Tred
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Post by Tred on May 31, 2012 17:26:50 GMT -5
Last weekend I had some relatives visiting from out of town. My uncle told a story about a family heirloom that he had, that he thought was very cool and had some actual historical relevance. Prior to him telling about it, I didn't know that this heirloom existed. He ended by saying that he had sold the item, and now he really wished he had hung on to it.
After the visit, I became pretty angry for a couple reasons: First, if it left the family, I feel it should have been donated to a museum or a collection.
Second, rather than just selling it to a random person, I would have preferred that other people in the family could have voiced their opinions before he sold it.
Finally, most importantly (an extension of the previous), it WASN'T an heirloom from his bloodline. My maternal grandmother gave this item to my father's brother (the uncle being discussed) in appreciation for helping her move out of her house several years ago. So it had no family significance to him, as it came from his brother's wife's family. Because of that, I'm upset that he didn't think to give/sell it back to the bloodline where it originated. I don't know if he *needed* money at the time, but I would have gladly bought it from him for a fair market value.
Projecting myself into his position: If I was friend's with my sibling's spouse's mother, and she gave me a meaningful family heirloom that I wanted to sell, I would definitely discuss its fate with people from their family before ever simply selling it. In the case of my uncle, yes, he owned it and was free to do whatever he wanted with it. I'm pissed that he, who has an entire garage full of his OWN family's artifacts, didn't assign any importance to this one item.
So...has anyone else dealt with family heirlooms that were handled in a way you didn't like?
I'm sure this is a topic that's been discussed here before, but hey....
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Golden Cavalier
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Post by Golden Cavalier on May 31, 2012 18:19:41 GMT -5
Why would he assign any importance to this item? It's not from his family, so it's not an heirloom as far as he's concerned. He saw it as a chance to make a few bucks on an item of "historical relevance." If you're going to be angry at anyone, it should be your grandmother. She's the one who gave the heirloom away. Clearly, she didn't consider it to be as valuable as you think it was.
I've had people help me move before. It would never have occurred to me to give away great-grandma's china as a thank you.
And, honestly, you sound like you're getting a little hot under the collar about something you never knew existed until last weekend.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 31, 2012 18:22:38 GMT -5
Maybe the person who bought it is a collector of historical artifacts? Maybe the purchaser is donating his collections to a museum on his death?
It's just stuff. Let it go.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 18:36:44 GMT -5
Your grandmother gave it to him. That made it his. IMO you are way out of line.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 31, 2012 18:47:56 GMT -5
Family heirlooms can bring out some odd feelings in people.....
Before my parents moved last summer, they started selling things that they no longer wanted/needed to avoid moving too much stuff (my Dad moreso than my Mom). One of the things they decided to sell was their antique jukebox that they have had since I was in either 6th or 7th grade. It wasn't a valuable one, but it was a novelty to own anyway (it played 45's and was neat to watch shuffling the records, but the speakers weren't the best quality).
When Brother found out that they sold it - him and his GF/fiance had a fit!! They really let Mom and Dad know how upset they were about not being asked about wanting it first. The thing is though, neither of them had ever said anything about wanting it before. They have one item that I have called dibs on since they found it in their attic - they have always known that if they ever decide to get rid of it, I want it.
Mom and Dad asked us after that if there was anything else either of us (Brother or I) wanted before they "accidentally" sold anything else. Bro said no, but his GF spoke up about what she wanted and Bro immediately piped up that he wanted it too (M & D weren't happy about that!). I thought about the question for over a week and finally told them I would be upset if they sold their dining room set without offering me first choice. After talking about the why's and how's - I actually came to the acceptance that it was just a table, chairs and buffet and I shouldn't care whether or not they sold it or not. I currently have no room for it, so if I bought/took it, I would have to store it - so we came to an understanding and compromise about the set.
Anyway - long story - I would suggest really thinking about why the conversation upset you in the first place. My guess would be not the fact that the item was sold, but that it actually brought up feelings of not being worthy by the family - or something similar. Figure out why, deep down, the true feelings are about why it was important to you. Odds are - it's not the fact that the item is gone, but because of something else that stirred these feelings in you.
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Tred
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Post by Tred on May 31, 2012 18:48:53 GMT -5
Interesting standpoints, but I'm not convinced.
It's a handgun from the Normandy invasion in WWII, apparently preserved extremely well. My understanding is that it was issued to my great-uncle (grandmother's brother).
