Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Oct 29, 2012 14:47:15 GMT -5
We see where we are heading. How do we go about adjusting to a lower standard of living? Why lower our standard of living? Why not just put in protectionist policies that incentive companies to return jobs to the US?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 29, 2012 14:47:42 GMT -5
We already are. Multi-family homes are being built at a much faster rate than single family. More people are living in multi-generational households. People work two and three jobs, while having elderly relatives watch the kids because they can't afford daycare. You know how illegals live when they come here and send money back home? 8-10 people in a two bedroom house, all sharing a couple of cars. Most of us could be living that way pretty soon. Compared to being working class in Uganda, it'll be pretty awesome, compared to being working class in previous American periods it's going to suck.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 29, 2012 14:51:17 GMT -5
Money. You think the lobbyists for GE give a shit about your standard of living? Hell no. They care about what's best for GE's bottom line. And what's best for GE's bottom line is toasters made in Tadzhikistan. Now, guess who has more pull with Congress; the lobbyists for GE or your average American schmuck?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 14:52:15 GMT -5
Pick me pick me pick me! I know the answer. ;D
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 29, 2012 14:53:07 GMT -5
LOL!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 14:57:15 GMT -5
Everything is the lobbyists' fault
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 29, 2012 14:57:41 GMT -5
We see where we are heading. How do we go about adjusting to a lower standard of living? Why lower our standard of living? Why not just put in protectionist policies that incentive companies to return jobs to the US? Not sustainable, I'm afraid. Part of what raised the overall standard of living for Americans over the past several decades has been that we've enjoyed the benefits of both. We manufactured at home and also were able to source certain things inexpensively from overseas on a selective basis. That created a standard of living that is, IMHO, not sustainable as globalization progresses. We'll need to choose between being able to "create" jobs through protectionism, in which case the standard of living will decline because everything is so much more expensive or continuing down the path of equalization with the globe, which will mean a temporary erosion of jobs here and decreased standard of living until it's all more equal and it makes economic sense again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 15:04:30 GMT -5
Everything is the lobbyists' fault We have get rid of those lobbyists. We use to have lobbyists for people not for personal greed or the company. I guess, can be same things.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 15:09:31 GMT -5
Everything is the lobbyists' fault We have get rid of those lobbyists. We use to have lobbyists for people not for personal greed or the company. I guess, can be same things. It is ridiculous. I know I'm a little disillusioned from watching it in action, but it is not at all what I envisioned democracy to be. We elect representatives, not lobbyists... And sure, if a representative proves him or herself to be in someone's pocket, we can throw the bum out... but often the damage is already done.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 29, 2012 15:09:50 GMT -5
It wouldn't matter. The way it would actually work is that we'd create the something, but we'd have it produced overseas because it's more cost effective that way. Even if we have to export the tools necessary to produce the thing, and train them on how to operate them. It would create a tiny handful of jobs here, although they'd all be really high paying since they'd be the company owners, and a crap ton of jobs in China because a half starved rural Chinese rice farmer will always be willing to work for less than an educated American.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 15:16:38 GMT -5
We have get rid of those lobbyists. We use to have lobbyists for people not for personal greed or the company. I guess, can be same things. It is ridiculous. I know I'm a little disillusioned from watching it in action, but it is not at all what I envisioned democracy to be. We elect representatives, not lobbyists... mid, Your elect representatives is influenced by lobbyist. but it is not at all what I envisioned democracy to be.
Sometimes I wonder that myself.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 15:20:54 GMT -5
Wait, what?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 15:23:37 GMT -5
You know the answer. Because, you are smart. ;D
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 15:38:06 GMT -5
You know the answer. Because, you are smart. ;D I'm not trying to be rude, but I seriously have no idea what you said in #580. I thought I was agreeing with you...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 15:49:53 GMT -5
You know the answer. Because, you are smart. ;D I'm not trying to be rude, but I seriously have no idea what you said in #580. I thought I was agreeing with you... mid, Sorry, then. ;D I like your quick mind and I love smart young people. I get sadden by what they have to face in their future. High tax and high debt. I am not saying it will happens all at once. But the country is in pretty big trouble. Again, If I misunderstood you, I apologize.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Oct 29, 2012 15:56:43 GMT -5
I heard an interesting thing on the radio (This American Life???) talking about how it isn't the lobbyists, it's politicians. After all, the politicians are the ones who need the money to run their campaigns. Companies are giving money to both sides because they need to have an "in" with whoever is elected. So it isn't companies who are deciding, "Hey, we need to budget 50K to govt because we want pull." It's "Our rep just called and if we don't give 50K he's going to vote against our interests." It really made sense to me - why would companies WANT to give money to politicians unless politicians were forcing them to?
