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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2013 7:27:09 GMT -5
Do you think you can "teach" work ethics?
I have several members of my extended family that just don't get it. They let the government support them and have no qualms about it. It does not phase them that some people work and work and work to get by.
One of my cousin's sons got a job. He started getting ready to go home at 4:00. His boss said "we work until 5:00 here". Cousin said "not me". Cousin then went on to brag about it. WTF? That is just one of several examples.
Will they ever want to be productive members of society and support their families?
I did not go to my last family reunion because of these attitudes and neither did my siblings. A lot of them don't even bring a dish to pass or contribute to the food fund. They go there to eat and drink.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Mar 23, 2013 7:38:51 GMT -5
I think you have to learn it young for it to stick. Not that it's impossible to learn it when you're older. But this sounds like a group of people who take pride in how little they do. I'm wondering how long it'll be before your cousin loses their job. Then what will he brag about?
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Mar 23, 2013 8:18:34 GMT -5
i often think about The Little Red Hen. I don't see people like that developing a work habit until they are told no, that if they don't work for it, they won't get the end product, whatever that may be. Seems like there is always someone who thinks that's mean, so get it anyway, and they never learn, they just think you're the bad guy.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Mar 23, 2013 8:30:58 GMT -5
Wow, I was talking to a friend of mine who works in the high school system. Kids nowadays (not all) seem to live for NOW. Cell phones and texting. They don't talk about getting a good job or buying a nice house. No pride.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 23, 2013 8:39:57 GMT -5
Most kids have always lived for today. I don't think tats a new thing. Yes, I know us YM denizens had our lives planned upon kindergarten graduation, but we aren't normal.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Mar 23, 2013 8:44:10 GMT -5
Like I have said before, I am old. Mid 50s. back in the day, only rich kids went to college. But my classmates and I still talked about the day when we would get a good job and could buy a decent car or a nice house.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Mar 23, 2013 8:46:23 GMT -5
This may be a simplistic (is that a word?) observation on my part but I think kids who have a good work ethic learned by example. Or in my son's case - he feared the wrath of Mother if he didn't get to work on time and do his job - and this he learned at 16 working construction in the summer. Makes me proud to this day of his work ethic and he's pushing 47
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Mar 23, 2013 8:54:55 GMT -5
Both of my sons worked all through high school and college. We even had a gentleman call us after one son got married (called our house) looking for son to do some yard work for him since he had done a good job the year before.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 23, 2013 9:46:32 GMT -5
I don't think it's entirely learned. My parents both have really strong work ethics and I am the same. My brother however is like the cousin in the OP. He quit a job because he "doesn't like to be told what to do". Uhh. .. I hate to break it to you but that's kinda what comes along with having a job.
However if my parents didn't have one I don't think I would nessecarily have overcome that and tapped into my own work ethic. If you see every single person around you slacking off and getting away with it WHY would you want to work harder?
I know I know I've been told by many people I don't want to sink that low, I should hold myself to higher standards blah blah.
But WHY? When I make a mistake I get my ass handed to me, the tech that did nothing BUT screw up didn't have anything said to her because it wasn't unexpected.
Why should I work twice as hard to get in twice as much trouble if I make a mistake when I can play solitare and disappear for hours and have no one say one word to me?
Sometimes I think the cousin in the OP has the right mindset. Yet I can't bring myself to pull the plug and be like my brother. So there must be something intrinsic in my personality that forces me to keep going.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Mar 23, 2013 11:46:21 GMT -5
My parents were proud to be hard working and for us to be bad workers would have made them ashamed of us.
My first job was when I was 7 picking green beans with my mom and brothers. We would be assigned a row to pick and being kids only picked the ones we could see. Mom would go over our rows and point out the ones behind leaves and make us do our rows over. She explained if we didn't pick them all they wouldn't be picked and next time they would be bad so it was a waste to not pick them all. We did them over until she was satisfied with our work. We could have earned more going for the easy pickings but it wasn't right so not allowed. Next job was when I was 10 delivering early morning news papers with my brothers. Mom required us to put each paper where the homeowner wanted it so under mats, behind screen doors or whatever walking up to each house not throwing in the bushes and on time. She explained they were the customers and deserved to be treated right.
Dad was a pipe fitter and would brag to us how he was the best worker. He could do twice the work of the other workers. When we had projects at home like remodeling a house dad was flipping when I was 13 he would work long days of hard work without many breaks. My mom and brothers were expected to work just as hard all day everyday. I didn't have to work that summer because dad was union and someone had to stay home to wait for the phone call about a job for him. I was stuck in the house all summer doing cooking and cleaning but a 14 year old was staying with us that summer so I wasn't alone and I wasn't stuck except the hours the union was open. If you miss the phone call three times you go to the bottom of the out of work list so months more of being unemployed so it was important. Dad would work out of state sometimes living in bunk houses or a little trailer and worked all the overtime he could get. He would work even when he had pneumonia to provide for us. We kids only had to work to learn the value of a dollar.
