School changes since Newton

[Angel!]

Has anyone seen changes in their schools since the Newtown shooting?

I found out last week that my kid's daycare has installed a new alarm system (a "bad guy in the building" alarm as DS described it) & have had all the kids run drills on what to do if they hear that alarm. 

[whoami]

We have had alarms and locked doors for years.  Pretty meaningless since its a matter of banging on the door and the kids (at the high school anyway) open it up.

[thyme4change]

They started locking the gate, so now you have to walk through the office to get into the school.  You were always suppose to, but now you have to.  Pretty meaningless if the guy just walks in and shoots the 5 people in the office, as the guy in Newtown did.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Not really.  DD is in 4K/jr. kindy and we got a couple of letters/messages.  Including one about a comment made by a teacher which may (or may not) have been overheard by students.  I don't really remember the details but thought it was odd they sent something out on it.  I have a vague recollection that a teacher was attending a funeral out of town shortly afterwards and it was in regards to that. 

DS is in dcp.  They did change the alarm system several months ago so that every family has a different code to get inside.  But that was well before Newtown. 

[Phoenix84]

Don't have kids, so I haven't been paying attention. 

[teen persuasion]

Since Newtown, no.  Lots of gradual changes since 9/11 or so, but probably in reaction to Columbine and other school shootings.

Now front doors are locked and you need to be buzzed in, lots of cameras, lock down drills....

[Phoenix84]

They've been doing active shooter stuff in schools since when I was in school.  I remember we had a codeword that the principle or someone would announce over the speaker system and the teachers would lock the doors and we'd stay away from the windows.  We ran drills a few times a year.  This was in middle school and high school back in the late 90's.  I was in seventh grade when the Columbine shooting happened. 

I think the code phrase was something along the lines of "would John Thomas come to the office please."  Or some name.  I guess there was no John Thomas in the school. 

[973beachbum]

Mar 11, 2013 15:48:40 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

They started locking the gate, so now you have to walk through the office to get into the school.  You were always suppose to, but now you have to.  Pretty meaningless if the guy just walks in and shoots the 5 people in the office, as the guy in Newtown did.

I'm pretty sure at Newtown they kept the door locked and didn't let him in at all and called the police as soon as the saw an armed man outside trying to get in.  He shot his way through a window and came in that way.

My DD's HS started a thing where they have a spot you have to stand on and buzz to be let in also.  it is right next to the 16 foot high wall of maybe 16 glass doors.

[chen35]

No, but I have noticed a change in the kids. A few weeks ago DSD8 drove by the rec center and there were a few ambulances outside. She said, "Maybe someone came in and shot some people." Like it was no big deal. I explained that things like that don't happen that often, and I'm sure someone just got hurt playing basketball. I wasn't really sure how to handle that one?

[milee]

There have been changes, but none of them will actually make the schools any safer, just inconvenience people who are following the rules.  Some of them make people feel safer but would actually potentially cause more casualties in a school shooter situation.

An example would be one of the elementary schools with a fairly large, open campus.  Dozens of buildings with no more than 3-4 classes in each building spread out over several acres, so no single doorway entrance that can be secured.  The school put fences between many of the buildings so that you can only enter and exit a building cluster at certain gate openings and then they put a 6' high chain link fence around the entire school with only two gates.  The parentls love their new, safe school.  I think those parents are idiots because if you take a minute to think about it, you'll realize that a 6' chain link fence wouldn't even significantly slow down most healthy wanna-be shooters, but it will make it almost impossible to evacuate elementary aged children.  You've just created a barrier that doesn't keep out potential shooters, but does confine all the kids in a small area from which they can't escape.  Not only that, but the fence surrounding the school with only 2 gates creates choke points where a shooter can easily pick off anybody trying to escape.  Dumb.  The school was probably safer with no fence at all.

But that's pretty typical of the dumb choices made by bureaucrats.

[Deleted]

We actually had a murder at our high school back in maybe 2001 or so.  It stunned this middle class community.  Although it wouldn't have prevented anything like what happened in Newtown, we have code yellows and code red drills.  A code yellow means that you lock the door and keep on teaching.  Code red means the kids hide with the lights off.

A lot of common sense strategy has developed.  For example, there are no code words.  The rationale is that if it is a student, he or she knows the code word.  A substitute might not.  So the principal simply says we are having a code red.  We don't evacuate for bomb threats; it may just be an attempt to get the students out into the open to make them easier victims.  We don't respond to fire alarms during a code red.  You never open the door even to a police officer or administrator (or anyone else) because they might have a gun to their head.  They don't need us to let them in; they all have keys.  A code red can never be announced as over with an announcement over the intercom; the police must enter the room and tell you that it's over.

For a few days after the murder, it was chaotic because the school tried to pass 2000+ students through a metal detector before entering.  (It was a stabbing.)  School started two hours late so that plan was scrapped.  Visitors do have to get their drivers' license scanned at the front desk.  The SROs (School Resource Officer is the euphemism for armed police officer placed inside the school) have their offices in sight of the lobby area although they spend more time in the halls than in there.

