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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 12:07:48 GMT -5
What is wrong with wanting girls to learn feminine skills? -------------- What are these feminine skills you speak of? It doesn't take a lot of skill to wear a dress. It does take skill to feel comfortable in a dress. I couldn't do it. Can you? .... really?
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andreawick
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Post by andreawick on Oct 3, 2012 12:10:21 GMT -5
I agree with some of what Steve and MoneyJenny have said.
A lot of adult women complain they can't find "good men" ....the problem is a lot of people don't raise their kids to be "men"
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 12:11:44 GMT -5
Ok. I am a very girly-girl. I am as far from being a feminist as I can be. I love my dresses. But even I have to ask what skill can be attained by wearing a dress.
The only one I can think of is learning to discreetly keep in down during a high wind.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 3, 2012 12:12:40 GMT -5
Wearing a dress is NOT a skill. Cooking and sewing and ironing are. Would you discourage your male children from learning these skills? I hope not.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 12:15:55 GMT -5
I agree with some of what Steve and MoneyJenny have said. A lot of adult women complain they can't find "good men" ....the problem is a lot of people don't raise their kids to be "men" I don't see these two things even remotely related. I have dated some terrible mama's boys. They wouldn't ever be caught dead in anything remotely feminine but weren't real men to me because it seemed like they wanted more of a maid and a mother than a true partner in a relationship. I am not sure how letting some kid wear wings has anything to do with them turning out to be a man.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 12:16:09 GMT -5
I agree with some of what Steve and MoneyJenny have said. A lot of adult women complain they can't find "good men" ....the problem is a lot of people don't raise their kids to be "men" What is involved in teaching a boy to be a man? Everyone benefits from being honest, hard working, compassionate and true to their word. The qualities that make someone a bad woman or a bad man are pretty much unisex.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Oct 3, 2012 12:16:21 GMT -5
Crap. You mean DD isn't going to be a pirate? What does that even mean?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 3, 2012 12:22:58 GMT -5
No...thinking that wearing dresses once a week makes a girl grow up into a capable young adult is what's strange. Cause that's what I think? Take one thing and say that is what caused something else years later is silly most of the time. Taking one thing and saying that is a part makes more sense. What is wrong with wanting girls to learn feminine skills? Feminine skills? Pray tell, what are feminine skills? I didn't realize there was a set of skills that had a gender limit.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 3, 2012 12:24:50 GMT -5
What is involved in teaching a boy to be a man? ------------- Well, evidently, keeping him out of dresses, for one....
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Oct 3, 2012 12:25:13 GMT -5
I feel a case of the vapors coming on. Where's a "good man" to catch me if I faint?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 12:27:22 GMT -5
I know you didn't quote my post but I certainly wasn't saying you were "anti-feminist". I was just wondering what skills you think are attained by wearing a dress. I don't think there is one thing wrong with girls looking like girls and boys looking like boys. I think you are wrong, tho, about a woman fitting in better wearing a dress. As I said, I wear dresses alot, but I'd fit in just as well in dress pants and a jacket. A dress is simply my preference. If a lady in a dress is your preference, that's fine. I know a lot of men like that. Just please don't try to make your girls think they have to wear dresses to fit in anywhere, k? Good for you!
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andreawick
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Post by andreawick on Oct 3, 2012 12:27:23 GMT -5
What is involved in teaching a boy to be a man? Everyone benefits from being honest, hard working, compassionate and true to their word. The qualities that make someone a bad woman or a bad man are pretty much unisex. So are you attracted to effeminate men? Nothing wrong with effeminate men, but there lives are probably harder. My older sister had two girls before a son. She dressed them in bows and such. She dressed her boy as a boy. All grew up to be fine adults. If she put crew cuts on the girls and bows on the boy, something would be different.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 12:27:28 GMT -5
Wearing a dress is NOT a skill. Cooking and sewing and ironing are. Would you discourage your male children from learning these skills? I hope not. Being comfortable in certain social situations is definitely a skill. A woman wearing a dress fits in better in certain situations then if she were wearing pants. Same for a guy in a suit fitting in better then a guy with no jacket and tie in some situations. You want to paint me as some anti-feminist which I am not. I would be happy if I had boys and they learned to sew. I would be happy if my girls wanted to work on cars. I don't think your an anti-feminist but I think you are putting a little too much emphasis on clothing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 12:27:52 GMT -5
Maybe he meant wiles?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 12:28:09 GMT -5
I have no problem with that idea. But I don't like how you have translated it to costumes. Costumes are not normal clothing. I don't think allowing a boy to dress up as a fairy is significantly different than allowing him to dress up as freddy kruger or harry potter. Making it off limits because somehow it makes him "less of a man" is a bad message about gender equality.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 3, 2012 12:28:10 GMT -5
As long as she was wearing a dress?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 12:30:12 GMT -5
Being honest, hard working, compassionate and true to their word makes a man effeminate ??
