whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 5, 2013 18:29:25 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 5, 2013 18:36:36 GMT -5
How about the first part of the article's title: What are a Surrogate's Rights?
I read this yesterday. Very complicated issue.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Mar 5, 2013 18:41:59 GMT -5
Yeah - talk about a clusterfuck of disastrous proportions.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 5, 2013 18:44:03 GMT -5
I wonder if the parents will want to put the baby for adoption, if that's even an option.
I am one of those women who loved being pregnant and if I was younger, I would have loved being a surrogate. But I keep hearing women saying that they are reluctant to do it for reasons just like this one. Very sad
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 5, 2013 18:46:09 GMT -5
I try not to judge- but fighting so hard to keep the baby but then giving it up for adoption sits really, really wrong with me.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 5, 2013 18:50:28 GMT -5
Are you talking about the surrogate or the parents that are now carrying for a very sick infant?
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 5, 2013 19:23:29 GMT -5
I try not to judge- but fighting so hard to keep the baby but then giving it up for adoption sits really, really wrong with me. I agree. The serrogate fought so hard and even moved halfway across the country only to put the child in the system to be adopted. I also didn't get the I won't do it for $10K but if it was $15K the abortion is okay, but without the money it was a moral absolute.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 5, 2013 19:43:51 GMT -5
I mean the surrogate. She knew the baby wouldnt be able to live a "normal" life and would need significant care for her whole life. I get that the disabilities were more severe than expected, but I'm sure the surrogate knew that was a possibility but still insisted on continuing the pregnancy.
According to the article she also agreed to terminate in this circumstance before getting pregnant, so I don't believe that she was adamantly opposed to abortion from day one.
I have no idea what I would do in this situation.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 5, 2013 19:44:45 GMT -5
The natural parents don't have the baby.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 5, 2013 19:52:47 GMT -5
Oh, I thought "adoptive parents" meant the couple who originally hired the surrogate. Well, unlike Rae, I will judge - she kept the baby and gave it up for adoption, so now someone else can be stuck with care I also wonder if she kept the $22K she got for being a surrogate....
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 5, 2013 20:01:45 GMT -5
Oh, I thought "adoptive parents" meant the couple who originally hired the surrogate. Well, unlike Rae, I will judge - she kept the baby and gave it up for adoption, so now someone else can be stuck with care I also wonder if she kept the $22K she got for being a surrogate.... I struggle wtih this. For anyone that doesn't know this about me ( ) I am morally opposed to abortion. If I were the one carrying the baby, there is no way I would every abort. Having said that, I would not sign a contract stating that I would abort.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 5, 2013 20:05:52 GMT -5
"It was an unfortunate time for both sides to discover such a wide chasm between their philosophical and ethical beliefs, according to at least one surrogacy expert."
umm....what? unfortunate time? shame on all involved that they didn't discuss their beliefs ahead of time in a "what if?" discussion! that said, if she signed a contract that she would abort if the biological parents wished, then she should have aborted. just my two cents.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 5, 2013 20:09:05 GMT -5
"It was an unfortunate time for both sides to discover such a wide chasm between their philosophical and ethical beliefs, according to at least one surrogacy expert." umm....what? unfortunate time? shame on all involved that they didn't discuss their beliefs ahead of time in a "what if?" discussion! that said, if she signed a contract that she would abort if the biological parents wished, then she should have aborted. just my two cents. I didn't read the story..did it say if any of this was really discussed? I am sensing this woman isn't the highest educated (yes, I'm judging!) so if it was up to her to read the fine print I'm guessing she didn't. But if an attorney went over all details with her, then she was 100% wrong to sign it. I'm guessing she saw easy money and figured the odds of anything happening to the baby were slim. Let's face it, no one gets pregnant thinking that something would be wrong to their baby....
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 5, 2013 20:14:55 GMT -5
Like I said, I seriously considered being a surrogate (until I found out that I was too old) - if I were to do it - I would have felt that couple who were paying me were COMPLETELY in charge of the pregnancy. And if I was the one contracting a surrogate, I would expect the same.
