State subsidizing daycare

[Tennesseer]

Sept 10, 2012 7:53:33 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

When raising our kids, we didn't expect others to pay for our childcare needs and I resent my tax dollars going to pay for someone else's. If you can't afford to have kids, why should that be my problem?

I would recommend children who have been on welfare their entire lives be spayed or neutered before they reach puberty. They can then have all the sex they want once they reach sexual maturity without fear of becoming irresponsible fathers and mothers.

We could drastically cut down future welfare recipients. As my entire yearly tax liability goes toward taking care of sex-obsessed poor people, it would be a win-win outcome for for all.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Like DramaQ's state, my state also provides subsidized daycare if you are enrolled or working towards something. One can't just barge in and ask for it.

But that is what my cousin's friend's mother did. Therefore all people who recieve subsidized daycare must do this. The states rain free daycare money from the sky (wish I could find some)!

let's not let facts get in the way shall we?

[Deleted]

Also, based on a conversation I had with my daughter's daycare the subsidies from the government, plus what they are limited to charge the subsidized families does not equal the cost of providing the care. So how do they 'make it up'...they charge the paying families more than what it costs.

So I end up paying for their kids twice, once through welfare and a second time through higher costs.

[swasat]

Sept 10, 2012 9:52:46 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Like DramaQ's state, my state also provides subsidized daycare if you are enrolled or working towards something. One can't just barge in and ask for it.

But that is what my cousin's friend's mother did. Therefore all people who recieve subsidized daycare must do this. The states rain free daycare money from the sky (wish I could find some)!

let's not let facts get in the way shall we?

Give me some of that special snowflake money when you find it. Will ya? Because I seem to have missed the bus...

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

If I find special snowflake daycare money there is no way I am sharing it with anyone!

;D

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 9:48:21 GMT -5 swasat said:

Sept 10, 2012 9:27:37 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Our constitution guarantees equal access and opportunity to education. It does not guarantee that we offer unlimited opportunities even after you've proven poor judgement.

How is it unlimited? We are talking about subsidizing daycare while the parent goes to school or works a job or learns a trade. Who here said that dayacre should be subsidized for the ENTIRE life of the person receiving it?

Like DramaQ's state, my state also provides subsidized daycare if you are enrolled or working towards something. One can't just barge in and ask for it.

In Illinois, the subsidies are for anyone falls into a range on a chart which is based on how much they make and how many kids they have. There is not a limit for how long they can get it.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 9:55:13 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Also, based on a conversation I had with my daughter's daycare the subsidies from the government, plus what they are limited to charge the subsidized families does not equal the cost of providing the care. So how do they 'make it up'...they charge the paying families more than what it costs.

So I end up paying for their kids twice, once through welfare and a second time through higher costs.

Well that is not what my state does. The state subsidized X, you pay total cost-X. There is no limitation on charge for those on the subsidy, they total payment to the daycare is the amount charged to the rest of the group.

[swasat]

Sept 10, 2012 9:55:13 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Also, based on a conversation I had with my daughter's daycare the subsidies from the government, plus what they are limited to charge the subsidized families does not equal the cost of providing the care. So how do they 'make it up'...they charge the paying families more than what it costs.

So I end up paying for their kids twice, once through welfare and a second time through higher costs.

Ummm, I don't get this.

So lets say the monthly dcp cost is $1000. Its subsidized for some families so they only pay 50%. Hence the remaining $500 is paid by the state. How do YOU end up paying more than $ 1000? Its still 1K for you. How does it effect your cost? Its not like the price is $1000 for some families and $1500 for others. That would be illegal, wouldn't it?

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Same here from what I understand. You still have to pay full rate, just a certain % is paid for by the state. It also sounds very easy to lose your subsidy based on what I overheard from the daycare provider talking to someone about it. There is hardly unlimited money raining down from the sky.

And you MUST be able to meet your portion of the costs. There is no getting free daycare around here.

[midjd]

Sept 10, 2012 10:00:06 GMT -5 swasat said:

Sept 10, 2012 9:55:13 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Also, based on a conversation I had with my daughter's daycare the subsidies from the government, plus what they are limited to charge the subsidized families does not equal the cost of providing the care. So how do they 'make it up'...they charge the paying families more than what it costs.

So I end up paying for their kids twice, once through welfare and a second time through higher costs.

Ummm, I don't get this.

So lets say the monthly dcp cost is $1000. Its subsidized for some families so they only pay 50%. Hence the remaining $500 is paid by the state. How do YOU end up paying more than $ 1000? Its still 1K for you. How does it effect your cost? Its not like the price is $1000 for some families and $1500 for others. That would be illegal, wouldn't it?