It's not fool-proof by any means, but I do feel as if our school is safe.  Does that mean an active shooter couldn't take a lot of us out?  Of course, they could . . . just like they could show up at my front door and start shooting.  But you can only prepare so much, and then you just have to live your life without looking over your shoulder.  I want students to be cautious, but not fearful. 

I will say one nice thing has come out of all this school violence.  Kids are being taught the importance of kindness towards others.  A lot of the violence is caused by students becoming alienated and isolated.  We try to teach that you don't have to make anyone your best friend, but you can be respectful and tolerant of their differences and in some cases disabilities.  I honestly think our kids are among the nicest around.  Many of them work as aides with the special education groups.  The kids are awesome as they plan stuff like Beauty Salon Day (they do hair, make-up, and manicures) and that sort of thing. 

It makes you really proud of young people today, which a lot of people have forgotten how to be. 

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Won't speak for the schools -- mostly because I think it is an ongoing process to keep current with safety and lockdown protocols.

But, DH and I had a rare weekend alone this past weekend and headed for the movie theater.  We saw Silver Linings Playbook.  We were at the end of a row, and as the movie started, a guy came and sat in front of us.  He was alone, had a large overcoat on that he never took off or unbuttoned, and seemed distracted throughout the movie.  I got a little freaked out, but decided I wasn't going to let fear of things I can't control, control me.  If I'd had more to go on, I might have reported him.  But, I'm glad I didn't. We like to stay and watch the credits, and apparently so does he, so when the lights came up, I got a good look at him.  He simply looked somewhat socially awkward but harmless -- you know, being at the movies alone on a Saturday night is not exactly what cool people do.  

[milee]

"Visitors do have to get their drivers' license scanned at the front desk. "

Yes, because that's definitely going to deter a shooter.  I can picture him now, "Oh, wait, I really should take a break from firing into this group of kindergarteners and stop by the office.  Hope they can get my license scanned quickly so I can get back to my shooting."

  Scanning visitor licenses is a good example of the measures that create huge amounts of hassle without improving safety in most situations.  It's well-intentioned, but useless.  IMHO, similar to the requirement that visitors wear special nametags/badges and that parents wear visible ID/badges.  Sounds like a great idea to make people wear ID so it's immediately obvious if an unauthorized person is on campus.  But in practice, I'm pretty sure that would be useless in a school shooting situation.  It's not like school personnel are using binoculars to spot people without badges from a distance and calling police, shooting them or erecting barriers, they're going up to them to ask what the unidentified person is doing there.  How exactly is that going to stop a school shooter?  It won't, it just means the person who goes up to ask is the first one shot.  And once the shooting starts, nobody needs to have badges to know there's a problem.  Useless.  But again, it takes huge amounts of staff time and inconveniences the hundreds of parents every single day. 

[zibazinski]

[swamp]

The school district I live in is facing insolvency in the next few years and are actively looking to merge with another school.

They are spending $100,000 on security upgrades for a school that may not be there in the next 3 years.

[973beachbum]

Mar 12, 2013 8:36:24 GMT -5 swamp said:

The school district I live in is facing insolvency in the next few years and are actively looking to merge with another school.

They are spending $100,000 on security upgrades for a school that may not be there in the next 3 years.

If the security upgrades actually made the students safer, I might still be okay paying for them.  It is all the "make changes to make people feel the kids are safer, even though we all know it won't actually make them a damn bit safer in reality" that pisses me off as a tax payer.

[Deleted]

We have always needed to be buzzed in to the school, but before they would just ring you in, no questions asked. Now they ask you to "state your name and your business" before they open the doors.

[swamp]

Mar 12, 2013 8:48:18 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Mar 12, 2013 8:36:24 GMT -5 swamp said:

The school district I live in is facing insolvency in the next few years and are actively looking to merge with another school.

They are spending $100,000 on security upgrades for a school that may not be there in the next 3 years.

If the security upgrades actually made the students safer, I might still be okay paying for them.  It is all the "make changes to make people feel the kids are safer, even though we all know it won't actually make them a damn bit safer in reality" that pisses me off as a tax payer.

Lock the doors, have a camera outside, and be buzzed in. Despite the fact that the school is a freakin' fishbowl. 

[Deleted]

Aren't all schools? We need to fill in all the windows!!!

[Angel!]

Mar 12, 2013 9:10:12 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

Aren't all schools? We need to fill in all the windows!!!

I know they did this at my old HS after Columbine, placed some sort of tint over all the windows so you couldn't see in.  We were only a few miles away from Columbine so they made a lot of changes.  I remember going back to visit & all the doors were locked except the main entrance & all the windows were dark.  It was creepy.  I will have to ask my brother if they had made more changes than that because he was still in HS at the time.

My kids daycare has always had a code & only a single entrance.  So the only thing that has changed is the additional alarm.  DD's class goes outside if they hear the alarm as they have a door in the class to go outside.  DS's class is the first class you pass when you walk in & they don't have a door outside.  They are supposed to go sit in the farthest corner from the door.  It kind of bothers me that the best plan for his class is to go sit in the corner, but I suppose there aren't a lot of options   

I do remember once in elementary school we got put on lock-down because apparently there was some crazy guy in the area.  I don't really remember the details, but I do know we ended up being held at school for several hours after the school day ended.

