Is flying *really* safer than driving?

[DVM gone riding]

Mar 13, 2013 14:17:20 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but besides 9/11, I can't think of any major airplane crashing with everyone on board killed in my lifetime, in the U.S anyway.  It just doesn't happen.  I'm not talking about small bi planes, I'm talking about Boing 700 series. 

And yeah, Paul's friend is getting cocky.  I remember one of the pearls of wisdom my Dad told me when teaching me to drive.

"You can be right and still be dead."  A drunk driver, a fatigued driver, weather, things can go terribly wrong in a instant on the road even if you're doing everything right.  Basically he's implying every fatal car crash is the result of the driver of that particular vehicle, and that if everyone was as good of driver as him there would be no car crashes.  We all know that's not the case. 

Well since we are about the same age... there was the value jet crash in FL and the Alaska crash off the coast of CA coming back from Mexico. (I was about 14-16 when that happened and knew several people that knew people on board since it was returning to my home town area) There where several slide off the runway crashes killing several but not all. And then I think there was a firey crash in AK. I am sure we could do a quick search for american airplane crashes in the last 20 yrs. I think you would be surprised but those are the ones that stand out in my memory.

ETA: I knew it was a discount airline--sorry blue that was what value jet morphed into the crash was so bad they couldn't recover

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 13, 2013 13:21:52 GMT -5 swamp said:

No, I don't have control over those things, or those people- but I have control over my vehicle, and how I drive it. My car has never crashed- not even a fender bender. My car has never been hijacked and flown into a building. As far as I'm concerned, you may be right that statistically flying is safer than driving, but it's not safer than *MY* driving.

This guy is an idiot.

He may be a great driver.  The other dude who runs the stop sign, blows the red light, crosses over the center line while texting, or falls asleep at the wheel is the one you have to look out for.

I was driving home from work one day and it was snowing.  Not a blizzard by any means, but you had to slow down.  I was driving on a curve, and the dude in the other lane was going too fast, bit it on the downhill part of the curve and crossed over into my lane right in front of me.  I can't slam on the brakes because it's slippery and I'll start to fishtail.  I had standard so I downshifted.  He just missed hitting me head on, crossed over my lane, and kept going into the field next to me where he was up to his hood in snow.  I'm not sure what I could have done differently.  I was just lucky he didn't hit me.

You say he's an idiot, but then you go on to make his point. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 14, 2013 23:51:47 GMT -5 DVM gone riding said:

Mar 13, 2013 14:17:20 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but besides 9/11, I can't think of any major airplane crashing with everyone on board killed in my lifetime, in the U.S anyway.  It just doesn't happen.  I'm not talking about small bi planes, I'm talking about Boing 700 series. 

And yeah, Paul's friend is getting cocky.  I remember one of the pearls of wisdom my Dad told me when teaching me to drive.

"You can be right and still be dead."  A drunk driver, a fatigued driver, weather, things can go terribly wrong in a instant on the road even if you're doing everything right.  Basically he's implying every fatal car crash is the result of the driver of that particular vehicle, and that if everyone was as good of driver as him there would be no car crashes.  We all know that's not the case. 

Well since we are about the same age... there was the value jet crash in FL and the Alaska crash off the coast of CA coming back from Mexico. (I was about 14-16 when that happened and knew several people that knew people on board since it was returning to my home town area) There where several slide off the runway crashes killing several but not all. And then I think there was a firey crash in AK. I am sure we could do a quick search for american airplane crashes in the last 20 yrs. I think you would be surprised but those are the ones that stand out in my memory.

ETA: I knew it was a discount airline--sorry blue that was what value jet morphed into the crash was so bad they couldn't recover

ValueJet is now Spirit.

[zibazinski]

Well, we have to fly to Boston in April. Then this summer, Oregon and Wyoming. If its my time, it's my time. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

For the record, I don't buy the argument my friend is making. I do agree far more things can happen to you on the road. I agree flying is statistically safer. His argument is that while there are things that can go wrong on the road, you generally have more control over how you respond to them. It's a personal preference- he doesn't like the lack of control. To me, I don't like frisky TSA agents, and long wait times, delays and other bull crap. Generally speaking anywhere from 3 to 6 hours of any flight is time utterly wasted- add to flight time + four hours I'm willing to give up for a more pleasant life experience than security lines, and airplane food and you have the "this many hours or less and I drive" equation that I use.