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

I think what he's saying is that say the monthly cost is $800, but the subsidy + low-income family contribution only totals = $600, so the other families pay $1000. If I'm understanding correctly.

[jeffreymo]

Sept 10, 2012 10:00:06 GMT -5 swasat said:

Sept 10, 2012 9:55:13 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Also, based on a conversation I had with my daughter's daycare the subsidies from the government, plus what they are limited to charge the subsidized families does not equal the cost of providing the care. So how do they 'make it up'...they charge the paying families more than what it costs.

So I end up paying for their kids twice, once through welfare and a second time through higher costs.

Ummm, I don't get this.

So lets say the monthly dcp cost is $1000. Its subsidized for some families so they only pay 50%. Hence the remaining $500 is paid by the state. How do YOU end up paying more than $ 1000? Its still 1K for you. How does it effect your cost? Its not like the price is $1000 for some families and $1500 for others. That would be illegal, wouldn't it?

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

States have budgets that they must stick to. Child care subsidies aren't limitless. Our state evaluates private rates each year and determines what they will reimburse to centers. The difference is made up by private pay tuition. The reimbursement rate calculation is loosely based on the cost of care.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 10:11:20 GMT -5 midjd said:

Sept 10, 2012 10:00:06 GMT -5 swasat said:

Ummm, I don't get this.

So lets say the monthly dcp cost is $1000. Its subsidized for some families so they only pay 50%. Hence the remaining $500 is paid by the state. How do YOU end up paying more than $ 1000? Its still 1K for you. How does it effect your cost? Its not like the price is $1000 for some families and $1500 for others. That would be illegal, wouldn't it?

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

I think what he's saying is that say the monthly cost is $800, but the subsidy + low-income family contribution only totals = $600, so the other families pay $1000. If I'm understanding correctly.

I would like to know what state this is. How can a state say, "You can only charge X"? The daycare I signed up for has a 6-9 month waitlist, why not just not take the subsidy if it is losing the daycare money?

[swamp]

why not just not take the subsidy if it is losing the daycare money?

Because they get help in other areas, like nutritional services grants and transportation and equipment grants if they take a certain percentage of children who qualify for assistance.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 10:00:06 GMT -5 swasat said:

Sept 10, 2012 9:55:13 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Also, based on a conversation I had with my daughter's daycare the subsidies from the government, plus what they are limited to charge the subsidized families does not equal the cost of providing the care. So how do they 'make it up'...they charge the paying families more than what it costs.

So I end up paying for their kids twice, once through welfare and a second time through higher costs.

Ummm, I don't get this.

So lets say the monthly dcp cost is $1000. Its subsidized for some families so they only pay 50%. Hence the remaining $500 is paid by the state. How do YOU end up paying more than $ 1000? Its still 1K for you. How does it effect your cost? Its not like the price is $1000 for some families and $1500 for others. That would be illegal, wouldn't it?

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

Ok - perhaps I didn't describe it clearly. Here's an example.

Cost for DCP to provide care per kid = approx 900/month
They get only get from government = 500/month
They are limited by government to only charge subsidized families 300/month

That leaves a $100 'shortfall' for the daycare. They are not going to take a loss, so they charge paying families $1,000 a month. That is their published rate.

[midjd]

I will only say that I live in a VERY low COLA, where the average household income is in the low $40Ks, and infant daycare at a center runs about $200-$250/week. That is unaffordable for the vast majority of the local population. Hell, DH and I make almost $100K, and I've tried to see what our budget would be like with kids, and it's not pretty.

So I'm not going to begrudge anyone some daycare subsidies given the constraints others have posted with regard to state law - Illinois may be an exception, but I don't see any special snowflake money raining from the sky here, either.

[swamp]

So I'm not going to begrudge anyone some daycare subsidies given the constraints others have posted with regard to state law

You communist!!!!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

So I'm not going to begrudge anyone some daycare subsidies given the constraints others have posted with regard to state law

Mid, you're not supposed to base your opinion on facts. Only personal experience and random assumptions about other people count.

[swamp]

Sept 10, 2012 10:26:36 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

So I'm not going to begrudge anyone some daycare subsidies given the constraints others have posted with regard to state law

Mid, you're not supposed to base your opinion on facts. Only personal experience and random assumptions about other people count.

If I were basing it on what I see at work, nobody should get it because I've seen a few welfare frauds where mom was getting someone to lie about her work hours to collect more daycare subsidies.

For some stupid reason, the county lets the mom get the money directly and use it to pay the provider. I don't think that should be the policy.