[genericname]

I use an in-home daycare in a quiet, unassuming, middle-class neighborhood. She keeps the doors unlocked so that parents can walk in at any time. We've never discussed safety drills for active shooters. I don't think one of the parents is going to go postal picking up their kid, but who knows what is going to happen? All of her kids are younger than first grade, so it would be hard to get a group of 2-4 year olds to understand what was going on, anyway. Maybe we just live in blissful small town ignorance?

[midjd]

Scanning visitor licenses is a good example of the measures that create huge amounts of hassle without improving safety in most situations. It's well-intentioned, but useless.

So what would be a better solution?

I do think that if a person is truly determined to go into a school and kill people, not much in the way of security measures (short of repurposing old prisons as schools) will stop him. But the schools are in a bad position, too - they're blamed for anything that may happen and blamed for the preventive measures they take that may or may not be effective.

At one time I thought anti-bullying programs could help, but that was when most of these incidents were perpetrated by disgruntled students.  That doesn't appear to be the case anymore.

[milee]

Mar 12, 2013 11:42:31 GMT -5 midjd said:

Scanning visitor licenses is a good example of the measures that create huge amounts of hassle without improving safety in most situations. It's well-intentioned, but useless.

So what would be a better solution?

Well, the first solution is for people to get real and face the facts.  The facts are that it's still extremely, extremely rare to have a school shooting.  In Florida, my guess is that statistically, kids are more likely to be eaten by an alligator than shot in school. 

People are going to need to realize that for schools that are being built now, there may be design changes that can be made at a reasonable cost that make schools more secure, but there may not.  Will need to be looked at on an individual basis.  But for many older schools, they are not secure and can't be made secure for any reasonable price and that's just the way it is. 

As horrible as school shootings are, it's not a reasonable expectation to prevent all of them.

[swamp]

Mar 12, 2013 11:52:38 GMT -5 milee said:

Mar 12, 2013 11:42:31 GMT -5 midjd said:

So what would be a better solution?

Well, the first solution is for people to get real and face the facts.  The facts are that it's still extremely, extremely rare to have a school shooting.  In Florida, my guess is that statistically, kids are more likely to be eaten by an alligator than shot in school. 

People are going to need to realize that for schools that are being built now, there may be design changes that can be made at a reasonable cost that make schools more secure, but there may not.  Will need to be looked at on an individual basis.  But for many older schools, they are not secure and can't be made secure for any reasonable price and that's just the way it is. 

As horrible as school shootings are, it's not a reasonable expectation to prevent all of them.

But if you say that, you're accused of not thinking of the children.

This same school had an incident about 15 years ago.  Psycho step dad came and got his 10 year old step daughter out of school, took her to his hunting cabin and raped her, because he was mad at mom for calling the cops on him.  

No amount of security would have stopped this because he was on the list of approved people to pick the kid up at school. 

I worry more about stuff like psycho step dad than some random shooter. 

[973beachbum]

Mar 12, 2013 11:52:38 GMT -5 milee said:

Mar 12, 2013 11:42:31 GMT -5 midjd said:

So what would be a better solution?

Well, the first solution is for people to get real and face the facts.  The facts are that it's still extremely, extremely rare to have a school shooting.  In Florida, my guess is that statistically, kids are more likely to be eaten by an alligator than shot in school. 

People are going to need to realize that for schools that are being built now, there may be design changes that can be made at a reasonable cost that make schools more secure, but there may not.  Will need to be looked at on an individual basis.  But for many older schools, they are not secure and can't be made secure for any reasonable price and that's just the way it is. 

As horrible as school shootings are, it's not a reasonable expectation to prevent all of them.

We could make the schools as secure as Fort Knox and I don't think it would make an actual difference. Okay they are safe while they are locked in the building. But unless I am confused at some point they have to open the doors and let the kids out, right?

Obviously I don't think violence of any kind is a good thing.  I just think these type of false security leads people to stop thinking about the bigger picture.  Like at my DD's HS they are WAY more likely to be run over by a car driven by someone who doesn't have a clue where they are going and doesn't come from a place where stop signs mean anything.

[justme]

What's confused me about it is that a lot of the schools are talking about implementing the same procedures and security that Newton had. Well, all that obviously did no good (though one could argue that it would have been worse without that) so spending a ton of money to "stop Newton from happening here" doesn't make sense.

I think security measures to prevent something similar to what Swamp mentioned is what's needed, if not already implemented. Obviously that guy was on the approved list, but I would think checking IDs is more to make sure kids don't get taken by the wrong person? I would think instances where only one child was negatively effected would be way higher than mass shootings. Not to mention I think there's very little one can do to prevent someone who has decided to take out as many people as they can...so it's all just a mental exercise, but parents would rather tell themselves "my kid's safer because the school installed cameras" then fully face the fact that cameras won't stop a bullet from hitting their kid.