Since parents took pride in being good workers it made sense that we would.
Some families teach the opposite to brag about how little they have to do. One little boy was born when his dad was injured and mom a housewife. His dad recovered but stayed on disability, his mom refused to get a job because she liked being home. They had two more babies while not doing a lick of work. Little boy was smart but one day his dad told us his boy was too smart to ever work. They would be ashamed of him if he took a job and couldn't figure out a way to avoid working for a living like his parents.
Some kids can learn from life if they aren't protected by parents or others. A man had a grown son living at home that didn't want to get up mornings and go to work. Dad would go drag him out of bed, going in several times each morning to get him up. It seemed to be dad's problem to make the boy get up until the day dad quit. He refused to be the alarm clock so if the boy didn't get up he was late for work, and would get fired. Dad allowed this until finally boy figured out you show up for work or get fired so alarm clock must be listened for if you want to hold a job. Boy probably only did the minimum but if dad hadn't quit babying him he might never have learned that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2013 12:45:25 GMT -5
"They would be ashamed of him if he took a job and couldn't figure out a way to avoid working for a living like his parents."
That is f'ed up! I cannot imagine being around people like that.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 23, 2013 12:57:17 GMT -5
I think life teaches it. Some people figure out how to get the results without working hard. It isn't easy to work hard just for the sake of some moral high ground.
Once the results stop coming, people are forced to change. If the relative in the OP got fired, and wasn't able to get more government handouts, and actually faced homelessness, he might change his mindset. But so long as there is a hand giving him what he would otherwise have to work for, why would he bother.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 23, 2013 17:28:45 GMT -5
That's just it. When poor choices and behavior gets rewarded and it does in our society, then you feel like a Sap for actually working or getting married before having a baby.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Mar 23, 2013 18:07:46 GMT -5
Yes, I think it can be learned. I flew by the seat of my pants at life in general until I hit my early 30's, for the most part, but I always had work ethics. I just needed more maturity when I started working in my teens. I had the part down about working hard and jumping in when things needed to be done and not stealing (like others did) but the social and co-worker interactions were raw as I'm the type that tells it like it is. I had to learn to bite my tongue more. I'm still learning that part and just quit working so I didn't lose my tongue one day. <---- See? It's still there. ETA: Back when I first started working lie detectors were used. I always passed but too many did not. I remember applying at Sun Bank and they said "We are just happy somebody finally passed the lie detector! If you are a good worker too - that's a bonus!" I'm not an angel but just told the truth about what I did do. Took a pen home, smoked weed... stuff like that.
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grits
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Post by grits on Mar 23, 2013 19:31:08 GMT -5
You can teach people to work, and to earn their own way but you can't force them to do it. Teaching, and forcing as not the same thing. My sister won't turn a lick of work period. She lives in filth, and claims to be unable to work. The reality is my mother made excuses for her, and spoiled her. Now, mother is dead.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 23, 2013 19:50:08 GMT -5
Sure you can. Work or starve, your choice. Bet some would start working. Of course you have the people who think they'll rob you as opposed to working. Bring it on. The day we have to support losers because we're scared they'll rob us if we don't is so sad that its unreal.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on Mar 24, 2013 14:01:20 GMT -5
I don't know where to place my kids. DS worked summers in HS then graduated and works full time for the same company so he doesn't exactly have to drive to move on but HE is working fulltime and living on his own and managing his own affairs. DD started working at McDonalds at 17 and now works fulltime and lives on her own (with BF) and manages her own affairs. So they are not saving and 401k'ing but they are working full time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2013 21:23:36 GMT -5
It can not be taught, but sometimes it can be bought.. In other words, you can get more out of someone with incentives sometimes that then looks like good work ethic.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Mar 24, 2013 21:40:17 GMT -5
i often think about The Little Red Hen. I don't see people like that developing a work habit until they are told no, that if they don't work for it, they won't get the end product, whatever that may be. Seems like there is always someone who thinks that's mean, so get it anyway, and they never learn, they just think you're the bad guy. I'm The Little Red Hen type. Oh how I loved that story as a kid. It took me many years to learn that being the best Little Red Hen around doesn't work too well in the long run, because if I do the detail work at my place of employment, the lazier types sit back, do the minimum necessary each day, and refuse to learn how to work certain types of edits and rejections in the new system. In my first marriage, I was definitely The Little Red Hen, and I ran around trying to fix everything. There was too much to fix, and DH#1 ( Not-So-DH, really ) didn't do much but sit back and criticize, which really hurt my feelings over and over. I had to tell him I wasn't his pick-up girl anymore ( as in picking up all of the pieces ). At this point in my life, I do what is best for me and for my second husband, although he has to do what he thinks is best for him. I don't pick up the pieces for my DD anymore. She has to manage her problems for herself, although we are always ready to give advice if she wants it. Sometimes she makes problems for herself. Tonight I had to email her that the head needs to rule the heart and not the other way around. That's all I can really say, but she needs to learn to think about things in social situations when meeting important people, and not just go by what she feels. Drives me nuts. Ah well. I survived and so will she.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Mar 24, 2013 23:47:02 GMT -5
