djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2012 23:55:30 GMT -5
I know a historical person with Tea Party sympathies: Here's a hint: " Sic semper tyrannis!" Congratulations! I thought we'd make it the entire thread without a mention of the supposed 'violent tendencies' or even 'terrorist' qualities of members of the TEA Party. I was worried TEA Party opposition might have wised up and would gain more credibility. Thanks for trashing your side of the argument. It's so much easier when the opposition simply collapses into a ball of spitting, writhing and muttering. And here you probably thought you were so clever. Here's a hint for you: it's why you lost in 2010, and it's why 2010 was just a warm up. Paul- did you read Rasmussen's comments in post #71? do you agree or disagree?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 12, 2012 0:00:24 GMT -5
IN other words- there was some serious down-ballot damage done-- and that above posting wasn't even up to date. Mind you that at the time of the elections in 2010 Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 29% as Republicans, and 38% as independents. As of now? A record number-- 40% identify as Independents, Democrats are down to 27%, and Republicans are up to 31%-- just between Democrats and Republicans, there has been a 7 point swing towards the GOP SINCE the GOP allegedly had it's "social issues hissy fit" and has been nothing but a stubborn obstacle in Obama's path.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 12, 2012 0:06:04 GMT -5
Yes- I read your post. I will respond:
1. Where's the evidence of all this optimism out there?
2. Provided you successfully show me evidence of a change in voter mood, and optimism, etc., show me how Mr. Obama gets credited for it?
The right track / wrong track polling has not changed. The fundamental issues haven't changed. It's not about the economy alone.
And did you see the election results I posted? I submit to you that most voters recognize that to the extent we've made economic progress, their newly elected Republican legislatures and governors like Scott Walker and Rick Scott are getting what little political credit voters have patience for-- for the most part, people see that it's them, in spite of government, that deserve the credit.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 12, 2012 0:06:42 GMT -5
2010 was impressive for the Republicans. Christine O'Donnell and Sharron Angle were about the only two major negatives for them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 0:10:50 GMT -5
Actually as of now Gallup has Republicans 27, Dems 30..., independents steady at 42... www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspxI wasn't necessarily saying social issues hissy fit... they are hissy fitting about everything, not just their social issues push... there were some really poor first timers nominated in the last round, i'm doubting many of them see a second term...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 0:11:56 GMT -5
"show me how Mr. Obama gets credit for it" ....
His polls have been rising....
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 12, 2012 0:13:06 GMT -5
IN other words- there was some serious down-ballot damage done-- and that above posting wasn't even up to date. Mind you that at the time of the elections in 2010 Gallup polling found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats, 29% as Republicans, and 38% as independents. As of now? A record number-- 40% identify as Independents, Democrats are down to 27%, and Republicans are up to 31%-- just between Democrats and Republicans, there has been a 7 point swing towards the GOP SINCE the GOP allegedly had it's "social issues hissy fit" and has been nothing but a stubborn obstacle in Obama's path. if you are suddenly a poll fan, you might want to also pay attention to the generic congressional poll, which measures party sentiment in elections. in 2010, the GOP had a 6% edge in this survey. they are currently -2%. this is an 8 point negative swing, which will probably negate the positive identifying numbers you mention above. i am thinking that unless the situation changes dramatically for either party in the next three quarters, the results will likely be a repeat of 2010, and that very little will change.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 12, 2012 0:15:49 GMT -5
"show me how Mr. Obama gets credit for it" .... His polls have been rising.... and this is precisely what we would expect. in 2004, the economy was doing well, and Bush got credit for that. it might not have been deserved, but i don't recall many Republicans complaining about it. four years later, the economy was sucking royal hindquarters, and the GOP took it on the chin. this pattern is pretty consistent. there are very few exceptions. complaining about it is like complaining about the weather, imo.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 12, 2012 0:21:25 GMT -5
"show me how Mr. Obama gets credit for it" .... His polls have been rising.... On handling of the economy?