My uncle has been an avid firearm enthusiast and a hunter since he was a kid, and is very knowledgeable about weapons. He hunted with his father & grandfather, and with my dad when they were young adults. When my dad died years ago (when I was a kid), my uncle kept my dad's guns until I was old enough to responsibly take possession of them. Though I'm not a hunter, I've been trained on various firearms, and my uncle and I have been shooting together at ranges many times.
So basically, this isn't an obscure item that was otherwise irrelevant to our interests. Because many other firearms have been handed down through the generations (several of them ending up with me), I wouldn't really expect my uncle to get rid of ANY gun that had a family connection. Now that I think of it, he also has handed down a Union Civil War sword that belonged to an ancestor of ours. This is an item I didn't know existed until he gave it to me, but I'm very glad to have it now.
No, I didn't have any personal connection to this handgun. The significance to the family is not Zero, however. I think my grandfather would also be pissed to know that it got sold out of the family.
"honestly, you sound like you're getting a little hot under the collar about something you never knew existed until last weekend." Yes, this is an accurate assessment. I could try to dream up hyperbolic examples to illustrate my POV, but I'll resist.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 19:21:13 GMT -5
I agree with tredmill- it was thoughtless of his uncle to just sell the item outside of the family.
When my Ex and I divorced, I was pretty lax about what "stuff" I let go of- it wasn't important. Later his sister asked me if I had any idea what happened to the album from her first wedding. It was beautifully done, with pictures of beloved and now long-dead relatives. For some reason we had it- and I had the sad task of telling her it was gone because the Ex had likely stopped paying the storage fees on all the stuff he took years ago. He moved into a cheap motel but had some fantasy of buying a luxury condo. What was sad is that to anyone else that album was just a bunch of pictures of people they didn't know and I'm sure it got tossed. The Ex also took a set of steak knives made by Warther in Dover, Ohio (near where I'd grown up) given to us as a wedding present by my siblings. When my mother, who's been trying to parcel things out and pare down their stuff, offered me the set that had belonged to her parents, I was thrilled. So yes, it IS important to try and put things with people who will treasure them, and that can mean family members. In some ways, it's even more important for things that others would throw out as junk.
Another ex-husband story: at some point his 90-something Grandma decided to buy herself a large, gaudy diamond solitaire ring. After she died, every one of her adult children wanted it- but then they found it was so valuable that if they got the ring, they'd get nothing else and owe the estate money. They lost interest. Fortunately, my x-SIL had it appraised and bought it from the estate. I assume it will go to her soon-to-be DIL next month when their only son marries.
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on May 31, 2012 19:49:37 GMT -5
There are some things that my Grandmother has given me that I know other people in my family would like. She delivered me at home and we have been very close throughout my life and we talk everyday during the week. She is 84 and I am lucky to have her still. There are some other things of hers I would love but know I shouldn't be greedy, but it's hard, I would love her silverware and china but told her she should give them to a cousin who is just now in the right place in life and would love and appreciate them very much. A cukoo clock that I have wanted since I was 2, I am sure will find a nice home with another family memeber. It's weird because although she gave me a nativity set I believe her mother made and I put up every year since I was 5 or six and a bottle of something like goldschlagger with a ballarinna that dances in a shot glass, she also gave me her set of pearls that my Grandpa gave her a long time ago ( he passed away when I was very little) and I think that may have been her most prized possesion. I feel honored. On that note, I know how you feel about someone giving away or losing something that you may hold very close. We lost a house that was my Grandmothers and I also grew up in when my mom decided to use funds for stuff other than paying the mortgage and lost the house to he bank. We were all very bitter and didn't talk to her for a long time. Things are being mended now but it still sucks. Sorry for the long post and I know I posted some very personal stuff, but thats the way I feel
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on May 31, 2012 20:34:55 GMT -5
I agree that it would have been appropriate for your uncle to offer it to you or another family member. But it wasn't obligatory, and it would serve no purpose now to bring it up with him. Deal with your anger, and let it go.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 31, 2012 21:38:28 GMT -5
""honestly, you sound like you're getting a little hot under the collar about something you never knew existed until last weekend." Yes, this is an accurate assessment. I could try to dream up hyperbolic examples to illustrate my POV, but I'll resist. "
I can understand why you wish it was handled differently but getting mad about it doesn't serve you. The situation won't change even if we all agreed with you. Whether you approve or not this is how it fell out.
