Undocumented GED barrier...

[Driftr]

Oct 17, 2012 12:18:17 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

My God! They're everywhere!

And they now get to press 3 for Arabic.

www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=11720

[workpublic]

they should get questioned because we are at war with people who look like that. ;D

but seriously crafty. i've laid out my plan to deal with the problem.

you disagree. i can respect that.

what's your plan to deal with the problem?

do you believe there is a problem?

[Deleted]

I think it is suspicious that mom is a Rasheed Wallace fan.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2012 12:34:16 GMT -5 workpublic said:

they should get questioned because we are at war with people who look like that. ;D

look like what? little girls?

I know people are down on Detroit, but I thought we stopped short of declaring war on them.

[workpublic]

out of all your photos. i think the piston fans should be pulled out of line at an airport before the others.

[workpublic]

look like what? little girls?

no the father.

see my ETA. i was being jocular.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2012 12:16:40 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

Careful, these folks in middle America look like they're not from around here. Better round 'em up.

LOL

People in middle America (in this case Cleveland) don't celebrate St. Patrick's Day?...why it appears that they do.

Forget all this profiling stuff, I would just go after the employers (construction, hospitality, landscaping, agriculture, janitorial, meat packing and processing, etc.) and fine them to the brink of bankruptcy for knowingly and repeatedly flaunting laws against hiring illegals. As it stands the maximum fine is $11k per illegal…I would raise that to 100k per illegal.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2012 12:38:47 GMT -5 workpublic said:

out of all your photos. i think the piston fans should be pulled out of line at an airport before the others.

And that is where we cross the line to racist and in violation of the 14th Amendment.

[Deleted]

workpublic, I have laid out my views for 5 pages now, thought I have acknowledged that I don't have all of the answers. In general, I think Robert is on to something with going after employers. As long as there are jobs, people will come here to fill them.

(And I also think we need to streamline and clarify immigration law. There are a lot of people whose residency status is illegal because they came here legally but didn't understand what they needed to do to maintain their legal status. Some people willfully break the law and there should be consequences for that, but I've dealt with the federal government. They suck at making forms. It took me 2 tries to fill out my passport application correctly. We should help the people who come here legally to understand the rules so they can comply with them)

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2012 11:41:25 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Oct 17, 2012 10:24:36 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

By suggesting that your system might be racist, I assume you are proposing that we only target people with brown skin in your profiling. So yes, that would be racist.

It would also miss at least a third of the undocumented workers in the U.S. (depending on your standards for brownness).

Damn, I knew I was missing something ealier...that's right! Nazi's AND racists!

You have clearly won the argument by comparing those who simply want our laws enforced with the above two categories...

Godwin's Law has been invoked...Sarah, You Lose!


BTW, Sarah, why have you not gone after my post about making employers verify employment information per the federally mandated I-9 form...Or did you realize you don't have a defense for that one?

[workpublic]

And that is where we cross the line to racist and in violation of the 14th Amendment.

why? are there irish and austrians radicals at war with us too?


I also agree with robert's stance(and I think that the employers are not all republicans, some of them are democrats and independents ;D. cause greed, selfishness, criminality and scumbaggery are not exclusive to just one party). so you and I at least agree on that.

[The Captain]

Oct 17, 2012 12:34:16 GMT -5 workpublic said:

they should get questioned because we are at war with people who look like that. ;D

but seriously crafty. i've laid out my plan to deal with the problem.

you disagree. i can respect that.

what's your plan to deal with the problem?

do you believe there is a problem?

I am willing to bet those that think nothing should be done:

1. Have never been in an car accident where the other driver was at fault, couldn't speak English, had no insurance, and was allowed to leave without a ticket becuase they were judgement proof.

2. Have not seen their public school system get over-burdended with non English speaking students on whom disproportionate resources are spent in order to meet NCLB only to see 25% or more drop out before graduating HS.

3. Have not had a relative who's medical identity was stolen (putting her health at risk due to now mixed up records regarding drug allergies) in order to get "free" medical care.

No, of course there's no problem. It's ok to break the law and put others at risk because of course, you have rights...

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2012 12:54:56 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Oct 17, 2012 11:41:25 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Damn, I knew I was missing something ealier...that's right! Nazi's AND racists!

