How much should we pay my mom for daycare?

[Firebird]

So, our little Babybird should be making her debut within a month or so. I'm planning to take the rest of the year off to be with her (my awesome company recently instituted a new maternity policy which will mean I'm getting full pay for most of it, hooray!).

After that, it's daycare. DH and I *hoping* to go to four days a week (staggering our day off such that we only need a DCP three days per week), but not sure whether or not that will be possible.

My mother is going to be our full-time daycare provider during the day while DH and I work. (She has a part time minimum wage job which she may or may not keep after the new year, she definitely wants this to be her priority.) We plan to pay her - we'd likely be looking at around $250/week for regular daycare so that's the starting point I have in mind... but if DH and I can structure it so that we only need her three days a week, that could impact things.

Discussion questions:

-How much should we pay her?
-What type of wage makes most sense (hourly, daily, monthly)?
-In what form should we pay her?
-Anything we need to know about taxes?
-Other considerations?

[Firebird]

Oh, going by our current hours - DH usually leaves around 8:30, I think, and returns home around 5:30 so we're generally talking about nine hour days, possibly with an hour break for lunch - DH works close enough that he can come home on his lunch breaks.

(I usually leave around 6:45 and get home around 7, but thankfully we don't have to structure pickup and dropoff times around my hours anymore.)

Also, we're going to meet with my parents soon as a family to discuss this and I'm sure they have some ideas about what will be reasonable but I thought I'd have a few numbers in mind before we have that sit-down.

[Sum Dum Gai]

If you can afford it, I think at least half of whatever the daily rate at your local daycare places charge would be a good starting point.

It's still saving you guys quite a bit, and giving her enough that she probably won't start to feel taken advantage of.

[midjd]

Where will the babysitting take place? Her house or yours? Will you provide food?

GMIL babysits 3yo DN all day and 5yo DN after school - I think SIL pays her $150 or so per week, but the babysitting happens at SIL's house so that she provides all food, toys, pack & play, high chair, diapers, etc. If SIL were dropping them off and GMIL had to provide those things, she'd be justified in charging a lot more.

[reader79]

How much - are we going by Price Is Right rules? If so, my answer is $420.



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If you want a serious answer, I would say work out a daily rate. Decide on who's paying for supplies and food, field trips, etc. Maybe a bit over what she would net at her PT job, taking into account that she is watching Your Precious.

[Deleted]

If SIL were dropping them off and GMIL had to provide those things, she'd be justified in charging a lot more.

This is true ... on the other hand, it may be that Firebird's mom is happier to watch Babybird in Mom's own home so she can be at home.

She has a part time minimum wage job which she may or may not keep after the new year, she definitely wants this to be her priority.

Do you know how much she earns from that? How many hours a week does she work?

I'd try to at least match that, since that is the amount of money she decided to work for.

Plus, I'm sure you will be getting a HUGE amount of "extras" from her already.

Frankly, I'd offer to pay her market rate. I don't know how it works there but it's hard to find a dcp who is willing to take a child only 3 days a week. So you're already saving money there. Plus she won't be charging you overtime for dinners out, late meetings, etc etc etc.

[Firebird]

Sept 10, 2012 16:08:02 GMT -5 @tbird said:

read the daycare thread.

You either pay her nothing, ruin her life expecting her to do it, or leach off the system somehow.

[whoisjohngalt]

Does she know that you want to pay her?

[Firebird]

Has she asked for a certain amount?

Not yet, and I doubt she will. Although she agrees that we should pay her, she's not the type to name her price first. Which is why I want to make sure we're being fair about it (although obviously part of the point is saving *a few* dollars on daycare, I don't want to take advantage of her).

If you can afford it, I think at least half of whatever the daily rate at your local daycare places charge would be a good starting point.

I'll look up exactly what that is after I've answered the questions asked so far.

Where will the babysitting take place? Her house or yours? Will you provide food?

She lives across the street, so she'll have her pick of locations. Naturally she'd be welcome to anything from our fridge while she was there. I don't care which house she wants to watch Babybird in - my guess is she'll be at ours more often than not since she's got a noisy pet and we don't.

Do you know how much she earns from that? How many hours a week does she work?

Not specifically, but it's not much over minimum wage. And I'd honestly be very surprised if she keeps that job after she starts looking after our kid, although she theoretically could... she's talked about cutting her hours and such.

