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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 11:41:01 GMT -5
Better doors, with less glass would be a start! DH compared a school to an aquarium when we were talking about this yesterday. Even if you get rid of glass in the front doors there's still windows in every classroom.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 17, 2012 11:43:49 GMT -5
So, the answer is to lock every child in a windowless room for 9 months of every year of their lives?
I'll roll the dice. Especially since they eliminated recess.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 11:53:37 GMT -5
So, the answer is to lock every child in a windowless room for 9 months of every year of their lives? I'll roll the dice. Especially since they eliminated recess. Exactly! He said if a crazy person is intent on killing there's nothing anyone can do to stop them. The guy would have just shot any kind of security guard had they had one. And if they barred the doors he could have shot out a window to get in. And if the windows had bars he could have just shot them all out.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 17, 2012 12:15:24 GMT -5
I was in Brazil and didn't get home until Saturday and that is when I saw coverage of this at the airport. I was literally in tears and couldn't contain myself. I have avoided news coverage since.
I am bombarded with posts on FB, though. Some of these make me think. Everyone is blaming something...easy access to guns, lack of mental health services, taking God out of our schools, absentee fathers, etc. I don't know what the answer is but somewhere we have failed as a society.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 17, 2012 12:18:02 GMT -5
I don't know why people watch. It must be something instinctive in our DNA - sort of like why people rubberneck at car accidents.
I haven't watched any TV since Friday. I specifically read about 10 minutes of online news over the weekend but kept it high level - no details about individual victims. I've stayed off FB. I don't think there is any benefit to me to watch the coverage whereas quite possibly it could harm me (cause anxiety/depression). I don't think there is any benefit to my kids hearing about it so other than a simple sentence explaining what happened, they're unaware as well.
I don't believe that just because technology now allows us unlimited access to information, that we are better off knowing all information. Not every detail needs to be known (police excepted, obviously). Much of the coverage is gratuitous IMO, and actually disrespects the incident.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 17, 2012 12:20:22 GMT -5
Have we? Our homicide rates aren't that much higher than they were in the 50's - when there were no video games, the family unit stayed together, we prayed in school and we had facilities for people who showed severe mental illness. Our current rate is almost half of what it was in the 80's. I think we are improving, or at least staying flat. Maybe this is just the natural rate for people living together.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Dec 17, 2012 12:23:36 GMT -5
Better doors, with less glass would be a start! DH compared a school to an aquarium when we were talking about this yesterday. Even if you get rid of glass in the front doors there's still windows in every classroom. There are two high schools in my city. DS' school has windows but you can't see in them. The bottom halves of them are blacked out. The other high school has no windows at all. Just the set of doors in the front. I asked DS about that and at his school once the day starts all of the doors are locked (so you can get out but not in) except for the one from the main building to the annex and the main entrance to the annex (it's like 100 yards walk between the two buildings). There is a desk inside both doors that is manned by a teacher on their free period at all times. They unlock the main entrances for the open campus lunch and then they are locked again.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Dec 17, 2012 12:24:43 GMT -5
Thyme is right. Despite this shooting, violent crime has been on the decline for decades. Fewer people are murdered each year.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 17, 2012 12:25:31 GMT -5
Have we? Our homicide rates aren't that much higher than they were in the 50's - when there were no video games, the family unit stayed together, we prayed in school and we had facilities for people who showed severe mental illness. Our current rate is almost half of what it was in the 80's. I think we are improving, or at least staying flat. Maybe this is just the natural rate for people living together. Maybe the murder rate is staying the same or declining but I don't remember these types of shootings when I was a child. We didin't have security at my school and worrying about some psycho busting in and shooting us was never considered.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Dec 17, 2012 12:32:44 GMT -5
I was watching football last night and they interrupted the game to show the President speaking at the memorial. I had 2 questions: Why interrupt coverage and why is he speaking at all? He didn't know any of them. So, I guess you can add me to the cold and heartless list.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 17, 2012 12:36:54 GMT -5
As I said on the other thread - we are angry and we don't know how to deal with it.
When I was a kid, boys fought all the time. Went home with bloody noses and played soccer the next day. You can't do that anymore in schools. Children are not allowed to express their emotions they way they should. They also don't know how to deal with them, bc we are suppose to be all "kind and accepting and nice". Yeah, that's working out so well.....