So REAL Men are dishonest, lazy, merciless, liars ??
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 3, 2012 12:32:10 GMT -5
What is involved in teaching a boy to be a man? Everyone benefits from being honest, hard working, compassionate and true to their word. The qualities that make someone a bad woman or a bad man are pretty much unisex. So are you attracted to effeminate men? Nothing wrong with effeminate men, but there lives are probably harder. My older sister had two girls before a son. She dressed them in bows and such. She dressed her boy as a boy. All grew up to be fine adults. If she put crew cuts on the girls and bows on the boy, something would be different. Holy cow! Being compassionate, honest and true to his word makes a man effeminate?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 3, 2012 12:33:06 GMT -5
LOL! Damn! I'm going to have to let some of my male acquaintances know they're just not behaving in a "manly way"!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 3, 2012 12:33:46 GMT -5
I guess a man who takes a woman's paycheck and smacks her around is a real man. But hey, as long as he never wore a dress as a child...
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 3, 2012 12:36:55 GMT -5
Holy cow! Being compassionate, honest and true to his word makes a man effeminate? You are not much of an honest arguer are you. I was referencing the " qualities are unisex" part of the quote. And how do those unisex qualities make a man effeminate?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 12:37:03 GMT -5
Aren't you guys going a bit overboard? I don't think that is what Steve meant at all. You are putting words in his mouth.
Who sent out the "fresh meat" alert?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 12:37:39 GMT -5
You must be mistaken. Insults get deleted.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Oct 3, 2012 12:37:43 GMT -5
I never wore dresses as a child. I was a tom-boy, and hated them.
When I grew up, I wanted to start wearing skirts to work occasionally. It was such a difficult transition. I practiced at home for weeks! Finally, I had gained the necessary dress wearing skills...
Oh wait, that's not what happened. I just bought some skirts and started wearing them.
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 3, 2012 12:37:47 GMT -5
Holy cow! Being compassionate, honest and true to his word makes a man effeminate? You are not much of an honest arguer are you. I was referencing the " qualities are unisex" part of the quote. Neither are you. The unisex qualities that were referred to are compassionate, honest, and true. Those are the ONLY unisex qualities she listed and you said that she must be attracted to effeminite men...which you had to have deduced from the qualities she listed.
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 3, 2012 12:39:33 GMT -5
I never wore dresses as a child. I was a tom-boy, and hated them. When I grew up, I wanted to start wearing skirts to work occasionally. It was such a difficult transition. I practiced at home for weeks! Finally, I had gained the necessary dress wearing skills... Oh wait, that's not what happened. I just bought some skirts and started wearing them.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 3, 2012 12:40:43 GMT -5
I guess a man who takes a woman's paycheck and smacks her around is a real man. But hey, as long as he never wore a dress as a child... Again I stated my argument . You insult. Read your post #114 again.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 3, 2012 12:45:14 GMT -5
Steve? In all fairness, saying a man is "effeminite" because he is compassionate, honest and true is insulting also.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 3, 2012 12:46:21 GMT -5
Nobody put in any words in his mouth. Somebody said that qualities like being honest, hard working, and true to your word are unisex. He responded with, "I guess you're attracted to effeminate men."
The only logical conclusion is that he thinks those qualities make a man effeminate. "Real" men are apparently supposed to be lazy, dishonest, assholes. Or, he lacks reading comprehension skills, and didn't understand the post he quoted.
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 3, 2012 12:46:57 GMT -5
Neither are you. The unisex qualities that were referred to are compassionate, honest, and true. Those are the ONLY unisex qualities she listed and you said that she must be attracted to effeminite men...which you had to have deduced from the qualities she listed. The qualities that make someone a bad woman or a bad man are pretty much unisex. No I did argue fair. The thread is on gender roles and dress.I took the bolded in context of the thread. So what quality out there would make someone a good woman if they possess it but a bad man if they did. Or what quality would make someone a good man, but a bad woman? Maybe there's one or two but the OP did state "pretty much".
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