Which course proves better depends on your definition of temporary. I can see it taking several hundred years before global equilibrium occurs. Actually, unless we adopt a global govt to oversee all the factors that affect capitalism I don't see how it will ever occur.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 15:57:24 GMT -5
OK now I'm really confused. I thought we were talking about how lobbyists suck? But if we agree on that, we're all set And thanks for the compliments. I think in the long run things will be fine... the pendulum always swings too far before it comes back to center. We may have to put some austerity measures into place, but I think that might be a good wake-up call to our leaders.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 29, 2012 16:03:04 GMT -5
Very interesting. I think it's a little of both, and sort of a chicken-and-egg issue.
Or, kind of like the doping scandals. If EVERYONE else is using HGH, you'd be stupid not to - because of course you're going to lose.
If everyone else has a lobbyist funding their campaign, and you don't, you'd better get one or you're going to lose the election. (And from the lobbyist angle - if every competitor has a politician in their pocket, you'd be stupid not to get your own).
I'm not sure how you solve it. Obviously in a representative democracy you have the right to talk to your elected official and express your views. And you have the right to donate to the candidates you feel are best for your business. You can't really restrict that. OTOH, when the only "voices" the candidate hears are the ones with dollar signs attached, that's not really keeping in line with the principles on which our country was founded.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 29, 2012 16:19:23 GMT -5
Monarchy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 16:23:43 GMT -5
OK now I'm really confused. I thought we were talking about how lobbyists suck? But if we agree on that, we're all set And thanks for the compliments. I think in the long run things will be fine... the pendulum always swings too far before it comes back to center. We may have to put some austerity measures into place, but I think that might be a good wake-up call to our leaders. O K, mid. You take care. I have a mind moves all different direction in same time. It's can be good things most of the times. But same time, it confuse many people that I know. Everything will work out just fine for many of you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 16:24:33 GMT -5
dark,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 17:57:18 GMT -5
I applied for another job today. This one is $8 hr with no benefits.
I did the math and for losing my healthcare access I would gross about $1200 a month if it is full-time. I know it is nights, weekends, and holidays, but no mention of full or part time.
Gas will cost me about $12 a day, if it stays around $4.25 a gallon. So, figure less than $900 before I pay any taxes, SS, etc... in payroll deductions.
For about $700 a month in income, which I cannot support us on without the SS payment, so I will have to move on before next June, I will lose our health coverage.
Or, I could stay working as a freelancer, make about $600 a month and keep our coverage.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 30, 2012 8:42:32 GMT -5
How long will that work for you? I think you've stated at some point when your youngest ages out you will no longer have your coverage.
If I remember correctly, you've mentioned you attempted to price private policies and could not get anything for less than 2200 per month due to pre-existing conditions. That's over 26K a year in equivalent costs to an employer or roughly $12 an hour. Add that to the $8/hr which seem to be all employers around you are offering and you cost them $20/hr just to hire you. What skill set do you have, or demand exists for employees is there in your area, which will generate a job that an employer will be willing to cover that type of base cost?
I guess the bigger question is - Are there any employers around you offering full time work with benefits? If not, then what is your long term plan since you know eventually your youngest will age out?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Oct 30, 2012 9:55:34 GMT -5
Captain- IIRC- Shasta lives in a very small mountain community with limited employment options. Maybe confusing her with another poster though.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 30, 2012 9:58:16 GMT -5
Well, just like Cawaiis employee. At some point, regardless of the outcome, benefits will simply stop, and those who work will eat and those who don't, won't. So those who are afraid of losing bennies if they work will lose them anyway so will work and maybe work two jobs in order to live. As it should be. No one is entitled to the fruits of another's labor.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 30, 2012 10:05:34 GMT -5
Amen. If YOU want to support those who choose not to support themselves, that is YOUR choice. I have no issue with supporting the mentally ill in institutions to care for them, which there would be money for that if we weren't supporting deadbeats. I have no problem supporting those who through no fault of their own, are physically unable to work, either. The rest can go fish.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 10:14:09 GMT -5
Captain- IIRC- Shasta lives in a very small mountain community with limited employment options. Maybe confusing her with another poster though. maybe, just maybe, it is time to move to an area that has more opportunities then if there are no jobs, and no chance of that changing, why stay?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 30, 2012 10:15:24 GMT -5
Ooh, your gonna get flamed for that one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2012 10:18:44 GMT -5
i have family members doing the same damn thing
my sister live in sw part of virginia.....bfe as i like to call it
there is NOTHING there.....except family
she complains that there are no jobs, or opportunities there
i understand that you dont want to leave your roots, and where you are comfortable
but when push comes to shove....you have to eat....and you need wages to do so.....
the bottom line is what is more important......family or supporting oneself
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Oct 30, 2012 10:50:53 GMT -5
I'm too lazy to verify this so if his teacher sold him a load of crap so be it. DS was making small talk yesterday on the way home from school. He told me his German teacher told the class that the best job currently in Spain was as a German Teacher. It seems Spain's unemployment rate is very high and Germany's is pretty low (like 20+% vs 4%) So if his teacher is in fact not blowing smoke up their butts- you have a large group of people, learning a different language and moving to a foreign country to better their chances of employment. I know very few Americans that would be willing to move to the next town, county or even state
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