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Dec 17, 2012 12:42:04 GMT -5
Lena- are you suggesting that kids be allowed to fight in school again?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 17, 2012 12:44:01 GMT -5
I'm not sure that is the answer, but I agree that we have a problem with "anger." You aren't allowed to be angry at all. Unfortunately, it is a real emotion. We judge people who don't control their anger. We judge anyone who has anger. We are better than those people because we aren't angry and they are. Is there another way to deal with anger than just repress it?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 17, 2012 12:45:22 GMT -5
I am suggesting that 8-10-12 yr old boys should be allowed to be just that.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 17, 2012 12:47:25 GMT -5
But in theory, we don't repress the anger. We medicate. We send kids to shrinks. We talk about it. Yeah, all great. Kids are not developed enough to control their emotions. They need to be able to express it. And yes, I would rather if you are angry with me, punch me in the face than go around pretending that you are fine and than shoot 20 people
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 17, 2012 12:47:26 GMT -5
Someone on the radio this morning brought up an interesting point. Every single one of these guys has at some point been in mental health care and on some sort of drug cocktail then "went off them".
These drugs aren't something to mess around with yet doctors prescribe them like candy. DH went off his cold turkey and he developed out of control rage, decided he didn't like that and went back on them. There is absolutely no type of protocol in place for if he ever decides he wants to try a new one or wean off them entirely.
You should have to see a psychatrist to get them, just as you have to see a specialist for anything else nowadays. DH's GP shouldn't be in charge of handing out these types of medications unless he's had additional training.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 17, 2012 12:50:28 GMT -5
I turned off the TV at 8 in the morning Friday and didn't get to see any news until after 3. I saw the title to the thread on EE but other than that didn't know any details until my DD mentioned it. I got the details from watching the news and stopped watching that night. It is just too much for me to take and still function properly. I think this weekend we, different people at different times, watched The Santa Clause, a NCIS marathon and 81 episodes of the Big Bang Theory. Think we were trying to escape the news?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Dec 17, 2012 12:51:39 GMT -5
I don't. On Friday I was watching a show and during the commercials the local news broadcast did their advertisment for let's say the 7pm news and the anchor said "how and where they died" and all I could think was why in the hell did I want to hear that? Don't get me wrong I'm not ignoring it and it's horrible but I just don't see the point in hearing certain details and hearing about it non stop.
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aliciar6
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Post by aliciar6 on Dec 17, 2012 12:53:55 GMT -5
I don't know what the answer is but somewhere we have failed as a society. when i'm allowed to dole out karma again, you're getting it. I saw enough just in the headlines that I just can't follow it anymore, it breaks my heart too much and there is no "why" or reason out there that can rationalize in anyone's mind why this psycho did this to innocent children and why innocent civilians are shot in the mall, in the movie theater, etc.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Dec 17, 2012 13:04:55 GMT -5
Lena- you honestly think that allowing 8 to 12 year old boys beat up on each other anytime they are angry or frustrated is the answer? I have to disagree with you on that. That's going to cause an increase in bullying and violence in school. If you teach them at 12 that the way to relieve their stress, anger, frustration, etc is to punch someone than what will they be doing to find that outlet when they are 15? 18? 35? 40 years old?
I am routinely shocked by how out of touch some parents are with their kids. DS is a freshman in high school. I can tell you the names of his classmates, friends, teachers, crush, etc. I know which classes are his favorites and which are his least favorites. I know what book he is currently reading (maybe not the title but I could tell you the author because he typically reads on series at a time). I know who his partner is in YIG, what their position is on their court of appeals court case is. What game he plays on line with his friends, who he plays on line with etc.
I am shock and amazed when I run in to friends with kids his age. I'll ask them "so is Billy enjoying his freshman year?" and they'll shrug and say "I don't know. I guess". Or if I say "Does your son have Miller for American Studies too?" I always get a blank stare from people. Why do people not take the time to get to know their freaking kids? How do you let this separation grow to the point that you don't know what's going on in their lives? I think if more parents were aware of what was actually going on in their kids lives they would be able to get these kids help when they started going off the path and having problems instead of ignoring the warning signs until they escalate to the point of that they shoot up an elementary school, movie theater, etc.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 17, 2012 13:05:59 GMT -5
YIG?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Dec 17, 2012 13:06:53 GMT -5
Sorry- Youth In Government. DS does Model Assembly (state government) and Model United Nations. KB- if I use that short hand is Knowledge Bowl
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 17, 2012 13:15:59 GMT -5
I'm jealous Sheila. Neither of my kids are talkers, and their school day is a big black hole. I set aside 30 minutes each day for 1x1 time when they get home and attempt to get info with open-ended questions, but all I get is "I don't remember." They're 6&8 and have been this way since Kindy. At first I thought DS did it due to his autism, but DD does it too.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 17, 2012 13:24:45 GMT -5
My daughter is this way. My son is more open - but only with what is on his mind, so sometimes I get a detail recount of the video game he played or something.
