Professionalism & Legal rights

[Tennesseer]

If the school said they are looking into the matter, I would say let them do their work.

As for the students being 'bullied', I would tell them to write everything down as it happens (so they don't forget). Keep a log of events. And depending on your state's laws (the state where the school is located), the bullied party might want to secretly tape the conversations. The state though may require the party taping the conversation, notify the other party (the bully) their conversation is going to be recorded. If permission is denied, then submitting the tape as evidence cannot be considered in any decisions and they could be breaking the law.

[midjd]

Rukh, you flatterer!

Audrey, does your school have its disciplinary procedure/process published anywhere? If so, it may give some clues as to whether they're looking into it or "looking into it."  It seems sloppy for them to have given out the witness list, particularly if there was no confidentiality attached (I'm assuming there wasn't, or action should've already been taken).

Tenn is right that those being bullied should document, document, document. Specifics - names, dates, places, contact information.

If the school does nothing, their other option would be a tort claim for libel or slander. They would have to prove damages, which can be difficult (not only finding people who can testify that the statements were made, but showing that the statements directly led to job loss or denial of a job opportunity).

They have the right to defend themselves against the rumors, although probably shouldn't engage in rumor-spreading themselves.

I know Tdog, Molly, and IPAfan are local, they may have more state-specific advice.

[Deleted]

1. If the school did not take the students through a trial, then there was never proof they cheated, so it would be inappropriate to discuss it.  You can, but then you would be individually responsible if the cheater decides to file a slander lawsuit against you.

2. If the person is harassing you personally, you can file for an Anti-Harrassment Restraining order.  You can state that their actions are retaliatory against you due to your willingness to act as a witness against them in a school accusation of cheating.  Then that's public record    You have not actually accused them of cheating, just that you were to be a witness related to the accusation.  You could provide copies of the court documents to select professors anonymously & voila, message conveyed.

3. If the person is making derogatory statements against you all to professors, it seems the professors could be witnesses in a slander suit if you suffer from the false accusations.  Are the professors paying attention to what the person is saying or blowing them off because they know she/he is a trouble maker?

WHO has made complaints to the school administration?  Each of the affected people, or just one?  Who says they are "looking into it"?  do you know this first hand, or is someone other than the school giving you to scoop?  If you haven't personally made a complaint, don't assume you are getting correct information or that the school understands the full scope of the information.  If you are affected, then make sure you are personally involved, not depending on a spokesperson to deal with it.

[thyme4change]

If I knew exactly what rumors were being told to whom, I would go to those people and say "I hope you don't believe what is being said about me.  I know who started that rumor and why.  Do you have any concerns with my performance that would lead you to believe it is true?"  And if they say "Why would Susie say such a thing?"  I would just answer "I know why she took a year off the program, and she wishes I didn't know."  If they press you for information, you can just say "It isn't my story to tell."  If you do this, you will look professional, and she will look petty.  It will also become clear to her that you aren't going to gossip about her, but you will not stand for her gossiping about you, either.

[Tiny]

Is it safe to assume that when the woman is directly 'bullying' someone - with nasty words whatever - that the witness doesn't just stand there and take it?  I'm assuming someone on the bullying end said calmly and politely -  "I really don't like it when say things like that to me (ie swear at me).  That's rude.  Please stop." 
or something appropriate to that effect?   If you all are just being doormats when she's in your presence then documenting stuff isn't enough.  

Ok, I know talking back to the person doesn't really help things - but it's usually the first thing you do... it gives your future documentation and complaints some 'strength'.     You tried to work out a childish issue with the woman - but being adult did do it... so you've got the high ground AND you need help cause what you did to try to remedy the problem didn't fix it.

My employers policy on Harrassments first line of what to do - is to tell the person (if you feel safe doing it) that they stop doing whatever they are doing.  If you don't feel safe doing so, or if after you have done so and it continues - then it's time to get people in power involved.

She says obscene things to them when she catches them alone (our school is small and our program is concentrated in one area) and has been spreading rumors about them (being sub-par students, unethical people, etc) to various professors/professionals we work with/etc. 

This falls under my employers Harrassment policy...  I suspect your school has some way of dealing with harrassment (sexual, bullying, etc)  I'd suggest you start there...    This no longer involves where or not the person cheated.... it's current bullying and harrassment - her poor behavior.  

[Deleted]

Wow, you people are all so much nicer than me. I would be telling everyone far and wide that she is being a bitch because we called her out on her cheating. And she would be getting any BS back worse than she was dishing it out to me. It wouldn't even occur to me to call the police or go to the Administration about it. Unless I was threatening to sue the Administration for creating a hostile environment for me.

[happyscooter]

This type of thing is going on at UNC_CH right now.  And I think they are trying to get the female kicked out for continuing to talk about the 'incident'.

[Deleted]

Mar 2, 2013 22:03:20 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Wow, you people are all so much nicer than me. I would be telling everyone far and wide that she is being a bitch because we called her out on her cheating. And she would be getting any BS back worse than she was dishing it out to me. It wouldn't even occur to me to call the police or go to the Administration about it. Unless I was threatening to sue the Administration for creating a hostile environment for me.