[mmhmm]

I'd one heck of a lot rather my tax dollars go to pay for daycare for the child/children of a student trying to better his/her situation than to line the pockets of some lying politician. While there is some abuse (and there will always be some abuse), it's not nearly as pervasive as abuse of political office, IMO.

[973beachbum]

Sept 10, 2012 10:18:26 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Sept 10, 2012 10:00:06 GMT -5 swasat said:

Ummm, I don't get this.

So lets say the monthly dcp cost is $1000. Its subsidized for some families so they only pay 50%. Hence the remaining $500 is paid by the state. How do YOU end up paying more than $ 1000? Its still 1K for you. How does it effect your cost? Its not like the price is $1000 for some families and $1500 for others. That would be illegal, wouldn't it?

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

Ok - perhaps I didn't describe it clearly. Here's an example.

Cost for DCP to provide care per kid = approx 900/month
They get only get from government = 500/month
They are limited by government to only charge subsidized families 300/month

That leaves a $100 'shortfall' for the daycare. They are not going to take a loss, so they charge paying families $1,000 a month. That is their published rate.

The daycare doesn't fund raise? My kids daycare used to fund raise like crazy. One day the mgr told me about the newest fund raiser. I got annoyed because I hate fund raisers! The woman explained that the state/fed subsidies require the DC centers to fund raise an equal amount to all subsidies given to them. So if they get $10K in subsidies they have to fund raise at least $10K or lose the amount under it.

I was pretty sure she said it is a fed requirement but I could be wrong. It was a long time ago.

And the people who did by far the most fund raising were the people who got the subsidies for their kids. ;D

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 10:18:26 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Sept 10, 2012 10:00:06 GMT -5 swasat said:

Ummm, I don't get this.

So lets say the monthly dcp cost is $1000. Its subsidized for some families so they only pay 50%. Hence the remaining $500 is paid by the state. How do YOU end up paying more than $ 1000? Its still 1K for you. How does it effect your cost? Its not like the price is $1000 for some families and $1500 for others. That would be illegal, wouldn't it?

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

Ok - perhaps I didn't describe it clearly. Here's an example.

Cost for DCP to provide care per kid = approx 900/month
They get only get from government = 500/month
They are limited by government to only charge subsidized families 300/month

That leaves a $100 'shortfall' for the daycare. They are not going to take a loss, so they charge paying families $1,000 a month. That is their published rate.

So why take the subsidized child? And what state is this? I like better how NY does things. But I guess that is what you get when states run it, instead of the feds.

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 10:45:28 GMT -5 973beachbum said:

Sept 10, 2012 10:18:26 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Ok - perhaps I didn't describe it clearly. Here's an example.

Cost for DCP to provide care per kid = approx 900/month
They get only get from government = 500/month
They are limited by government to only charge subsidized families 300/month

That leaves a $100 'shortfall' for the daycare. They are not going to take a loss, so they charge paying families $1,000 a month. That is their published rate.

The daycare doesn't funraise? My kids daycare used to fundraise like crazy. One day the mgr told me about the newest funraiser. I got annoyed because I hate fundraisers! The woman explained that the state/fed subsidies require the DC centers to fundraise an equal amount to all subsidies given to them. So if they get $10K in subsudies they have to fundraise at least $10K or lose the amount under it.

I was pretty sure she said it is a fed requirement but I could be wrong. It was a long time ago.

And the poeple who did by far the most fundraising were the people who got the subsidies for their kids. ;D

Nope - no fundraisers. The two different DayCares that DD has been at over the years never have had a single fundraiser. (Thank goodness...DD's school hits us with two a year.)

[Deleted]

Sept 10, 2012 10:45:48 GMT -5 @gin1984 said:

Sept 10, 2012 10:18:26 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Ok - perhaps I didn't describe it clearly. Here's an example.

Cost for DCP to provide care per kid = approx 900/month
They get only get from government = 500/month
They are limited by government to only charge subsidized families 300/month

That leaves a $100 'shortfall' for the daycare. They are not going to take a loss, so they charge paying families $1,000 a month. That is their published rate.

So why take the subsidized child? And what state is this? I like better how NY does things. But I guess that is what you get when states run it, instead of the feds.

Swamp hit it on the head...plus I don't think they are allowed to turn away anyone unless they do not pay their bills.

Sept 10, 2012 10:15:12 GMT -5 swamp said:

why not just not take the subsidy if it is losing the daycare money?

Because they get help in other areas, like nutritional services grants and transportation and equipment grants if they take a certain percentage of children who qualify for assistance.

