I'm not Catholic, but Pope Francis impressed and inspired me

[milee]

His humble, loving act of washing and kissing the feet of prisoners (including women and Muslims) is the closest to Jesus that I've seen a church official act in well, ever.  Add that to the fact that he's eschewing the glitz and glitter and living simpy, and he's clearly setting a tone that focuses on mission, not money.

www.cnn.com/2013/03/28/world/europe/vatican-pope

Is this a person who can bring people back to valuing organized religion and believing that the church is about teaching God's will and not just protecting the institution?


PS - I've always thought that if the Catholic church would respond differently to the ongoing sex abuse scandals, they could actually end up revitalizing the church.  Instead of continuing to deny and circle the wagons to protect church money and officials, they should take the opposite tack.  Give freely and lovingly to victims, make sure their therapy and needs are covered.  Sell the gold and art.  Maybe even sell the buildings.  Tell the people that people are more important than things.  If they have to, hold their services in a public park for a while.  I think not only would new members be drawn in, but the existing members would feel proud and the church would be stronger than ever - spiritually and monetarily. 

[swamp]

I've always thought that if the Catholic church would respond differently to the ongoing sex abuse scandals, they could actually end up revitalizing the church. Instead of continuing to deny and circle the wagons to protect church money and officials, they should take the opposite tack. Give freely and lovingly to victims, make sure their therapy and needs are covered. Sell the gold and art. Maybe even sell the buildings. Tell the people that people are more important than things. If they have to, hold their services in a public park for a while. I think not only would new members be drawn in, but the existing members would feel proud and the church would be stronger than ever - spiritually and monetarily. 

<br><br> <img alt=" " src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif" width="41" height="46" text="">

[alabamagal]

I grew up Catholic, now different denomination.

I also think they need to change their views on women in church, contraception, marriage of priests and gays.

[mrsdutt]

Mar 29, 2013 12:05:02 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

I grew up Catholic, now different denomination.

I also think they need to change their views on women in church, contraception, marriage of priests and gays.

It would be nice if all churches changed and grew.  Sometimes I think views have been manufactured by man, rather than they be the views of God.  I hope this pope is truly humble.  Time will tell.  I'm Catholic, but I will wait to see the results.

Now Mother Teresa.  There's a lady to look up to.

[Phoenix84]

"PS - I've always thought that if the Catholic church would respond differently to the ongoing sex abuse scandals, they could actually end up revitalizing the church.  Instead of continuing to deny and circle the wagons to protect church money and officials, they should take the opposite tack.  Give freely and lovingly to victims, make sure their therapy and needs are covered.  Sell the gold and art.  Maybe even sell the buildings.  Tell the people that people are more important than things.  If they have to, hold their services in a public park for a while.  I think not only would new members be drawn in, but the existing members would feel proud and the church would be stronger than ever - spiritually and monetarily."

I agree for the most part.  I think they should openly acknowledge the problem and work for the victems.  I'm not sure about selling all their buildings and art, especially since some of it is very historic, but I do think they should become less attached to things and money and focused more on the victems.

I'm not catholic, but I do respect a lot of the chairity the catholic church does.  And I think the vast majority of priests are good men who work for the betterment of their followers. 

[Phoenix84]

"I also think they need to change their views on women in church, contraception, marriage of priests and gays."

Marriage of priests I think is a distant "maybe."  The rest I don't see happening. 

[Deleted]

Mar 29, 2013 11:48:01 GMT -5 milee said:

Is this a person who can bring people back to valuing organized religion and believing that the church is about teaching God's will and not just protecting the institution?

I grew up in pre-Vatican 2 Roman Catholicism and will be in church tonight (Good Friday, chalice-bearer), tomorrow (Easter Vigil, chalice-bearer and lay reader) and Sunday AM (DH is doing coffee hour after the service). It just won't be a Roman Catholic church. I observed this morning's vigil with a female deacon.

I am also impressed with Pope Francis- he's a breath of fresh air- but some of the things that are important to me will not chnage in the Roman Catholic church in my lifetime- or ever.

I have mixed feelings about selling all the glitz. Well, maybe they could sell some of it; I'm sure that plenty of good stuff is stored in places only the guys in the brocade get to enjoy it. I've spent more than my fair share of time marveling at the treasures stored in the cathedrals of Europe- reliquaries (jeweled silver and gold boxes or other forms, exquisitely worked, to contain bones or other fragments of a saint), monstrances (large ornate gold discs with a window in the middle to expose the consecrated bread), gilded candlesticks taller than the average human. They're works of art and awe-inspiring and totally impractical. Should they be sold, maybe melted down or hidden away in the safe of a Saudi prince? Maybe not.[/quote]

[formerroomate99]

The Catholic church already has paid millions in resitution to vicitms of sex abuse and has had to sell some buildings as a result. 

Their biggest mistake was being behind the times on this issue, and in believing the psychologists who swore up and down they could cure these guys when they finally did decide to deal with it.  When somebody does soemthing this bad, protecting the innocent is a heck of a lot more important that forgiving the guilty and giving them second chances.   