Sure you can. Work or starve, your choice. Bet some would start working. Of course you have the people who think they'll rob you as opposed to working. Bring it on. The day we have to support losers because we're scared they'll rob us if we don't is so sad that its unreal. While it's fun to pick on those getting govt assistance, work ethic issues affect everyone. DH didn't learn much of one as a kid because he was smart and could "phone it in" pretty much through college. I know lots of smart people who could have gone the honors/AP route in school but preferred to slack. I've worked with tons of people who pay plenty of taxes but who also do the minimum (or slightly above) at their jobs. I know lots of people who have housekeepers/landscapers because they prefer to spend their time with their family/friends on the weekends. I wouldn't say they have "high work ethics" as their priority is having fun. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. Frankly, the amount of time I spend on YM every day is a testament to MY lack of work ethic. There are about 10,000 things I could be doing instead. And I could probably say the same for 90% of the posters here. Sometimes I get really tired of the YM sanctimony.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Mar 25, 2013 0:09:29 GMT -5
Yes, a work ethic can be learned. Problem is that once the "student" hits adulthood, work ethic is not easily taught.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 25, 2013 8:36:28 GMT -5
Govt assistance isn't a totally bad thing. Is just misused to reward bad behavior. When you can get thru life by popping out kid after kid, it's a bad thing. When you can eat yourself into oblivion and qualify for being disabled, it's a bad thing. When your choices result in you being eligible for public tit, it's a bad thing. Someone who gets cancer should be cared for if they lose all their assets. Someone who chooses to pop out a kid should never get money for doing so.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 8:52:15 GMT -5
can work ethic be learned?
i think parents can help in its development, but some kids will take to it, and others wont
ambition is the same way....some always striving for the next rung....others content to side idly by
but ambition and work ethic are the two traits along with raw intelligence that i want in every employee
everything else they NEED to know can be taught....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 9:37:36 GMT -5
It can not be taught, but sometimes it can be bought.. In other words, you can get more out of someone with incentives sometimes that then looks like good work ethic. But summatively: how is compensation related to work ethic - OR - How is work ethic compensated? And how does that shape people over the years of their working? Work ethic is only one factor and not even the most important. We live in a results driven society for the most part and the hardest worker in the world can not overcome skills that they don't have. They may have to work 50 hours to do 40 hours worth of work. While someone who is brilliant and can complete their work in 20 hours a week, but slack the other 20, will probably be reward for always being ontime. Neither is really a better employee than the other, but an outsider's perception of the two would be very different.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 10:31:08 GMT -5
I think the message about work ethic is in competition with a lot of other messages about work: get paid what you're worth, follow your dreams, your job is only good if it's your passion, your life is more important than your work, work should be satisfying, corporations (bosses) rig the game against you, etc. and those other messages tend to win out if you are uneducated or unskilled.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 25, 2013 10:34:09 GMT -5
Case in point, DS works for Coke. His productivity is way beyond his co-workers but his raise was only 1 per cent more than theirs and he is royally pissed. What do you think his reaction is going to be? Is he going to continue to work hard realizing it isn't going to be rewarded much more than those that don't? Is he gong to leave Coke? Is he going to leave the dept?
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Mar 25, 2013 11:19:04 GMT -5
I believe having a work ethic is internally motivated. Doing your best at something, always wanting to try/improve, staying busy, rising to challenges etc are all because of something inside a person. It's like any other personal quality like honesty or grit - you have it because you believe in it, not because of a paycheck.
I don't think the smarter guy has a good work ethic in this situation. He's doing what it takes to keep his job and nothing more. He's smart, and probably a bunch of other good things, but a hard worker? Nope, I wouldn't describe someone who works 50% of the time as someone with a work ethic. Think what the brilliant guy could accomplish if he applied himself more. Sought out challenges.
I'd say if the son lowered his standards because to the level of the rest of the workers that no, he doesn't have a good work ethic. If he kept them high and remained employed there for other (non-mentioned) reasons, I'd say he has a great work ethic. If he quit to work for someone who better rewarded his performance, I'd say he has a great work ethic.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 25, 2013 11:38:11 GMT -5
I'd say if the son lowered his standards because to the level of the rest of the workers that no, he doesn't have a good work ethic.
I can understand it though. Sometimes the reward of having people think you are a good little worker bee just isn't enough.
I've never done it but the idea has crossed my mind more than once.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 25, 2013 12:12:12 GMT -5
He has decided to leave the dept. he talked to his supervisor who said he didn't agree with what went down but I believe as does DS that its just talk. DS is going to go to another dept. I fear it will be no different but perhaps I'm wrong.
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