I can't even imagine how abortion is not discussed in this kind of arrangement - that's one of the most important things to discuss, I would think.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 5, 2013 20:16:36 GMT -5
Like I said, I seriously considered being a surrogate (until I found out that I was too old) - if I were to do it - I would have felt that couple who were paying me were COMPLETELY in charge of the pregnancy. And if I was the one contracting a surrogate, I would expect the same. I can't even imagine how abortion is not discussed in this kind of arrangement - that's one of the most important things to discuss, I would think. And that is why I would suck as a surrogate. I just couldn't bring myself to abort a baby that I was carrying.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 5, 2013 20:16:46 GMT -5
it was, to some extent. not nearly in enough detail, IMHO.
if you have time, you should definitely read it.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 5, 2013 20:22:47 GMT -5
And I guess that's what it boils down to - if someone is PAYING you for that body, for that one particular area, to do that one particular job - how much right do you still have?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 5, 2013 20:23:49 GMT -5
And I guess that's what it boils down to - if someone is PAYING you for that body, for that one particular area, to do that one particular job - how much right do you still have? I completely agree.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Mar 5, 2013 23:06:13 GMT -5
I've heard two interviews with the surrogate. I mostly blame her, honestly. She signed a contract saying she'd abort. When they asked her to abort she refused. Then she said she would do it for 15K. They refused to pay it and suddenly she became pro-life. The couple wanted to give the baby up for adoption (they have kids with medical needs and knew they couldn't care for it), but she didn't want them to so she moved across the country to end their rights...and then decided to give the baby up for adoption when SHE realized how hard it would be to care for the child. WTF ? Now some poor family has to care for this baby whose defects are actually worse than the tests had indicated. I'm sure the govt is picking up the tab. And the poor baby has to suffer through a bunch of issues (and may not live long anyway). Sad, sad, sad.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 5, 2013 23:29:32 GMT -5
I'd be much more ok with this if the surrogate didn't give the baby up for adoption.
If the tests came back and she couldn't bear to terminate the pregnancy fine, but that is when she needed to commit to raise the baby.
And yeah, the whole I'll terminate for $15k is disgusting.
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Colleenz
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Post by Colleenz on Mar 6, 2013 4:56:04 GMT -5
Having contracted with a surrogate years ago, this is one of the major fears. Here is the other scary one. Most states consider the Mother to be whomever delivers the baby regardless of genetic connection. That is one of the reasons we worked with a woman who had already carried and relinquished three surrobabies. Most of the women who do this are really amazing.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Mar 6, 2013 7:07:25 GMT -5
I wonder if the parents will want to put the baby for adoption, if that's even an option. I am one of those women who loved being pregnant and if I was younger, I would have loved being a surrogate. But I keep hearing women saying that they are reluctant to do it for reasons just like this one. Very sad The parents wanted the surrogate to abort the baby and used the laws of Connecticut to attempt to do that. They offered the surrogate $10k to do so. She refused, then countered with $15k, but then still didn't want to do it. She moved to Michigan which recognized her as the parent of the baby. The baby was adopted by a couple in Michigan who have other special needs children. It turned out that the egg that was used for the IVF was not the woman's in Conn but a donor and the sperm was her husbands. This seemed to further complicate matters. The Conn. couple have three children but wanted a 4th.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Mar 6, 2013 7:14:33 GMT -5
I'd be much more ok with this if the surrogate didn't give the baby up for adoption. If the tests came back and she couldn't bear to terminate the pregnancy fine, but that is when she needed to commit to raise the baby. And yeah, the whole I'll terminate for $15k is disgusting. Only $5k more disgusting than the hiring couple's original offer I suspect.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Mar 6, 2013 7:16:20 GMT -5
Like I said, I seriously considered being a surrogate (until I found out that I was too old) - if I were to do it - I would have felt that couple who were paying me were COMPLETELY in charge of the pregnancy. And if I was the one contracting a surrogate, I would expect the same. I can't even imagine how abortion is not discussed in this kind of arrangement - that's one of the most important things to discuss, I would think. I certainly would not consider myself morally detached from the decision just because i was a surrogate, nor do I hold this poor unemployed mother of two at fault for seeking out adoptive parents for this fragile baby...she couldn't even provide for her own. From my reading, it was agreed upon to abort for severe defects.....the disagreement was on how severe was severe, although not sure exactly what the surrogate may have regarded as severe enough. I think this is one of those cases that highlights how much something is not thought out until it happens. Going forward-more agreements are going to specify this issue out to the nth degree. Very sad for all involved....the parents, the baby, the surrogate....very difficult for all Any contract is only as good as those who sign it. Should the court in Conn have arrested the surrogate and forcibly performed an abortion?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 6, 2013 7:18:55 GMT -5