[Tiny]

Mar 29, 2013 11:48:01 GMT -5 milee said:

His humble, loving act of washing and kissing the feet of prisoners (including women and Muslims) is the closest to Jesus that I've seen a church official act in well, ever.  Add that to the fact that he's eschewing the glitz and glitter and living simpy, and he's clearly setting a tone that focuses on mission, not money.

www.cnn.com/2013/03/28/world/europe/vatican-pope

Is this a person who can bring people back to valuing organized religion and believing that the church is about teaching God's will and not just protecting the institution?


PS - I've always thought that if the Catholic church would respond differently to the ongoing sex abuse scandals, they could actually end up revitalizing the church.  Instead of continuing to deny and circle the wagons to protect church money and officials, they should take the opposite tack.  Give freely and lovingly to victims, make sure their therapy and needs are covered.  Sell the gold and art.  Maybe even sell the buildings.  Tell the people that people are more important than things.  If they have to, hold their services in a public park for a while.  I think not only would new members be drawn in, but the existing members would feel proud and the church would be stronger than ever - spiritually and monetarily. 

The washing and kissing of feet thing is a yearly ritual. Nothing special there.  The 'special' part if would be that the Pope included women for the first time.       I'm sure the tradition is intended to show a Pope's humility (or more likely maybe to remind the Pope he SHOULD be humble).      

Yeah, including women in the tradition is nice and I guess it's a step forward of sorts (maybe now going forward women will always be included in the tradition) but it doesn't exactly inspire me to hope that the Church will change it's views/treatment of women anytime soon.  

[milee]

Mar 29, 2013 12:18:22 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Mar 29, 2013 12:05:02 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Sometimes I think views have been manufactured by man, rather than they be the views of God. 

Ya think?!?

[Robert not Bobby]

Well, I am Catholic…fallen by the wayside lately, but this Italian/Argentinian has impressed me so far.

 

Let’s hope that the whole Francis thing is more than just PR for a church in trouble.

 

Francis was a remarkable man.

 

We’ll see.

[mrsdutt]

Mar 29, 2013 15:31:24 GMT -5 milee said:

Mar 29, 2013 12:18:22 GMT -5 mrsdutt said:

Sometimes I think views have been manufactured by man, rather than they be the views of God. 

Ya think?!?

  I was going for sensitive!!!!!

[zibazinski]

Anyone ever see THE SHOES OF THE FISHERMAN with Anthony Quinn? Now THAT'S a pope!

[8 Bit WWBG]

The angle I thought was interesting was that he just did it, because that was what he believed was the right thing to do.  What he did was a break with, or a direct violation of various traditions and/or laws.  But he did it because he believed it was the right thing to do.

What interests me is: this man is the top of his organization.  What does one do when ones leader is a bit of a maverick and does what he wants, damn the traditions or laws?  What is the obligation of those sworn to follow the laws of the church, when the leader breaks them?

I imagine its a lot like the President dismissing his secret service protection.  Can they obey?  Can they disobey?  What to do?

[resolution]

Apparently he is driving his version of secret service protection crazy by randomly wading into crowds to bless people. He is the Pope, there is really nothing they can do about it. However nothing he is doing goes against the teaching of the church.

Historically some popes have engaged in open sin and remained pope. They are not considered immune from sin or infalliable in every situation.There is a strict criteria for what is considered an infalliable teaching and it has only been used a handful of times in the history of the church.

[Tiny]

How 'spontaneous' can the Pope be?  I'm pretty sure the group of people who's feet he washed weren't chosen 5 minutes before the ceremony...  I'm sure the decision to include women was made days (maybe even weeks)  before hand... and maybe even NOT by Pope Francis.   It is nice easy PR to make a minor change especially when it's not really a doctrine or dogma thing.    It sounds like people weren't really even aware of this 'tradition'. 

I'm sure the Pope has some say but anyone who's familiar with how a large enterprise works knows that it doesn't stop or turn on a dime and even when a new 'person in charge' comes along it takes many months to get change going.  

I'm sure the Pope has a gaggle or two or three of people coordinating and setting up and scheduling the things that he will be doing - probably months in advance.  I suspect he has very little say in how the Easter celebrations will play out.  It's all been planned.

I think of it kinda like a bride who's done all the planning, scheduling, etc and then a month before the wedding decides to sell all the plans/schedules/stuff that's already in place  'as is'  to another bride/wedding party.   The new bride can probably change a few things - but probably 95% of the wedding stuff will have to stay the same - there isn't time to change (or changes would be expensive and chaotic).

[mrsdutt]

Mar 30, 2013 8:16:31 GMT -5 resolution said:

Apparently he is driving his version of secret service protection crazy by randomly wading into crowds to bless people. He is the Pope, there is really nothing they can do about it. However nothing he is doing goes against the teaching of the church.

Historically some popes have engaged in open sin and remained pope. They are not considered immune from sin or infalliable in every situation.There is a strict criteria for what is considered an infalliable teaching and it has only been used a handful of times in the history of the church.

I believe the infalliable part is more in line with a pope's decisions.  Decisions are infalliable, not the pope himself.  I'm sure many past popes have found the afterlife not as rewarding as they hoped.

[mrsdutt]

Mar 30, 2013 8:16:31 GMT -5 resolution said: