hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 14, 2012 10:51:33 GMT -5
::I totally agree, daisy. Banning one is a foot in the door to ban all.::
We already ban all kinds of weapons. Throughout history, this "slippery slope" argument simply doesn't hold up to be true. Drugs, sex, guns, speed limits, etc...all have cutoffs, none have devolved into "banning all". If you subscribe to the slippery slope arguments then there should be no rules anywhere, as all rules could eventually be extrapolated to prohibit almost anything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 10:52:58 GMT -5
There is absolutely no effort in place to ban all guns. The Supreme Court has upheld individual rights,and the only two laws Obama has signed on guns have EXPANDED rights.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Dec 14, 2012 10:53:49 GMT -5
Now I miss verrip1--I want to tease him about the fact that I own a switch blade and he can't
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 14, 2012 11:07:39 GMT -5
anne, criminals will commit crimes no matter what. It does no good to restrict law abiding citizens from having the means to protect themselves. FYI, he did not have an assault rifle - they are illegal to own. He may have had an assault STYLE rifle. Dark, the whole point of training is to condition yourself to react, so you properly handle the situation in an emergency. If you practice enough in different scenarios, you will get it right when the time comes. Until they allow us to shoot each other, we are stuck with paper targets and other substitutes. Ok, again... the rifle was SEMI-auto, so no, not assult rifle. However, full-auto assault rifles (AK47s, 308s, even a fully auto glock handgun--which is awesome by the way) are legal, in Oregon, with the right paperwork and documentation. I really, really, really hope that AKs are legal in Florida because I discovered one in my safe a few weeks ago.
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daisylu
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Post by daisylu on Dec 14, 2012 11:08:56 GMT -5
I do not remember any other those being listed in the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 14, 2012 11:14:21 GMT -5
When the second amendement was written you owned a musket and maybe a flintlock. I don't think they ever could have fathomed an automatic weapon.
So I don't think their idea of "right to bear arms" was the same as ours.
Not saying I am for banning guns, I just never understand bringing up the second amendement because back then your flintlock was pretty much all you had to protect you against anything. People hardly collected guns for sport and certainly didn't want automatic weapons.
Just because it says "bear arms", IMO, doesn't mean we shouldn't examine things in their current context.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 14, 2012 11:16:30 GMT -5
::I do not remember any other those being listed in the Second Amendment to the Constitution. ::
I don't remember assault rifles being listed either. They're mentioned just as often as handguns, shotguns, and rifles, etc. So we should be ok as long as we allow at least 1 very simple "arm" that people can have. Even if that's a BB gun.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 11:17:38 GMT -5
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; ... George Washington, Firest Annual Address, to both House of Congress (8 January 1790)
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daisylu
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Post by daisylu on Dec 14, 2012 11:28:00 GMT -5
www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendmentSounds pretty all encompassing to me. I am not a lawyer or a politician, nor do I play one on TV, but it reads like you would have to repeal the second amendment in order to place a restriction on a certain type of firearm. I believe that is why those who believe that you should be able to protect your home or hunt your own meat are so adamantly against trying to ban ANY type of firearm.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 14, 2012 11:40:49 GMT -5
::Sounds pretty all encompassing to me. I am not a lawyer or a politician, nor do I play one on TV, but it reads like you would have to repeal the second amendment in order to place a restriction on a certain type of firearm. I believe that is why those who believe that you should be able to protect your home or hunt your own meat are so adamantly against trying to ban ANY type of firearm.::
So you think it's unconstitutional to ban any type of "arms", even if they're biological, nuclear, etc. "Arms" is not synonymous with "common guns".