I certainly would not consider myself morally detached from the decision just because i was a surrogate, nor do I hold this poor unemployed mother of two at fault for seeking out adoptive parents for this fragile baby...she couldn't even provide for her own. From my reading, it was agreed upon to abort for severe defects.....the disagreement was on how severe was severe, although not sure exactly what the surrogate may have regarded as severe enough. I think this is one of those cases that highlights how much something is not thought out until it happens. Going forward-more agreements are going to specify this issue out to the nth degree. Very sad for all involved....the parents, the baby, the surrogate....very difficult for all Any contract is only as good as those who sign it. Should the court in Conn have arrested the surrogate and forcibly performed an abortion? No, absolutely not. But what good is a contract that cannot be legally enforced? sent from my electronic distraction
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Mar 6, 2013 7:23:41 GMT -5
The couple wanted to give the baby up for adoption (they have kids with medical needs and knew they couldn't care for it), but she didn't want them to so she moved across the country to end their rights...an d then decided to give the baby up for adoption when SHE realized how hard it would be to care for the child. WTF ? Well, the surrogate turned offer her services to bring in money. She was a single mom of two with no job. From what I've seen in other reactions to this story, she shouldn't have been paired up with a couple in the first place. I guess it's a big no-no in the surrogacy world to hire a surrogate that has no source of income. (From what I've read on another message board about this). It also sounds like she romanticized her pregnancy/the baby too much, and only focused on what she wanted to hear rather than the full truth. I think it's hard to try to understand the impact of something in the abstract, especially if one has never had the experience before (whether it's something like taking care of a child that hasn't yet been born, or dealing with other issues like supposing what you might do if your partner cheated on you, your family shunned you, job loss, what have you) I think after the birth, reality slapped her in the face and she finally understood what she was getting into, and decided it wasn't going to work for her. Being jobless with two other kids to support, I don't see how she could take care of the baby. Adoption was her only option. When people make purely emotional decisions, rather than well thought out reasoned ones, it doesn't ever end up well.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Mar 6, 2013 7:28:10 GMT -5
Any contract is only as good as those who sign it. Should the court in Conn have arrested the surrogate and forcibly performed an abortion? No, absolutely not. But what good is a contract that cannot be legally enforced? sent from my electronic distraction Good point, This is an example of one that can't be enforced. The surrogate was hired and contracted in Conn. That contract had no bearing in Michigan as they only recognize the woman who is carrying the baby as the mother. In addition, the Conn woman was not the biological mother, they had used an egg donor. I can certainly understand the Conn. couple not wanting to have a child with severe disabilities. They having had two children already that have required great levels of care due to issues surrounding their prematurity. Or even if that wasn't the case. But, they are asking that this child should be killed as opposed to adopted by a family that is willing to care for her regardless of the level of her disabilities. As we're here on YM, if you were to view it only from a fiscal viewpoint, yes, this child is going to require a lot of financial resources. Not just from her adopted family but from the government. It is only fair to acknowledge that. But, why would the Conn. couple have been so opposed to the child being born and then adopted?
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adela76
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Post by adela76 on Mar 6, 2013 8:30:13 GMT -5
No, absolutely not. But what good is a contract that cannot be legally enforced? sent from my electronic distraction Good point, This is an example of one that can't be enforced. The surrogate was hired and contracted in Conn. That contract had not bearing in Michigan as they only recognize the woman who is carrying the baby as the mother. In addition, the Conn woman was not the biological mother, they had used an egg donor. I can certainly understand the Conn. couple not wanting to have a child with severe disabilities. They having had two children already that have required great levels of care due to issues surrounding their prematurity. Or even if that wasn't the case. But, they are asking that this child should be killed as opposed to adopted by a family that is willing to care for her regardless of the level of her disabilities. As we're here on YM, if you were to view it only from a fiscal viewpoint, yes, this child is going to require a lot of financial resources. Not just from her adopted family but from the government. It is only fair to acknowledge that. But, why would the Conn. couple have been so opposed to the child being born and then adopted? They weren't. In the article I read, after the surrogate refused to abort, they informed her that they would take custody of the baby after it was born and surrender her to the state of Connecticut for adoption. It was only AFTER they talked about adoption that the surrogate packed up and moved to Michigan (with the help of the woman who eventually adopted her baby, who she had met online).
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 6, 2013 8:58:35 GMT -5
I try not to judge- but fighting so hard to keep the baby but then giving it up for adoption sits really, really wrong with me. Yeah. Me too.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 6, 2013 9:01:24 GMT -5
I'm still scratching my head about the "I won't abort for $10k but I will for $15k"
That's some interesting morals.......
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