another thread on spouses and money

[midjd]

I see what you're saying, CO... but I think whenever a post begins with "I can't figure out if my spouse is stupid or naive," some feathers are going to be ruffled (regardless of the genders involved).

[zibazinski]

Especially if you use the word LAZY.

[Peace Of Mind]

The implication is that when men fuck up housework they are idiots, but when a man wonders about his wife's naivete regarding finances he is being condescending.

It isn't implied. It's flat out stated because that's how it is!

I do the finances and the housework, laundry, etc. and DH does electrical, technical and plumbing (which I'd never even attempt because I'm smart enough to know it would be a disaster). But he can still be an idiot. It's the internet so I'm perfect!! ;D

[susanb]

Wodehouse probably didn't choose his adjectives well, but he might have good reason to be frustrated.

If my SAHS "refused" to take over the bill paying, I wouldn't be very happy. In fact, I wouldn't feel like I had a financial partner. As POM and others on the board demonstrate, you don't have to bring in an income to be a financial partner. You do, however, have to take some responsibility for money and budgeting. All of the burden shouldn't be shouldered by one person in the relationship.

If Wodehouse's wife won't take over basic tasks like paying the bills, doesn't make money and is always coming up with ideas that break their agreed upon budget/financial goals, I can see how he would be frustrated. Sometimes frustration leads to negative language.

[wodehouse]

Sept 18, 2012 14:08:34 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Sept 18, 2012 12:45:48 GMT -5 wodehouse said:

yeah, like that's the first time something like that has ever happened around here.

And I find it distasteful every time.

Yes, at least I wasn't disparaging my DW. I was looking for possible explanations.

[tskeeter]

Wode, I think you need to consider your wife's suggestions in the appropriate context.

First, you say that she doesn't know a lot about personal finance and isn't really interested in the topic. This means that she probably isn't very well informed about many aspects of personal finance. Second, with the announcement of QE3, there has been a lot of talk about interest rates, including mortgage rates, going down some more. This is enough to trigger a person whose spouse is pushing them to become more involved in the family finances to start asking questions and making suggestions.

So your wife is aware enough of the family finances to ask questions. She deserves a gold star for trying to get more involved, as you would like. However, it appears that, rather than try to teacher her more about personal finance, you choose to question her motives. Cut her some slack. It took you years to figure this stuff out, and you really wanted to learn about it. It's going to take her at least as long as it took you to get things dialed in.

I agree with the suggestion that you encourage your DW to research and analyze mortgage rates and the like. With your coaching, she will become more comfortable with the analysis process and have a better understanding of the decision process. You may find that, given a chance, your wife is actually a better long term portfolio manager than you are. (Women's tendency to avoid unnecessary risk and to take advice from others often makes them better portfolio managers than men.)

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"By tossing the research back into her lap, you're giving her the ability to understand how YOU reached the conclusions that you've reached.":::...

This is also the key to determining just how important her ideas really are to her. Its easy to get excited and demanding about something when you don't have to do the work to make it happen. If she herself isn't willing to do the work, then how important is it, really?

She may also be getting upset BECAUSE her ideas are not necessarily practical. Its certainly frustrating to toss out an idea that sounds good in your head, but have someone point out that it isn't as good as it seemed. But there is definitely an art to doing so, especially with your spouse.

If I think DW is pushing for something that is unreasonable, I try to ask questions to prompt her to discover why on her own. Sometimes I learn something different in the process. Other time, she comes to the conclusion all on her own.

[Deleted]

"Wode, I think you need to consider your wife's suggestions in the appropriate context.

First, you say that she doesn't know a lot about personal finance and isn't really interested in the topic. This means that she probably isn't very well informed about many aspects of personal finance. Second, with the announcement of QE3, there has been a lot of talk about interest rates, including mortgage rates, going down some more. This is enough to trigger a person whose spouse is pushing them to become more involved in the family finances to start asking questions and making suggestions.

So your wife is aware enough of the family finances to ask questions. She deserves a gold star for trying to get more involved, as you would like. However, it appears that, rather than try to teacher her more about personal finance, you choose to question her motives. Cut her some slack. It took you years to figure this stuff out, and you really wanted to learn about it. It's going to take her at least as long as it took you to get things dialed in.