You have clearly won the argument by comparing those who simply want our laws enforced with the above two categories...

Godwin's Law has been invoked...Sarah, You Lose!


BTW, Sarah, why have you not gone after my post about making employers verify employment information per the federally mandated I-9 form...Or did you realize you don't have a defense for that one?

Several points...

(a) If you are familiar with Godwin's Law, it states that the first one to invoke Hitler or the Nazis automatially concedes the argument. I did not invoke the Nazis - as evidenced by your quote, thecaptain did. So, you have actually provided proof of my victory in your "gotcha" moment.

(b) I have not responded to one of your posts because you made a lot of posts that were only tangentially related to what Tony and I were arguing about. I don't have any problem with employers verifying right to work status with an I-9. As noted above, I agree with solution strategies that include going after employers. I think you have misinterpretted my views. By thinking that a path to citizenship is part of the answer, I do not believe in automatically granting citizenship to all, throwing open our borders, or eliminating consequences and penalties for workers or their employers.

Are there other words you would like to put in my mouth?

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2012 13:03:41 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Oct 17, 2012 12:34:16 GMT -5 workpublic said:

they should get questioned because we are at war with people who look like that. ;D

but seriously crafty. i've laid out my plan to deal with the problem.

you disagree. i can respect that.

what's your plan to deal with the problem?

do you believe there is a problem?

I am willing to bet those that think nothing should be done:

1. Have never been in an car accident where the other driver was at fault, couldn't speak English, had no insurance, and was allowed to leave without a ticket becuase they were judgement proof.

2. Have not seen their public school system get over-burdended with non English speaking students on whom disproportionate resources are spent in order to meet NCLB only to see 25% or more drop out before graduating HS.

3. Have not had a relative who's medical identity was stolen (putting her health at risk due to now mixed up records regarding drug allergies) in order to get "free" medical care.

No, of course there's no problem. It's ok to break the law and put others at risk because of course, you have rights...

Who on this thread suggested that there was no problem? Who said nothing should be done?

Have you read the thread, cap'n?

[workpublic]

workpublic, I have laid out my views for 5 pages now.

i apologize. i got the drift that you didn't have any plan or idea on the problem besides being anti do something/anything to try to stem the problem. so you think we should go after the few who benefit at the detriment of the many(employers/landlords/etc). I do too. imho they are greedy traitors.

[Phoenix84]

Oct 17, 2012 12:52:04 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

workpublic, I have laid out my views for 5 pages now, thought I have acknowledged that I don't have all of the answers. In general, I think Robert is on to something with going after employers. As long as there are jobs, people will come here to fill them.

(And I also think we need to streamline and clarify immigration law. There are a lot of people whose residency status is illegal because they came here legally but didn't understand what they needed to do to maintain their legal status. Some people willfully break the law and there should be consequences for that, but I've dealt with the federal government. They suck at making forms. It took me 2 tries to fill out my passport application correctly. We should help the people who come here legally to understand the rules so they can comply with them)

I support making the immigration process easier/faster/more streamlined. I've read articles about many talented academics who want to come here but are forced to wait because of immigration.

Legal immigration is good for America. And America is still the shining city on the hill. We should be pludering the world's talent.

So I actually agree with you on that account that legal immigration could be made easier.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Look the first step to finding the 10 million or so illegals currently in the country is easy. We wait another 6 months to a year, then go through all the Dream Act applications. Every one of them self identified as being here illegally, so all the ones without a high school diploma or military service get a hearing in front of a judge to double check their immigrations status, then a bus/plane ticket home.

After that you go after the problem with E-verify. Make it a nationwide requirement that every single employee in every single business in the country will be run through E-Verify. If a business hires somebody without doing so they're fined $100k and have their business license revoked for a period of seven days, on the first offense. The second time they do it, their business license is revoked permanently. Businesses like cheap labor, but not enough to put their business at risk like that.

Third, you require people to provide proof of citizenship or immigration status to access any publicly funded institution. School, hospitals, welfare offices, registering to vote, planned parenthood, anywhere that accepts any public money should be required to make sure they're only spending it on those that here legally.