Basically this. I am my mother's child and do not take other people's bullshit.

An employer or boss, I might think about it and have some reservation. An equal and I got dirt on you, biatch it's on like donkey kong. Don't start something you cannot finish, even more so if I did not sign any documents stating I would keep quiet and I have proof... Not just any proof but pictures!!!

I don't get it, the witness are the ones with the upper hand yet they are the one doing nothing. You guys are indeed too nice.

[Deleted]

If it were me i wouldnt have told on the cheaters in the first place. No tattle tale. But if i had for some reason, i would be letting people know why i am being harrassed. He/she is the one who did wrong, doesnt get to bully anyone!

[Deleted]

I'm AMAZED that the cheaters could come back a year later, give a lame excuse, and pretend that nothing happened, and then attack other people!!!

Did THEY not have to sign some sort of non-disclosure agreement in exchange for pleading no-contest and being allowed back? I would be AMAZED if one of the conditions for coming back wouldn't have been total silence about what happened, if only so they couldn't make the school look bad worse than they already do to the people that already know about this. But maybe I'm very naive, and maybe they're very stupid. That is the LEAST I'd have demanded, and I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV.

I would definitely try to find out if they have a non-disclosure agreement, and if they do, they are most certainly violating it.

And even if not, at the very least, it certainly sounds like these two people are guilty of harassment. I'm NOT "sue happy" by any means, but this is beyond the pale.

I teach at a university and I think this behavior is TOTALLY abhorrent. And if it doesn't get "nipped in the bud", quickly, if it's allowed to drag on, it could tarnish the entire department, for years to come.

[Deleted]

If it were me i wouldnt have told on the cheaters in the first place.

Bunny I'm not sure I would have either. But last semester one brave student did. The cheater actually posted the fact that she cheated, plus how she cheated, plus who she cheated with, on FB. Well DUH. The "tattle tale" took a screenshot and sent it to the school.

The "tattler" was protected, the cheaters were NOT.

Sorry, but to me, that's the way things should be.

In this case the cheaters were given a warning (second year of university in a 5Y Masters program) and they had to admit it (the proof was there), apologize, and work X hours for the school.They were NOT kicked out. But, if they ever have a second offense, they WILL be kicked out.

Plus all the other students in that class now HATE the original cheater because they ALL  had to retake ALL their exams, and you can imagine the second set of exams were a HECK of a lot tougher than the first set. 

All this to say, Audrey, that my school managed to get the STUDENTS to dislike the cheater.

I think they did well.

[Deleted]

I guess i am not understanding why it is such a huge deal to the other students. If i saw someone cheating in a test, which i have seen on a lot of occasions, i could care less. If they are hurting anyone, it is themselves. I especially dont get that it is such a huge deal that other students were gathering evidence for 6 months rather than worrying about their own business. We are talking about a test, not somebody's invention.

[thyme4change]

continued to cheat in the same method for the entire school year 

How were they cheating?[/span]

[swamp]

I'm not sure how an adult in a position with no power can bully.  Tell her to go fuck herself. 

[zibazinski]

There are some schools where if you see a cheater and do nothing, you're as guilty as the cheater.

[Angel!]

Mar 3, 2013 21:38:53 GMT -5 @bunnysmom said:

I guess i am not understanding why it is such a huge deal to the other students. If i saw someone cheating in a test, which i have seen on a lot of occasions, i could care less. If they are hurting anyone, it is themselves. I especially dont get that it is such a huge deal that other students were gathering evidence for 6 months rather than worrying about their own business. We are talking about a test, not somebody's invention.

If tests are graded on a curve, then it could affect everyone else in the class. 

[Deleted]

My grad program admitted a maximum of 10 students per year (my year admitted 8). 

If I had caught someone cheating, I would have turned them in in a heartbeat.  These people were my competition for assistantships, internships, scholarships/grants, and eventually residencies.

Luckily, we had a good group that didn't put up with crap from anyone, including the administration.  We got the chair of the department demoted for trying to mess with the program requirements.

[formerroomate99]

The school told all the witnesses that they were not allowed to say anything to anyone about what they saw, the disposition of the case, etc.

Did the wittnesses sign anything saying they wouldn't reveal what they knew?  Because if they didn't, I don't know how this could be enforced.

Either way, if it were me, I'd be telling everyone that the cheater had it in for me because I wittnessed her cheating and the school chose to 'out' me for doing the right thing. 

[shanendoah]

At the school, the professors should have been told by the administration exactly what the situation is, and know to ignore the inappropriate comments from the students who are now back in the program.
The real problem here, as I see it, is that the harassment is now being taken outside of school and into the workplace, where it can be considered slander and/or harassment. The young woman who is finding her ability to work being harmed by the "cheater" needs to go to HR for the employer. Even if your school does not have slander/harassment rules, I can guarantee you the employer does.
This problem has now spanned two separate "worlds" so to speak. Going to the administration is fine for trying to get it handled in the education realm, but it also needs to be dealt with in the professional world, and that means HR.