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 14, 2012 12:14:27 GMT -5
Another school shooting this morning. Seems like it's happening on a daily basis now. It's getting to the point where I may have to rethink trips to the US. If I go to a shopping mall, I may get shot. If I go to a place of worship, I may get shot. If I go to the movies, I may get shot. What the hell is going on down there? Guns don't kill people. Americans kill people.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Dec 14, 2012 12:22:53 GMT -5
Another school shooting this morning. Seems like it's happening on a daily basis now. It's getting to the point where I may have to rethink trips to the US. If I go to a shopping mall, I may get shot. If I go to a place of worship, I may get shot. If I go to the movies, I may get shot. What the hell is going on down there? Guns don't kill people. Americans kill people. They are saying that most of the shooting took place in a kindergarten classroom. My heart is breaking and I really want to run home and hug my kid.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 14, 2012 12:30:11 GMT -5
Another school shooting this morning. Seems like it's happening on a daily basis now. It's getting to the point where I may have to rethink trips to the US. If I go to a shopping mall, I may get shot. If I go to a place of worship, I may get shot. If I go to the movies, I may get shot. What the hell is going on down there? Guns don't kill people. Americans kill people. Wasn't there a mall shooting recently in Toronto?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 14, 2012 12:33:26 GMT -5
They are saying that most of the shooting took place in a kindergarten classroom. My heart is breaking and I really want to run home and hug my kid. -------------- I know, eh? Evidently the shooter fired off more than 100 rounds. Can't do that with a handgun. Uh huh. Clearly, more assault weapons and semi-automatics are the answer. What could possibly go wrong?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 14, 2012 12:35:29 GMT -5
Another school shooting this morning. Seems like it's happening on a daily basis now. It's getting to the point where I may have to rethink trips to the US. If I go to a shopping mall, I may get shot. If I go to a place of worship, I may get shot. If I go to the movies, I may get shot. What the hell is going on down there? Guns don't kill people. Americans kill people. Wasn't there a mall shooting recently in Toronto? I think several years ago, a guy shot up a classroom at McGill University in Montreal.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 14, 2012 12:35:52 GMT -5
Wasn't there a mall shooting recently in Toronto? ----------------- Gang-related settling of accounts. A little different from walking into a public place and opening fire just for the hell of it, and then killing yourself.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 14, 2012 12:37:52 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 14, 2012 12:45:32 GMT -5
Of course we have shootings. That was a dark day in Canadian history, but it happened over two decades ago. Every time I turn on the TV, there's another mass shooting of innocents in the land of the free and the home of the brave.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Dec 14, 2012 12:48:49 GMT -5
Your anti-American bullshit isn't helping, Weltz. Some of us are in deep mourning for these children and don't see it as just another opportunity to take pot shots at others.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 14, 2012 12:50:45 GMT -5
Your anti-American bullshit isn't helping, Weltz. Some of us are in deep mourning for these children and don't see it as just another opportunity to take pot shots at others. I'm in mourning as well. This is a thread about gun control and gun violence, is it not? Do you think more guns in the hands of the populace is a good idea?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 14, 2012 12:56:55 GMT -5
Your anti-American bullshit isn't helping, Weltz. Some of us are in deep mourning for these children and don't see it as just another opportunity to take pot shots at others. I'm in mourning as well. This is a thread about gun control and gun violence, is it not? Do you think more guns in the hands of the populace is a good idea? Yep. If there were more people carrying, those who perpetuate these acts might think twice if they don't know if someone can fight back. Read In the Gravest Extreme by Massad Ayoob. Just carrying has saved his life more than once and he never had to fire a shot.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Dec 14, 2012 13:12:15 GMT -5
The movie theater, the spa, the mall, now a school. Not counting the shooters, that is 44 people in just a few months. I don't think you can call it a media concoction.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 14, 2012 13:13:12 GMT -5
Yep. If there were more people carrying, those who perpetuate these acts might think twice if they don't know if someone can fight back. Read In the Gravest Extreme by Massad Ayoob. Just carrying has saved his life more than once and he never had to fire a shot. ----------------- He had an assault rifle? I'm not anti-gun. I have guns. I just don't understand why people need semi-automatics and assault rifles.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 13:16:23 GMT -5
The idea that there should be no limits on the 2nd amendment will backfire. If you can't accept reasonable regulation, then THAT might spur a re-look at the second amendment and its pesky qualifying clause. Otherwise, most people are all for reasonable individual gun ownership.
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damnotagain
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Post by damnotagain on Dec 14, 2012 13:16:26 GMT -5
Weltz ,Overwhelming fire power wins the day.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 14, 2012 13:19:23 GMT -5
The movie theater, the spa, the mall, now a school. Not counting the shooters, that is 44 people in just a few months. I don't think you can call it a media concoction. The media concoction is making 44 sound like "a lot". How many people died in the US in those "few months"? It's not a national story every time someone dies in a car accident, even though that happens exponentially more often. Most of those stories don't make for a good media story though. It's not the epidemic the media wants to make it into. It's a tragedy for sure, but it's far from this widespread epidemic that gets played up in the media.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Dec 14, 2012 13:23:29 GMT -5
I disagree. There is a serious problem in this country that needs to be addressed. It's great to say 44 isn't a lot. That's cold comfort to parents who no longer have a child, children who no longer have a mother or father ...
How many mass shooting will it take before you consider it an epidemic? How many innocent people have to die before we acknowledge this is a problem?
ETA And I think it's very disingenuous to even try to compare a car accident to a mass shooting situation. It's not even close to an apples-to-apple comparison.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 14, 2012 13:28:19 GMT -5
::And I think it's very disingenuous to even try to compare a car accident to a mass shooting situation. It's not even close to an apples-to-apple comparison. ::
Why? Do you think people hurt less because someone they loved died being thrown from a car than shot with a gun?
::How many mass shooting will it take before you consider it an epidemic?::
I dunno, but i think it should crack the top 100 of ways people die at least.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Dec 14, 2012 13:29:21 GMT -5
::That's cold comfort to parents who no longer have a child, children who no longer have a mother or father ...::
Those people will always be crushed whenever anyone dies. The fact that anyone died is sad, but doesn't do anything to point to it being any kind of epidemic in this country.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Dec 14, 2012 13:29:28 GMT -5
Wow. I have no words.
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