My grandmother gave away her really cool round dining room table to her adopted daughter who was a PITA(she agreed BTW) instead of my Dad or anyone in our family. It annoyed all of us given we lived closer and came over more often, but it was her property to give out so I concentrate now on thinking of what I enjoyed about that table when it was in her home in the past instead of feeling loss about what might have been.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 31, 2012 23:10:43 GMT -5
Well, as some of you know, my mother just passed. In her will, she left me her jewelry, which was stolen by her stepsons wife before I ever got there, her furs, her musical instruments and everything my dad left her when he died. Her husband is having a conniption. I have to be at the house at 8:30 am to meet movers, it's going to cost me 4k to move it across country. I have been lenient about some stuff because it suited me to do so but after my stuff is safely out of their control, I'm going to get jiggy about the jewelry.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 31, 2012 23:11:25 GMT -5
Lots of antiques though. I did offer to let her stepson have them when I died but since his family stole my moms jewelry, no dice.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jun 1, 2012 1:54:46 GMT -5
I had the china teaset that my grandparents got for their wedding anniversary in 1925. I liked having it but I don't have children. Mom's sister asked me to give it to her granddaughter when I was done with it even if it was in the far future. I didn't want the girl to have it because she was about 19 and married but not settled down yet. I was sure if I waited until I was done with it my aunt would have died and I don't even know the girl's last name and don't stay in contact with my cousins. So I packed it and sent it to my aunt telling her I didn't want to give it to her granddaughter until she was older. Now my aunt has it in her china cabinet waiting until the time is right to give it to the girl.
My family is running out of younger generations. One brother's kids are mostly adopted so only two of his grandchildren are biologically family out of 17 total. One of his daughters isn't biologically his but she doesn't know it and would care more than others for family things. Other brother only has one grandchild who may reproduce so he may not get any great grandchildren. I have a few things that need passed down from my great grandmother but they aren't worth enough to sell anyhow.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Jun 1, 2012 6:14:06 GMT -5
Your grandmother gave it to him. That made it his. IMO you are way out of line. spot on kiddo
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2kids10horses
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Post by 2kids10horses on Jun 1, 2012 6:53:54 GMT -5
Heirlooms are a double edged sword. On the one hand, they can be wonderful artifacts you can treasure and pass on to your children. On the other, they can be dead weight, a burden you can't get rid of.
I have some of both.
My parents inherited a lot of nice (expensive) furniture when his sister died. A lot of victoriian chairs (that no one ever liked to sit in), chests and the like. My mother is now 98 years old in the elder care facility, and my sister and I have had to take them. What to do with them? They're not practical, we don't have a room to "display" them? Would our kids want them? Doubtful.
Then there were the pictures. There were four nice paintings. Years ago, my sister and I decided I would get two and she would get two. We had figured out which two would be whose. My mother thought I had gotten the better end of the deal (would get the most valuable ones) so, she decided that she would donate them to the local art museum instead. Fortunately, she never did, altough she did get a guy from Christie's to come over and "appraise" them. He never really gave her a price, but said that Christies would be happy to auction them for her!
Anyway, her motive for wanting to donate them was purely egotistical. She wanted to have the little plaque that says "Donated by So and So" with her name there.
Anyway, I got them, (my sister got her two) and I took mine to have a real appraisal done, and have them cleaned/restored. THey had hung on her walls for 50 years, and never properly cared for.
Good thing, one was really loose. Oil paintings need to be tight in their frames. When they're loose, the oil can "let go" of the canvas and crack and chip.
So, my plan to let each of my kids have one.
I guess what irked me when I found out about my mother's plan to donate them to the museum was the fact that Dad inherited them. But my mother "assumed ownership" of them. As if it were HER family's heirlooms.
And yet, today, she talks about how she believes that Dad spent money SHE inherited. (He didn't.) So, she's resentful beause she thinks Dad spent money that she inherited, and yet she wanted to donate paintings he inherited.
Funny how heirlooms can invoke emotions, isn't it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2012 6:58:17 GMT -5
Stop being an Indian giver.
He was non longer a family heirloom the moment your grandmother gave it to him.
What is people weird attachment to stuff anyway? My MIL and wife are the same way about those family heirlooms/pieces yaddi yadda
People, it's stuff/crapp; you can't take it with you. Calm down, live your life and create some good memories.
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Post by moxie on Jun 1, 2012 7:36:16 GMT -5
I love "Antiques Roadshow." So does my husband...it's one of our favorites. We have family heirlooms that have already been dispersed fairly and equally by my folks to each of their kids. No complaints from anyone. Everyone still has them. The values are different, but the sentimental value is PRICELESS. Mine will be passed down to my kids. I have one item that may go to the Historical Society one day. I could see a few siblings trying to pawn things down the road...