Yes, we'll at least match that wage. It's not like replacing a hugely profitable job with benefits.

[Deleted]

Not specifically, but it's not much over minimum wage.

In that case, my question would be, so how many hours / days does she work?

ETA: I'd also make sure her house was relatively well-equipped so she COULD stay in her house if she preferred.

[whoisjohngalt]

Are you trying to save on dc or do you want to have your child watched by a family member? If you are trying to save on dc - than pay her less whatever the average is in your area. If you don't want your kid in a regular dc and your mom is willing to watch her - pay her whatever the going rate it

Lena

[Deleted]

K to Lena who said exactly what I was thinking.

[Firebird]

In that case, my question would be, so how many hours / days does she work?

Currently, I believe she works five days a week (Tuesday - Saturday) for around five hours per day. Need to check on that but 25 hours sounds about right.

ETA: I'd also make sure her house was relatively well-equipped so she COULD stay in her house if she preferred.

Well, that's part of the advantage of her being right across the street - whatever we've got, she's got. Toys, clothes, extra burp cloths, whatever. We'll buy her a carseat so she can take her own car when she goes places, and other than that she should be all set. Anything Babybird likes to use during the day can be at her house, but we can bring it back and forth without too much trouble.

Are you trying to save on dc or do you want to have your child watched by a family member? If you are trying to save on dc - than pay her less whatever the average is in your area. If you don't want your kid in a regular dc and your mom is willing to watch her - pay her whatever the going rate it

It's a combination of both, but probably more the latter. When we told her I was pregnant, almost the first words out of her mouth were "Can I be the baby's nanny?!??!?!" and she's awesome, so naturally she's the perfect choice for our caregiver. We moved to town specifically so we could be nice and close and this would be an easy arrangement.

She would probably be willing to do this for free or a very small fee, but it's not really in my nature to NOT pay someone who's looking after my baby, even my own mom. To me, that's a job and anyone doing it other than me and DH ought to be getting paid for it. So that's where we are right now.

[whoisjohngalt]

I wouldn't be surprised if she took all the money and saved it for your DD or something, so keep that in mind

[Sum Dum Gai]

When we told her I was pregnant, almost the first words out of her mouth were "Can I be the baby's nanny?!??!?!"

First, that's awesome!

Second, if for some reason my vasectomy reverses itself and Loop and I find ourselves with an unexpected pregnancy (knock on wood), what do you think the odds are that your mom would adopt me? We're willing to move to the east bay if necessary.

[Deleted]

Need to check on that but 25 hours sounds about right.

So, that's three longer days per week. Perfect!

whatever we've got, she's got.

Sort of ... she's probably around my age? I'm 52. At some point shlepping a baby AND a travel cot (or Pack n Play) back and forth is going to get old. I'd want my own (crib), set up permanently in my house, since I'm both the dcp AND the grandma. And, YOU guys won't want to be shlepping things back and forth every morning and evening either. It will just add to your burden as working parents.

I sort of think you missed my point here, Firebird. Although she can cross the street for anything, personally, I think she shouldn't have to.

And I agree that she will need her own car seat.

[kgb18]

I wouldn't even know what to tell you FB. The whole concept of paying family is strange to me. I know my family is in the minority, but no money changes hands for childcare on either my side or DH's side of the family.

Don't get me wrong, it's great you want to compensate her. And if she's actually going to give up a job to watch Babybird, you have an entirely different situation than our families.

[Firebird]

Second, if for some reason my vasectomy reverses itself and Loop and I find ourselves with an unexpected pregnancy (knock on wood), what do you think the odds are that your mom would adopt me? We're willing to move to the east bay if necessary.

She's already got one judgmental asshole for a kid. I have dibs! But you're welcome to come over sometime and attempt to charm her. She already knows who you are, so good luck with that... but you can try ;D

Yeah, she's awesome.

I sort of think you missed my point here, Firebird. Although she can cross the street for anything, personally, I think she shouldn't have to.

I know... and I agree... what I was saying was that we can put the regular baby stuff in her house if she wants it there, OR we could leave it in our house if she wants it THERE, or we can split it up, or she can go back and forth. Any "schlepping" of heavy stuff would be done by me or DH, I don't expect her to do it. She may not want the baby crap at her house.