So, if it's a 3 hour flight from Florida to Chicago, and it takes me an hour to get to the airport where I'm supposed to arrive two hours prior to my flight time- that's 6 hours. It's another hour to my place in Chicago- 7 hours now. Add four- 11 hours. It's an 17 hour drive, so I fly.

The same flight to Atlanta is an hour and a half- NO IDEA why it takes this long. The aforementioned three hours still applies- 4.5 hours. An hour to my Atlanta destination from the airport- 5.5 hours. Plus 4 = 9.5 hours. It's a 7 hour car trip-- I drive.

[zibazinski]

I drive if at all possible but long trips, it just isn't. Once DF retires, we are driving no matter what. In his TANK!

[swamp]

Mar 18, 2013 10:02:48 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 13, 2013 13:21:52 GMT -5 swamp said:

This guy is an idiot.

He may be a great driver.  The other dude who runs the stop sign, blows the red light, crosses over the center line while texting, or falls asleep at the wheel is the one you have to look out for.

I was driving home from work one day and it was snowing.  Not a blizzard by any means, but you had to slow down.  I was driving on a curve, and the dude in the other lane was going too fast, bit it on the downhill part of the curve and crossed over into my lane right in front of me.  I can't slam on the brakes because it's slippery and I'll start to fishtail.  I had standard so I downshifted.  He just missed hitting me head on, crossed over my lane, and kept going into the field next to me where he was up to his hood in snow.  I'm not sure what I could have done differently.  I was just lucky he didn't hit me.

You say he's an idiot, but then you go on to make his point. 

No, in this case, I avoided the accident, but I'm not sure how we didn't hit. we were so close I was waiting for the "crunch." 1 second difference and we would have smacked into each other, and it woudln't have mattered what evasive action I took.

[zibazinski]

Glad you're okay. Shit, that stuff is scary.

[formerroomate99]

Flying is unpleasant, no doubt about that.  I live 7 miles from an medium sized airport, but I still won't fly anywhere I could drive in 10 hours or less.  But I think the guy in the OP is kidding himself thinking he's in control on the road.  No matter how good a driver you are, you can't control the weather or the other drivers.

[Phoenix84]

I can understand the personal preference of control and wanting to avoid flying.  The original statement though was about what's "safer." 

[Phoenix84]

Another thing to consider is cost.  In this day and age, it may actually be CHEAPER to fly.  Which is crazy when you think about it.

But when it costs $40-$50 to fill up, and flights to some places can be as low as $90 or less, flying can be cheaper. 

[zibazinski]

It's cheaper if its just you. If you have to drag a family, it's big bucks and its getting more expensive all the time. We pay up the wazoo to be treated like criminals. 

[whoami]

Mar 18, 2013 10:04:50 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 14, 2013 23:51:47 GMT -5 DVM gone riding said:

Well since we are about the same age... there was the value jet crash in FL and the Alaska crash off the coast of CA coming back from Mexico. (I was about 14-16 when that happened and knew several people that knew people on board since it was returning to my home town area) There where several slide off the runway crashes killing several but not all. And then I think there was a firey crash in AK. I am sure we could do a quick search for american airplane crashes in the last 20 yrs. I think you would be surprised but those are the ones that stand out in my memory.

ETA: I knew it was a discount airline--sorry blue that was what value jet morphed into the crash was so bad they couldn't recover

ValueJet is now Spirit.

ValueJet is AirTran

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"You say he's an idiot, but then you go on to make his point.":::...

A very fair assessment: swamp adds merit to both points at once. The hubris of the other driver caused him to lose control. Swamp's mad skillz (that she'd not needed to have utilized in the first place) contributed towards her not getting hit. At the same time, had the ice caused the other car to take a slightly different trajectory, her evasive maneuvers might have been for naught.

Driving in Paul's friends car may very well be safer than driving in other cars. I bet Paul's friend does not perform a comprehensive diagnostic on every system in the car EVERY time he uses it. I bet he does not have the benefit of various control towers monitoring his driving path and ensuring he does not come remotely close to other cars.

What this thread shows is that Paul has friends who make boastful claims just like he does. 

[DVM gone riding]

in terms of cost a friend once explained it this way: Flying is additive and driving is divisional. So if two people that were going to the same place drive together and gas is $400 then it is $200/person but if they were flying and flying was only $200/person then together they spend $400 and you have to decide which is better. Add a third and its a no-brainer which is CHEAPER just might not be worth it still.

I had a coworker decide to drive about 1000mi rather then fly she said she "couldn't afford"  I said uhh it cheaper to fly you know to say nothing of a LOT faster!