Fourth, I would set up a hotline where those in the country illegally could self report, and get a free bus/plane ticket home, and an appointment with the immigration office in their home country to get in line to come back legally. Sort of a helping hand with self deportation. It would be pretty heartless to take away all job opportunities, all welfare services, all educational opportunities, and not offer a path back home.

See, I'm not totally heartless.

Oh, and in the 6 months to a year that we're waiting to make these changes, we beef up security at the border to stop the flow so we can go after the root problem.

There ya go, a 5 point plan. Those seem to be all the rage right now.

[TonyTiger]

Oct 16, 2012 9:48:20 GMT -5 TonyTiger said:

Oct 16, 2012 9:29:16 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

If only it was so easy to get rid of intolerant jackholes.

Agreed.

People who side with Illegal Aliens over their own countrymen are, indeed, problematic.

It seemed timely, to recap this little gem...

[Deleted]

Oct 16, 2012 17:30:46 GMT -5 @craftysarah said:

Oct 16, 2012 16:49:18 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Sarah - your argument defending you belief is lame and you know it. Because rather than providing proof, you start being overtly patronizing.

You are acting like a five year old with your antics of "I'm right because I said so and if you disagree, you're a doody-head!"

Really? Challenge my argument then, foodie. Why do you consider border security more important than the Bill of Rights?

What feasible, legal solutions to illegal immigration would you propose?


And seriously... doody-head? I think my insults are generally more sophisticated than that. You mistake me for someone who would say "doody-head" when I am actually the type to say "what would you have us do - round up all of the illegal immigrants and send them to the same magical island where we send the slutty Catholic school teachers?"

Also, speaking of putting words in someone's mouth, I never name called the teacher, nice try, but an epic fail on your part - it was people like you who disagreed with me put words in my mouth that I never said.

And furthermore, I have been a big supporter of the teacher and have, in fact, offered to go to the school and make copies and do other tasks for her in my free time and during my lunch hours multiple times already this year.

[TonyTiger]

And how soon do we think it's gonna be before the 14th Amendment is re-interpreted by the Supreme Court to disallow the 'Anchor Baby' aberration? The 14th keeps getting thrown in the faces of those opposing the rewarding of citizenship to Illegal Aliens and their offspring but at some point or another the sheer number of Anchors is going to be soooo frigging huge that we will be obliged to undertake such a re-interpreting in order to bulldoze-over that barrier and give our enforcement peeps the legal weapons they need to do the job properly. With any luck, Fearless Leader's recent Congress-free coup - implementing various DREAM Act -like accommodations for Illegals by Imperial Decree rather than the consent of the Congress - will be repealed and even reversed in the not too distant future, but even if President Barack Obama, a man I deeply admire, wins the November election and gets another four years, by then, the nation will be soooo disillusioned and soooo tired of the Tiny-Tim-Everything-for-Everybody Approach, that some hard-ass or another will get the job next, and see to it that the 14th is given 'another look' as one device in a series designed to turn things around. Resistance is not futile. Quite probably, time is on the side of the large number of Americans who have grown sick and tired of this plague of Illegals and want them sent packing for home. One need merely 'hold the line' and prevent any further large-scale erosion and accommodations while awaiting better times and more dedicated and courageous leadership.

[zibazinski]

dark.

[TonyTiger]

Agreed - , Dark - quite reasonable and even demonstrating some considerable goodwill and humanitarianism under the circumstances. I'd consider waiting until after the Presidential Inauguration in January, and then, if we have a new Fearless Leader, send your outline to a half-dozen or more bigshots in relevant positions of authority... meanwhile... not bad, man... not bad at all... ;D

[Phoenix84]

Well Said Dark. A sound plan, better than I articulated.

The key is to ensure they cannot get the benefits that come with citizenship. They can't enroll their kids in school, they can't get a job, they can't go to a hospital to have a baby or get medical treatment without their illegalness (if I can coin such a word) from being discovered, and they certainly can't get any government assistance. No WIC, no welfare, no unemployment nothing.

I like Dark's suggestion about rewarding people who self report with being placed back in the queue to be considered for legal immigration status.

And I think repealing the 14th amendment will help immensely too. It was passed during a different time and it's outlived it's usefulness.

You're not an American unless one of your parents is I say.