Also, when I say she lives across the street... that's not a euphemism. It's a 20 second walk if you're being slow about it.

[Sum Dum Gai]

She's already got one judgmental asshole for a kid. I have dibs! But you're welcome to come over sometime and attempt to charm her. She already knows who you are, so good luck with that... but you can try ;D

You told your mom about me, without me being there to defend myself?? Dirty pool.

[8 Bit WWBG]

Technically she probably SHOULD be claiming her income as taxable. Whether she will, and what happens if caught is another question.

Unless you are paying her less than $12k/year, in which case can she consider it a "gift".

Its great that you have this arrangement. DW and I have NO family nearby. In the event the impossible happens, we'd be "those" HCOLA parents shelling out $1,800/mo for daycare.

If I were going to be the DCP, I think it would be nice to not have to "cover" anything. Whatever I'm paid should be my wage. After all, I don't buy my own pencils and paper for my job. I expect it to be provided to me. It sounds like you'll do that so thats good.

Do the in-laws have any issues with your Mom getting so much contact? I could see that being an issue based on some of the "crazy family" stories we've gotten here.

ETA: I'm not sure how to quote the wage. <x/day>, <x/week>... Since you probably don't plan to keep a time sheet, weekly is probably fine. I'm sure it will all balance out, or likely work in your favor.

[Firebird]

I wouldn't even know what to tell you FB. The whole concept of paying family is strange to me. I know my family is in the minority, but no money changes hands for childcare on either my side or DH's side of the family.

I can understand why people don't. I mean, it's not like she's in this for the money. She wants to be an active part of the baby's life. I would never in a million years ask or expect this of her - it's something she wants.

That being said, though... being a full time DCP (especially for a tiny baby) is hard work and a huge responsibility. I just don't feel right asking her to give up her days for this without some sort of financial compensation. I wouldn't feel right asking that of anyone.

[Firebird]

Sept 10, 2012 17:16:41 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

She's already got one judgmental asshole for a kid. I have dibs! But you're welcome to come over sometime and attempt to charm her. She already knows who you are, so good luck with that... but you can try ;D

You told your mom about me, without me being there to defend myself?? Dirty pool.

I'm sure I included some stories where you were wearing more than the Minnie Mouse ears... well, pretty sure.

[8 Bit WWBG]

FB, I clicked the wrong "modify" button and accidentally modified your post instead of mine. I fixed yours back to how it was, but don't get confused if you see "last edit by WWBG".

[Firebird]

Unless you are paying her less than $12k/year, in which case can she consider it a "gift".

I thought the gift limit was $10k, but if it's $12k all the better - I doubt we will be paying more than $1k/month.

Its great that you have this arrangement. DW and I have NO family nearby. In the event the impossible happens, we'd be "those" HCOLA parents shelling out $1,800/mo for daycare.

We're definitely lucky. I can even imagine putting off the move to Washington because this arrangement works too well for everyone to give it up.

Do the in-laws have any issues with your Mom getting so much contact? I could see that being an issue based on some of the "crazy family" stories we've gotten here.

Eh. DH doesn't have parents so there's no direct grandparent competition. I'm hoping that we can bring Babybird to visit the extended family often, but I don't foresee any drama because my mom gets full time contact.

[hoops902]

::Frankly, I'd offer to pay her market rate. I don't know how it works there but it's hard to find a dcp who is willing to take a child only 3 days a week. So you're already saving money there. Plus she won't be charging you overtime for dinners out, late meetings, etc etc etc. ::

The market rate of what though? The market rate for single hourly daycare is probably much higher than the market rate for your kid to go to an actual daycare. The market rate for one person to watch your one child is probably very high. (i.e. you might be able to drop your kid off at a daycare for a couple bucks an hour. Hiring someone to watch only your child all day every day is probably close to minimum wage or higher).

::If you can afford it, I think at least half of whatever the daily rate at your local daycare places charge would be a good starting point.
::

Why half? I understand it's not a real daycare, but you're also basically getting 1 on 1 attention from someone you know loves her.

I would suggest not paying hourly. Who wants to track that? And then you've got the times you might need her to watch her at night, randomly some weekend as a favor, etc.

