spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Nov 14, 2012 9:41:52 GMT -5
My boss recently got a promotion, and I have been filling in for him for a few weeks while they go through the official process for replacing him. I've had several people ask if I will be the official replacement as well. At this point, I am thinking I would prefer to go the technical route rather than managerial (my company does offer technical jobs up to the same salary grade as a second-level manager) so I didn't apply. Even if I did want to go the managerial route, though, I would feel very unprepared at 26 with only 4 years of experience to manage a team of engineers working with technical, demanding, real-time problems. Not to mention it would be a 3 job grade promotion. Thirty or so I could see, because by the time I hit 30 I'll have twice as much experience and likely another promotion (in title, not really a different job).
I guess my question is have you seen young, relatively inexperienced managers in technical fields? Did they do well? I know there are many young managers in customer service fields that do quite well (Hi Carl!), so am I being prejudiced in how much different I think managing engineers would be?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 14, 2012 9:45:18 GMT -5
I have most definitely seen young, smart people get promoted above their abilities, and put in managers roles when they were ill-prepared to do so. I find that one of two things happen, either they hang out for a while, and then there is some regime change, and they are able to reinstate themselves, or they languish, while learning skill, irritate everyone, and then change companies for more money and a better title. It almost always benefits them in the long run, even if it is a disaster in the short run.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Nov 14, 2012 10:20:11 GMT -5
I work in manufacturing/engineering. I have seen many people be successful as managers very young and others who are not. It really depends on the personality, more than the age.
I was made a manager supervising others at the age of 25. They were non-technical people. All of my direct reports were at ~30 years older than me and had worked at the company forever. It took some adjusting, but worked out well.
You say that the open position is three grades above your current level. Depending on your company, you probably wouldn't even be considered. Work on baby-steps (one grade level at a time).
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spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Nov 14, 2012 10:51:02 GMT -5
I mentioned it to the hiring manager for the position, just in the context of "I'm hoping you announce it soon, so people stop asking me" and he asked if I was interested. That was the one that really threw me, even though I knew they already had a preferred candidate from another team. I had been telling everyone else the same thing you just said, georgiagal, no way they jump me that far. I've seen 2 job grades, but 3 is a lot. I think several of the people that asked had forgotten just how low I am, since I'm the most experienced engineer left on the team after they've moved all the 20+ year folks to other groups.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Nov 14, 2012 13:36:50 GMT -5
I've seen it, and all the ones in the technical areas crashed and burned in a blaze of glory. Most seemed to have the same problems (I work in a financial services company for reference). They couldn't be political in dealing with other managers or higher-ups. They either couldn't say no and took on far more work than they should have, or they said no but didn't account for priorities. The issues seemed to be largely social or at the people-manager level, as opposed to not having technical knowledge.
I've also seen lots in customer service fields (call centers, operations, etc). They all seemed to do well, I think largely because customer service itself is dealing with people, and those who did really well dealing with people became managers where that skill is very handy. Sales is another area I've seen young people do really well as managers.
IME it has a lot to do with what got you promoted. If you got promoted because you were amazing at your job, and your job was dealing iwth people, then getting promoted to a job that deals with people seems logical that you'd be at least decent at it.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Nov 14, 2012 14:11:01 GMT -5
I think whether or not you could be successful depends on you and your team. Teams generally like to see one of their own succeed. They can use their years of experience and knowledge to help and support a well liked young boss. Warn about upcoming deadlines, warn about potential problems with a project, share their ideas for making improvements, protect the boss when something goes wrong. Young bosses who admit they are in over their head, who are open to other people's ideas, and who are supportive of their team, who provide leadership and set a direction, tend to be well supported by their teams.
On the other hand, the old guard can blow a young boss out of the water. The old guard has lots of friends, acquaintances and supporters. If the old guard bad mouths a young boss, it will be hard for the boss to be considered successful by their peers and superiors. Even worse, the old guard can set up a boss who is not well regarded so that the boss appears incompetent.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 14, 2012 14:34:41 GMT -5
And then are they able to go to another company, say they were a brilliant manager and get another job?
That is what happens in my world - although we aren't technical. My company is full of people who have failed at really good companies at a lower level, and have come in here getting an even higher title. And because so many people are in this situation, no one can really call them out.