[workpublic]

agree with Dark's articulation. spot on. well done.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2012 13:51:44 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Look the first step to finding the 10 million or so illegals currently in the country is easy. We wait another 6 months to a year, then go through all the Dream Act applications. Every one of them self identified as being here illegally, so all the ones without a high school diploma or military service get a hearing in front of a judge to double check their immigrations status, then a bus/plane ticket home.

After that you go after the problem with E-verify. Make it a nationwide requirement that every single employee in every single business in the country will be run through E-Verify. If a business hires somebody without doing so they're fined $100k and have their business license revoked for a period of seven days, on the first offense. The second time they do it, their business license is revoked permanently. Businesses like cheap labor, but not enough to put their business at risk like that.

Third, you require people to provide proof of citizenship or immigration status to access any publicly funded institution. School, hospitals, welfare offices, registering to vote, planned parenthood, anywhere that accepts any public money should be required to make sure they're only spending it on those that here legally.

Fourth, I would set up a hotline where those in the country illegally could self report, and get a free bus/plane ticket home, and an appointment with the immigration office in their home country to get in line to come back legally. Sort of a helping hand with self deportation. It would be pretty heartless to take away all job opportunities, all welfare services, all educational opportunities, and not offer a path back home.

See, I'm not totally heartless.

Oh, and in the 6 months to a year that we're waiting to make these changes, we beef up security at the border to stop the flow so we can go after the root problem.

There ya go, a 5 point plan. Those seem to be all the rage right now.

Dark 4 Prez!

[Driftr]

How about Dark for Immigration Tsar?

[billisonboard]

Oct 17, 2012 13:51:44 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

...

... If a business hires somebody without doing so they're fined $100k and have their business license revoked for a period of seven days, on the first offense. The second time they do it, their business license is revoked permanently. Businesses like cheap labor, but not enough to put their business at risk like that.

Personally, I support prison time for CEO's. Ten years without parole should do it.

Third, you require people to provide proof of citizenship or immigration status to access any publicly funded institution. School, hospitals, welfare offices, registering to vote, planned parenthood, anywhere that accepts any public money should be required to make sure they're only spending it on those that here legally.

I was born and raised in this country. I am not sure that I have proof of citizenship that I could show if asked. How would this work for me?

Fourth, I would set up a hotline where those in the country illegally could self report, and get a free bus/plane ticket home, and an appointment with the immigration office in their home country to get in line to come back legally. ...

Come for a vacation, call for free transportation home, and get help coming back. Hmmm, what could be wrong with that.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2012 15:16:21 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Well Said Dark. A sound plan, better than I articulated.

The key is to ensure they cannot get the benefits that come with citizenship. They can't enroll their kids in school, they can't get a job, they can't go to a hospital to have a baby or get medical treatment without their illegalness (if I can coin such a word) from being discovered, and they certainly can't get any government assistance. No WIC, no welfare, no unemployment nothing.

I like Dark's suggestion about rewarding people who self report with being placed back in the queue to be considered for legal immigration status.

And I think repealing the 14th amendment will help immensely too. It was passed during a different time and it's outlived it's usefulness.

You're not an American unless one of your parents is I say.

Tony brought up citizenship for all persons born in this country (I won't use his term). I was referencing the Equal Protection Clause.

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

I'd just assume keep that, thanks.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2012 15:46:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Oct 17, 2012 13:51:44 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Third, you require people to provide proof of citizenship or immigration status to access any publicly funded institution. School, hospitals, welfare offices, registering to vote, planned parenthood, anywhere that accepts any public money should be required to make sure they're only spending it on those that here legally.

I was born and raised in this country. I am not sure that I have proof of citizenship that I could show if asked. How would this work for me?

You don't have a passport? How about a combination of a drivers license and either a birth certificate or a social security card?

[billisonboard]

Oct 17, 2012 15:58:21 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Oct 17, 2012 15:46:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

You don't have a passport? How about a combination of a drivers license and either a birth certificate or a social security card?

The majority of Americans don't have passports. So a driver's license and birth certificate/SS card will be acceptable forms of ID to prove citizenship? Certainly be easier to just issue a citizenship card that we could show whenever it is demanded of us.