[973beachbum]

Sept 10, 2012 10:53:12 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Sept 10, 2012 10:45:48 GMT -5 @gin1984 said:

So why take the subsidized child? And what state is this? I like better how NY does things. But I guess that is what you get when states run it, instead of the feds.

Swamp hit it on the head...plus I don't think they are allowed to turn away anyone unless they do not pay their bills.


Because they get help in other areas, like nutritional services grants and transportation and equipment grants if they take a certain percentage of children who qualify for assistance.

[/quote]

But then the extra grants they get from taking those subsidized children do make up for the amount they lose in the subsidy. If it didn't they wouldn't take them.

This actually means that those kids subsidies and grants are partially paying for your daycare though not the other way around.

[Deleted]

Beachbum,

No, those just reduce the amount that the subsidized families 'underpay'. Perhaps I should have made an additional line item in my earlier post to add in the additional subsidies/grants...but then someone else would have found something else to nitpick on. It was meant to be an example, not a dollar-for-dollar exact representation.

[midjd]

Sept 10, 2012 11:25:01 GMT -5 @foodiedad said:

Beachbum,

No, those just reduce the amount that the subsidized families 'underpay'. Perhaps I should have made an additional line item in my earlier post to add in the additional subsidies/grants...but then someone else would have found something else to nitpick on. It was meant to be an example, not a dollar-for-dollar exact representation.

The "nitpicking" generally comes when someone takes a specific example from a specific state (or even county) and uses this to justify a blanket denunciation of the policy.

It's one thing to disagree with the way daycare subsidies are implemented or handled in your area. Swamp's example of the county giving the money directly to the parent is a good one. Or the places that don't require FT enrollment/employment and drug screening.

But the "no one should ever receive subsidies for any reason" line of argument is pretty heartless. With childcare, you generally get what you pay for... and without subsidies to ensure the affordability of good childcare for much of the population, you're going to end up with a lot of abused/neglected children.

[Deleted]

So, basically what you're saying is, some people complain when someone does not give examples of what they are talking about and others nitpick when they DO give examples....

[Phoenix84]

I thought I'd weigh in on the idea of family watching your kid.

I'd never expect my parents to be my own personal daycare service I don't have to pay. I might ask them to "help out" every once and a while, but I don't view it as their responsiblity. If I needed daycare and they offered I'd pay them a fair rate for their time. Maybe not as much as a normal daycare providor, but certainly something for their time. And I don't expect them to sacrifice anything in their retirement for my (hypothetical) kids.

There have been plenty of threads here about parents who start being controlling because they have the "right" since they watch your kid. I wouldn't put up with that.

[Phoenix84]

"You communist!!!!"

Nobody called me a communist for saying pretty much the same thing

[michelyn8]

Sept 10, 2012 8:49:02 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

If so many people weren't alienating the older relatives in their lives, they'd have the free daycare they need

Let's see here. DH's grandparents are dead. I only have one set living 2 hours away. My parents are still young enough that they work for a living. His parents are in their late 70's and have a whole host of medical problems that keep them from watching my kid for more than a couple hours for us to go to the store.

I have no aunts or uncles. DH's are all elderly, dropping like flies or have their own grandkids they need to take care of.

My brother is only 21 and no way am I going to let him full time babysit. DH's brother and sister both still work and have their own kids.

So please tell me exactly how I am "alienating" all relatives?

Where do you people live where you have endless numbers of elderly relatives who are not only physically capable of watching a child seven days a week but also WANT to?

Its not only all of the above but that some people choose to move away from family for job opportunities (which is a YM approved method to increase income, right?). You move to a new place, have no familial support system and you have no choice but to pay for daycare unless you're in a situation to have a SAHP. And if you're a single parent who chose to "follow the money" by moving from an area where you had family but few job opportunities to one of no family and better job opportunities, then you also have to pay for daycare.

I'm mixed on this. I had my first child at 17. There was no question that I would be finishing high school and I did. I had already determined before I got pregnant that I wanted to work as a legal secretary and had gone into a vocational track my junior year. I could have easily found a job doing clerical work if I had chosen to drop out but instead stayed in the track my senior year and then went to a technical school after graduation. I was working full time before DS was 2. My mother was already providing daycare for my nieces and had no issues providing it for DS.

For me, the idea of using a subsidized daycare provider was a last resort. I simply didn't want my kids around the stereotypes I knew to be in those places. Same with subsidized housing. I couldn't afford to live on my own and hated living with my mother but when I looked at where I'd have to live if I sought public housing assistance, it was much safer and a better influence on my kids to just suck it up, pay mom to live with her and put up with her interference.