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spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Nov 14, 2012 14:55:48 GMT -5
I'm lucky that my company finally started to figure it out and there is a robust promotion path, which doesn't necessitate managing. We've kept a lot of talent by not forcing them to manage people to get ahead. This is huge, I think. We have a ton of folks who've tried the manager thing, didn't like it, gone back to individual contributor roles, and refuse to touch another manager position with a 10-ft pole.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2012 16:50:27 GMT -5
My wife is the one that goes by time/experience to decide if she is ready for a job or not. Basically just like you said: by 30 you think you would be ready.
I am the opposite: you offer me the job I will take it and run with it. I am not afraid of failing and while I hate it I've always come back stronger. I will do my best and learn on the job, trial and error.
On the job interview that got me this job my Zone Director asked me: when do you feel you will be ready to be a store manager. I answered that personally I feel I will be ready professional and personally in 3 years because I have a lot to learn and my goal is to be a store manager by 30; but if they offer me the job sooner than that I would not refuse it.
I feel you can always step down if you need too, but the opportunities to step up are few for most.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2012 16:52:48 GMT -5
Do it how everyone does it. Fake it till you make it.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Nov 14, 2012 17:15:27 GMT -5
I guess my question is have you seen young, relatively inexperienced managers in technical fields? Did they do well?Yes, I currently work for a younger manager - who when he accepted the move to management had so-so technical skills. He doesn't need cutting edge technical skills - he's got 5 experienced technical people reporting to him who know how to do their jobs. He needs to have management/people skills and to be the 'face' for our group to the non technical people we support. He's a great manager - he was alittle rough on the management skills when he started but he's really come along in the last 7 years. He knows just enough technical stuff to be dangerous. - he listens to us and trusts our judgement. He makes sure we do our jobs and keeps up what we're working on. He steps up to the plate and provides the Authority we need when dealing with users or other managers in the firm. He's got the right personality for management. So, I guess it comes down to what it is a 'manager' is expected to do - manage a team OR tell the team what and how to do their job. In a perfect world - someone managing technical people should be able to do it even if they didn't have technical skills - that's what the technical team members are for... the manager needs to cultivate a good group of employees. Management of other types of jobs might be different. In my experience with technical people you are harnessing their knowledge, creativity, and resourcefulness versus inspiring them to keep cranking out 250 widgets an hour. There's a difference in management styles there... I don't ever want to be a manager so I've stayed on the technical side and I appreciate a manager who does manager stuff (and not technical stuff). Cause if my manager wants to do my job for me - I might as well not come to work.
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spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Nov 14, 2012 17:30:08 GMT -5
Yeah. The group I'm in right now consists of me, with 4 years, and 4 people with less than 1 year - with the price of natural gas so low, most people have been shifted into oil assets. The manager would be expected to do technical assurance in addition to all the personnel stuff. I've considered several times whether not having any senior engineers would be a benefit or a hindrance. It would be much easier to let go of the technical stuff with senior engineers, but much more intimidating to do the personnel side. We'll still be pretty young, even with the new manager. The guy I think they're going to announce is around 30, I think.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Nov 14, 2012 17:32:24 GMT -5
::And then are they able to go to another company, say they were a brilliant manager and get another job?::
Most that I know from my own company ended up going to other companies and stepping back down to their former roles. They couldn't even step down within our company because they'd alienated so many people here. Though I think in many cases it was a choice to move back down because they'd lost their mind in the manager role and had no desire to try it again.
::Yes, I currently work for a younger manager - who when he accepted the move to management had so-so technical skills. He doesn't need cutting edge technical skills - he's got 5 experienced technical people reporting to him who know how to do their jobs. He needs to have management/people skills and to be the 'face' for our group to the non technical people we support.::
In our world the best technical managers we have came from customer service. They focus on the people aspect. You don't have a manager who "used to be good at tech" second-guessing everyone. They leave the technical stuff to the experts, and they use their own expertise in managing people inside and outside their team to everyone's benefit.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Nov 14, 2012 17:45:02 GMT -5
In our world the best technical managers we have came from customer service. They focus on the people aspect. You don't have a manager who "used to be good at tech" second-guessing everyone. They leave the technical stuff to the experts, and they use their own expertise in managing people inside and outside their team to everyone's benefit. Reminds me of the Herding Cats commercial. A manager who's got the 'people person' thing down can be a huge asset. They know how to say 'no' without alienating the people they are working for.
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