I agree with the suggestion that you encourage your DW to research and analyze mortgage rates and the like. With your coaching, she will become more comfortable with the analysis process and have a better understanding of the decision process. You may find that, given a chance, your wife is actually a better long term portfolio manager than you are. (Women's tendency to avoid unnecessary risk and to take advice from others often makes them better portfolio managers than men.)"



I agree. There's been a lot in the news about potential changes and perhaps she just needs to double-check that the analysis you went through should be re-visited. Be patient and show her the analysis you went through and walk her through the process by changing the numbers by .25, .50 so she understands how you reached the conclusion you did and at what break point does it make sense to refinance et cetera.

[8 Bit WWBG]

I thought about this when my DW mentioned a car lease. Boy did I go into automatic "shoot down" mode. I tried to make sure I was presenting the supporting facts (like how the artificially low monthly payment is probably offset by a large down payment, and how you end up getting fleeced with fees when its time to turn the car in). But I couldn't help but have a bit of the "this is a stupid idea" tone in my voice.

It wasn't so much intended to be a commentary on my DW's smarts. But leasing is for people who can write it off as a business expense, who need a very short term ownership, or who just plain simply absolutely will buy a new car every 2 or 3 years.

[zibazinski]

Yup.

[8 Bit WWBG]

Indeed.

[wodehouse]

What is it we are all agreeing to?


FWIW, DW is not stupid in general. Nor is she not knowledgeable in personal finance (she may be uninterested); she handled the finances in her first marriage.

But I find it disconcerting, no, frustrating, that we agree on one path and on occasion she will throw a wrench in things that may cost literally thousands of dollars and I'm to "fix it". But that was not the point of my original post.

[Deleted]

she handled the finances in her first marriage.

Did she and her first spouse fight over finances? If they did that might be why you guys are having trouble communicating on the topic.

[Deleted]

Or she is doing it for the entertainment value of watching him get all worked up

[susanb]

Sept 19, 2012 13:20:21 GMT -5 wodehouse said:

What is it we are all agreeing to?


FWIW, DW is not stupid in general. Nor is she not knowledgeable in personal finance (she may be uninterested); she handled the finances in her first marriage.

But I find it disconcerting, no, frustrating, that we agree on one path and on occasion she will throw a wrench in things that may cost literally thousands of dollars and I'm to "fix it". But that was not the point of my original post.

I know you said that she doesn't pay the bills and increases your hassles by changing financial plans.

What about her other roles? Do you feel like you have a fair or reasonable division of labor in your relationship?

[wodehouse]

Sept 19, 2012 14:26:15 GMT -5 susanb said:

What about her other roles? Do you feel like you have a fair or reasonable division of labor in your relationship?

ooohhhhh, I'm not stepping there!

[susanb]

I don't blame you, but I was actually on your side! I can't imagine refusing to pay the bills if I didn't work outside the home. DH and I both work, but he works more hours than I do, and I take on the grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning (with the help of a cleaning service), bill paying, yard work, buy Christmas gifts for his family, schedule doctor's appointments, etc....

He works and takes out the garbage. Period.

I am still getting the good end of the deal and have a lot more free time than he does, but I know different people have different divisions of labor that work for them.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2012 14:20:55 GMT -5 @celtophile said:

There seems to be a double standard being applied to the spouse (wodehouse's DW) in this thread and the ones in the thread about "spousal inefficiencies." It's all fine and good to complain when one's DH can't seem to remember to open windows, turn on flat irons or get the right veggies at the store. But when wodehouse wonders what's going on with his DW, he is told he needs to alter HIS behavior by speaking to her more gently and not showing her spreadsheets. (I can't imagine how something like showing spreadsheets to someone is same thing as calling them an idiot, however. If that's the case, then my DH must think I think HE is an idiot, because I do this all the time.)

The implication is that when men fuck up housework they are idiots, but when a man wonders about his wife's naivete regarding finances he is being condescending.

That's probably just a function of the fact that there are more female poster than guy posters, and some women still have a bit of a silly "I am woman hear me roar" attitude.

Both sexes screw up, in the silliest and meaningless of ways. But often it is those little imperfections that are so endearing. No biggie...vive la différence.