I wouldn't do this for most people, but for someone i think would watch my kid for free, I'd probably do it monthly. In part because it's simpler, in part because I don't want to hurt feelings or offend when I forget to count that one day I dropped the kid off for an hour as "a day" because she said she'd watch him while I ran errands. The key being that you won't feel cheated if you end up only working 3 days per week, and she won't if you start at 3 and end up doing 5.

I think I'd actually be pretty specific about it too. You get $x month (or day or whatever) in exchange for watching our child (or being available to watch our child) M-F from 8am to 5pm. And then making it clear that any other times watching the kid are "grandma" times which she is free to say yes or no to as she pleases and are not compensated times. (to keep her from feeling like a 24/7 on-call babysitter and to keep you from letting any feelings of being annoyed sneak in when she says no to watching your kid on a Friday Date night). I actually think the more "rules" you put around it, the more freedom everyone will have. Sometimes people feel trapped in these siutations from a sense of obligation and having pre-defined rules allow more freedom than no rules would.

[Firebird]

ETA: I'm not sure how to quote the wage. <x/day>, <x/week>... Since you probably don't plan to keep a time sheet, weekly is probably fine. I'm sure it will all balance out, or likely work in your favor.

Yeah, this part is tricky.

Let's say we use $1k/month as a starting point. That breaks down to roughly $250/week, $50/day, or $5.50 an hour.

If we only need her 3 days a week, the daily or hourly rate is fair (I think). That would be about $600/month. I'd be very surprised if she were earning more than that from her part time job when you factor in taxes - plus, she could still keep the part time job if she wanted, assuming they were willing to adjust her hours.

If we needed her 5 days a week, I don't see her holding onto the part time job as a realistic possibility and the weekly rate would be fairer.

But...

[Firebird]

You get $x month (or day or whatever) in exchange for watching our child (or being available to watch our child) M-F from 8am to 5pm. And then making it clear that any other times watching the kid are "grandma" times which she is free to say yes or no to as she pleases and are not compensated times. (to keep her from feeling like a 24/7 on-call babysitter and to keep you from letting any feelings of being annoyed sneak in when she says no to watching your kid on a Friday Date night).

That's actually a great idea. I was hoping we could find another babysitter in the neighborhood who might be open to the occasional date night or Saturday or whatever (tons of young families in our neighborhood so it is a possibility that someone might be open to some kind of babysitting swap agreement) for this exact reason - I wouldn't want to rely on my parents for nighttime/weekend care for our kid when my mom's already watching her 25-40 hours per week.

I also think we should put this agreement in writing, whatever we end up doing. It sounds cold but that way we're all for sure on the same page from the start.

[Deleted]

Let's say we use $1k/month as a starting point. That breaks down to roughly $250/week, $50/day, or $5.50 an hour.

If we only need her 3 days a week, the daily or hourly rate is fair (I think). That would be about $600/month.

That sounds fair to me too.

If we needed her 5 days a week, I don't see her holding onto the part time job as a realistic possibility and the weekly rate would be fairer.

At 5 days a week, IMO, the issue wouldn't be the money anymore, it would be her independence. It would mean that your mom would not have any days to sleep late, garden, shop, have lunch with friends, whatever floats her boat, without a baby in tow.

Now it is totally possible that I am projecting my own concerns onto this situation LOL.

[Firebird]

At 5 days a week, the issue wouldn't be the money anymore, it would be her independence. It would mean that your mom would not have any day to sleep late, garden, shop, have lunch with friends, whatever floats her boat, without a baby in tow.

Quite true. Which is why I'm hoping it's not five days a week... but it could be, and we need to make sure she's okay with that.

I don't think you're projecting, debthaven - these are all very valid points. Keep em coming!

[kgb18]

I can understand why people don't. I mean, it's not like she's in this for the money. She wants to be an active part of the baby's life. I would never in a million years ask or expect this of her - it's something she wants.

I wasn't at all trying to imply you expected it or that she doesn't want to. I hope you didn't take it that way. And I don't think you're wrong to pay her. It's just not something I'm familiar with.

DH and I work opposite shifts and have odd days off, so our need for childcare varies from week to week. My MIL is our main childcare provider when we need help. We actually weren't going to ask her because she's been taking care of my SIL's kids for 20+ years. We figured she would want a break. She was hurt when we didn't ask her, and she refused payment.

We all watch each other's kids and pitch in a drive kids to practice or wherever. No one in our family takes payment for any of it.