What I did notice is when I would drive my daughter to and from gymnastics, she would (not always) more information on me than I could handle. It was like someone unlocked her mind and everything tumbled out. So, when I really want to know something, I think of someplace she would like to go that is a little farther away (want to pick up cupcakes for dinner, from the bakery that is 30 minutes away?) and often times the pay-off is worth it. If not, hey, I get a cupcake.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 17, 2012 13:28:36 GMT -5
My daughter is this way. My son is more open - but only with what is on his mind, so sometimes I get a detail recount of the video game he played or something. What I did notice is when I would drive my daughter to and from gymnastics, she would (not always) more information on me than I could handle. It was like someone unlocked her mind and everything tumbled out. So, when I really want to know something, I think of someplace she would like to go that is a little farther away (want to pick up cupcakes for dinner, from the bakery that is 30 minutes away?) and often times the pay-off is worth it. If not, hey, I get a cupcake. I do that with my DD as well. She's an introvert and it's like she needs to process stuff before she can tell me about it. Car rides seem to be good places for her to suddenly open up. I have to be really in tune with her so that if she is in a mood to talk I recognize it and let her lead the conversation. And she's only six. I didn't expect this sort of thing until puberty.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Dec 17, 2012 13:35:30 GMT -5
^ That's exactly how I was (and still am, to some extent). I need time to decompress before I start talking about my day, and sometimes even after decompressing I don't feel like talking about it Car rides are pretty good for opening up, though. Something about not having to look at the other person...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 13:39:33 GMT -5
I usually sit down with my two while they have their after school snack before they start their homework. I ask them to tell me one thing they learned today, one thing that made them laugh, what happened in their "special" that day (music, art, gym), what they had for lunch....something they have to give me an answer to. I am hoping it helps keep the communication lines open for when they're older.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 17, 2012 13:51:28 GMT -5
::Maybe the murder rate is staying the same or declining but I don't remember these types of shootings when I was a child. We didin't have security at my school and worrying about some psycho busting in and shooting us was never considered. ::
When you were a child, there wasn't the internet with a 24 hours news cycle. I'm not sure that means it didn't happen or just didn't get reported. By the same token, people looking to be famous for doing something like this probably didn't have the same expectation of fame due to the lack of coverage.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Dec 17, 2012 13:57:16 GMT -5
There has been at least one mass murder in just about every 5 year period since the 40's. Trying to remember things like this from your childhood and comparing it to today is apples and oranges. If you really want to compare, do some research. It is easy to find information about mass killings and murder sprees. People love this stuff, and these stories live on. You could probably do a much better time of arguing that it happens more now if you had facts, not feelings.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Dec 17, 2012 14:02:02 GMT -5
It's always been just the three of us- DH, DS and myself. I know that we are beyond lucky to have him so willing to talk to us and open up as much as he does. Car rides are a big time that he'll talk to me and tell me things. But we sit down for breakfast together every morning and dinner every night. No phones or texting at dinner, no tv on in the background. We just talk about our day.
DH is bipolar and went undiagnosed for years- actually that's not entirely true. He was diagnosed at 17 and his mom told the doctor he was a quack and didn't send DH back to see him. He wasn't diagnosed again as an adult until like 6 years ago. We know that DS is at risk for bi polar disorder. We have told him that he has to talk to us and let us know what's going on in life his so that if he does have any problems we can get him treatment as soon as possible.
The best thing is that DH and DS play this game called War Machine. They play it at our local dork den (that's the name of the store) and have a wide group of friends there that they play with. It's been so awesome to see them bonding like that. They'll sit around the table in the family room painting their models and talking about life.
My favorite days of the week are Tuesdays and Thursdays because DS has KB that day and he always has a funny story about practice or tries to stump me with trivia questions that he got right that other people didn't know.
We are lucky in that DS' friends are a good bit like him. They will come over and visit with us when they have sleepovers. G was over on Friday while they finished up their YIG position and afterwards the two of them spent probably an hour sitting in the living room talking with us about school, life, etc while we waited for his dad to pick him up. If G is there for dinner he'll say "so how was your day at work today?" and actually listen to my answer and tell me about his day or what's going on in his family's world. It's the same thing with the other families too. G's dad will take the boys out to the cabin on the lake and spend hours sitting around the bonfire with them talking and listening to their stories.
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