and well-respected employee in my department's name came up and my two-level up manager said he didn't have an interest in managing a team. I thought that was odd but didn't think much about it. Two months later, an announcement comes out that said employee is leaving the company to manage a large department at another company. So, I am starting to wonder if my two-level up manager lacks the vision and ability to grow internal talent.

[souldoubt]

No doubt you know the drill but knowing something and doing something about it are two different things.  You've been there 12 years and if the prize was a certain managerial position only you would know if hints that you will eventually get there have kept you around.  Conversations are just words and if nothing is coming from them then they're basically meaningless.  The information whether it's casually mentioned, volunteered or discuss during your review keeps you interested but it's all about the end result because hopes and dreams don't pay the bills.    

I'm not saying this to be mean it's just stuff I've thought about recently because of my situation.  I've been at my job now for 6.5 years and after promotions and raises I'm at a point where going forward I may only see slight raises.  Meanwhile the kicker is that my job has me seeing compensation around the firm and I see that other departments are rewarded more.  If I didn't see that info maybe I wouldn't care as much but I do so I can either turn a blind eye or after this year's review period I need to have an exit plan.  I'm more and more thinking that I need to make a lateral move (mentioned here and by people I talk to in real life) to a new company where I will get a bump in pay for doing the same thing.  I said that last year and yet I didn't have the discussion so it's **** or get off the pot time. 

[Clifford]

If you feel you are worth a promotion but aren't getting one, look outside.  Interview and get an offer. 

Then tell your current company that you have a job offer you are thinking of taking because there are no ways to advance in your current company.  They can then counter or let you go (to your new job).

Either way, you move up.

[hoops902]

::They often don't have much control over raises and promotions and are not above lying to employees to keep morale up.::

I think often they aren't lying, they just 1.  Don't have the power they presume they have.  2.  Are expressing their feelings rather than making a guarantee.

If I tell someone "You're doing great, you should definitely be the next supervisor when a position opens up"...that's not the same as "I promise I will not hire anyone or interview anyone for an open supervisor position and I will just give it to you no questiosn asked"...assuming I even have that power.


::You do realize that not all companies have the same culture as the company you work for?::

I do (even though yours seems rather similar to mine).  YOU do realize that your own company doesn't have the culture you and your manager presume it does though right?  The 2 of you seem to think you've got "dibs" on the next leadership position based on the fact you already work there...clearly you don't. 


::The most talented and well-respected employee in my department's name came up and my two-level up manager said he didn't have an interest in managing a team. I thought that was odd but didn't think much about it. Two months later, an announcement comes out that said employee is leaving the company to manage a large department at another company.::

Eh, hard to know without talking to them directly.  I get asked a lot about what kinds of opportunities I'd like to pursue within my company.  I lie a lot.  Most of the time it's about whether I'd be interested in doing Project Manager work.  The answer is always "no, project management work doesn't really interest me".  95% of that is because the projet managment system here sucks and I'd want to stab myself in the head if I ever had to do that.  At another company though, I might be interested.  But it's hard to say "yes I'm interested in project manager work" and then turn down offers to be a project manager.

[hoops902]

::The information was volunteered. Everyone is probably over-sharing and this probably could have happened (if it happens) without me or her knowing any of it.::

Also keep in mind there's some chance that either your boss's boss relayed inaccurate information, or that your boss got accurate information but misinterpreted some of it and relayed something not completely correct.

The reality though is that it seems like your boss has little/no power over you being promoted.  So anything they say on the matter might not be worth much.

[formerroomate99]

Honestly, if getting an outside offer is the only way to move up, then you're probably better off just jumping ship, unless you get a bad vibe from the new company.  A lot of companies just don't do much promoting from within, and if your company is like this and you won't be happy unless youre getting promotions, there isn't much point in sticking around.