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Post by moxie on Jun 1, 2012 7:44:31 GMT -5
"In her will, she left me her jewelry, which was stolen by her stepsons wife before I ever got there, her furs, her musical instruments and everything my dad left her when he died. Her husband is having a conniption."
My mom just put her wishes about her jewelry in writing with two witnesses and her attorney present. I would think that if jewelry was taken, you could "slow down" anyone getting their inheritance until the jewelry is returned to the estate. It's usually the greedy thiefs that are the ones who need their inheritance the quickest.
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Post by moxie on Jun 1, 2012 7:45:46 GMT -5
Which posters here are attorneys? I have a question...regarding estates...
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Post by moxie on Jun 1, 2012 7:47:43 GMT -5
"In her will, she left me her jewelry, which was stolen by her stepsons wife before I ever got there, her furs, her musical instruments and everything my dad left her when he died."
I feel so bad for you, zib. That is just WRONG!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2012 8:00:52 GMT -5
Something like that recently happened to DH.
DH is related to a famous WWII general. We own several pieces of family furniture via his grandmother's estate; she was the general's sister. I was trying to get a handle on value because of our upcoming move back to the States so I googled General X furniture and up popped DH's grandmother's dining buffet. Apparently DH's cousin gave it to a family friend and a dealer bought it. It's in pretty rough shape and I think they couldn't even get $500 on e-Bay! Some dealer has bought but no one seems to be able to track him or her down.
I've since sent an e-mail to DH's cousins stating that if they have any of the furniture from DH's grandmother's estate to please let us know before they go to sell or give away. And while we aren't actively looking to acquire anything more we'd appreciate it if they would keep us in mind if they no longer have a use for the item.
Since we don't have kids, I'm going to have to research how best to handle disposing of the furniture. I'm leaning towards donating it to one of the museums in honor of the general.
The sad thing is that there's really no relation to the famous uncle unless he touched while he was visiting his sister's house.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Jun 1, 2012 8:27:58 GMT -5
I've since sent an e-mail to DH's cousins stating that if they have any of the furniture from DH's grandmother's estate to please let us know before they go to sell or give away. And while we aren't actively looking to acquire anything more we'd appreciate it if they would keep us in mind if they no longer have a use for the item. Since we don't have kids, I'm going to have to research how best to handle disposing of the furniture. I'm leaning towards donating it to one of the museums in honor of the general. Are you saying that you'd like to buy it from them? Or are you saying that you feel that they should give it to you? It sounds like it now belongs to your husband's cousins and whatever they decided or have done in the past(giving it away) was their choice to make.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 1, 2012 8:30:49 GMT -5
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 1, 2012 8:33:54 GMT -5
It was given to him and he had every right to do with it whatever he wanted. You have absolutely no right to be pissed at him for not doing what you think he should have done...frankly, it was none of your business.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2012 8:39:54 GMT -5
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 1, 2012 8:53:25 GMT -5
Swamp handles estate work, I believe...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 1, 2012 8:53:56 GMT -5
Well, he could argue that grandma was nuts to let him have it. Don't worry about me, I will get moms jewelry. Once my dads stuff is safely packed and shipped, then I'll talk turkey. I'll start off being tactful, then I'll bury them with legal bills, but I will get my moms jewelry.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 1, 2012 8:55:08 GMT -5
Funny how people get over things, huh? To some, it's the sentimental value; others see dollar signs.
My grandmother left me a ring my grandfather bought her when they got married. He picked it up on a trip to Mexico for $50.00 (which at the time was a BUNCH of money). She wore that ring her entire married life. A big, gaudy alexandrite. The ring is worth a few bucks today, but certainly not millions.
My grandmother left this ring to me as I was her eldest grandchild. My cousin was very upset about this as she wanted the ring. It meant a lot to both of us as it was just such a constant presence.
Trying to be fair and keep everyone happy, I offered to have the stone cut in two and have two separate rings made out of it - one for her and one for me. She had a fit saying I was destroying the value of the ring. She was right, but the monetary value wasn't important to me. It was the sentimental value. I was wiling to share that because I assumed, at first, that was what was important to her.
She said she either wanted all or nothing. So that's what she got. Nothing. It is now my ring to do with what I choose. I tried to do the right thing, but in the end, it was my decision. Just like it was your uncle's decision to do what he wanted with his item.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 1, 2012 8:55:38 GMT -5
And he'd lose that argument.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 1, 2012 8:56:11 GMT -5
Swamp handles estate work, I believe... I do, but every state has different estate laws.
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