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Post by traelin0 on Feb 12, 2012 0:24:35 GMT -5
"show me how Mr. Obama gets credit for it" .... His polls have been rising.... Masochism is a fetish in some cultures, America not excepted. I will do my part though. I will vote for Obama if it is a "choice" between Obamney. Better to drive off a cliff with a Ferrari than a Gremlin.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 12, 2012 0:27:12 GMT -5
Obama is set to win a default victory in my mind. Nobody is seriously voting "for" him. He will get the votes of Democrats. The GOP candidate will be a mushy moderate who will NOT get the votes of a lot of the GOP voters. So, in addition to the advantage of incumbency, Obama will enjoy a lack of enthusiasm on the part of GOP voters- and that of course is barring the caveat that Obama manages to piss off enough people that they come out and vote AGAINST him. He's working on it.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 12, 2012 0:27:59 GMT -5
"show me how Mr. Obama gets credit for it" .... His polls have been rising.... Masochism is a fetish in some cultures, America not excepted. I will do my part though. I will vote for Obama if it is a "choice" between Obamney. Better to drive off a cliff with a Ferrari than a Gremlin. Yes, and it'll be better to hang the destruction of the country on the Party most responsible.
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Post by traelin0 on Feb 12, 2012 0:29:22 GMT -5
Masochism is a fetish in some cultures, America not excepted. I will do my part though. I will vote for Obama if it is a "choice" between Obamney. Better to drive off a cliff with a Ferrari than a Gremlin. Yes, and it'll be better to hang the destruction of the country on the Party most responsible. Who's that, the Republicrats, or the average American voter? Seeing as Washington is nothing more than a representation of the inner soul of America, who's really to blame? Voting for Obama means I give the gift of wars AND welfare to America. Voting for Romney maybe the same, but not as fast as I'd like. Voting for Gingrich or Santorum would only give us the wars. Over a year ago I decided it made no sense to use reason and logic to sway people to Ron Paul. Futile, and it goes against the very grain of human nature, that is, to cut out a cancer before it metastasizes.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 12, 2012 0:31:54 GMT -5
"show me how Mr. Obama gets credit for it" .... His polls have been rising.... On handling of the economy? on all sorts of stuff. the basic approval numbers are up, but also the head to head matchup numbers are up. overall, Obama is showing his best numbers in almost a year (with the exception of the "Osama Bounce"), and better than he was polling in November of 2010 by 7%. in fact, other than a couple of short stretches this year, his numbers have not been this good since the "honeymoon period" following his election.
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diamonds
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Post by diamonds on Feb 12, 2012 2:11:15 GMT -5
Obama is set to win a default victory in my mind. Nobody is seriously voting "for" him. He will get the votes of Democrats. The GOP candidate will be a mushy moderate who will NOT get the votes of a lot of the GOP voters. So, in addition to the advantage of incumbency, Obama will enjoy a lack of enthusiasm on the part of GOP voters- and that of course is barring the caveat that Obama manages to piss off enough people that they come out and vote AGAINST him. He's working on it. Great post Paul and agree!!
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Post by zipity on Feb 12, 2012 3:07:44 GMT -5
I see all of this "Republicans need to be more moderate" or "ease up on 'social issues' (roll over on abortion and gay marriage)" I see it for what it is: the opposition trying to pick our candidates. Pick your own candidates and butt out is how I feel about that.
I'd go one better than that, all the right leaning independents and RINOs either in the republican party or who have left over the past 10 years should retake the party and boot out the conservatives who turned the republican party into a bad religious joke. Of course independents and RINOs pick pub candidates, there simply aren't enough conservatives to get the the nomination for the Palins, Bachmanns, Perrys, Cains, Newts and Santorums. That's why there have not been any conservative presidents in recent history. I know you'll argue that Reagan was but even if I agreed that would leave Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Bush 1 and Bush 2 as RINOs. Personally I think the country would be better off if moderates took back the republican party and let conservatives form their own party. The conservative party would instantly join the ranks of the Green Party, Libertarians, the Constitutional party and the Socialist party which based on conservative candidate picks is where they belong.
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Post by stayput on Feb 12, 2012 3:19:30 GMT -5
Obama's attack on the 1st Amendment; class warfare, health care, and the gifts keeps going on and on, has galvanized the Republican party, Independents, and even Blue Dog Democrats against his administration like no individual GOP candidate ever could. Thank you so much Obama.
The only one left who truly appreciates Obama is Jimmy Carter as, until Obama, Carter was going down in the history books as the worst president since the inception of this once great nation. Now Obama has rightfully earned that title. In fact he has so thoroughly screwed this nation, that any future liberal would be hard pressed to even match that level of F#%! Ups
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 12, 2012 9:37:04 GMT -5
... until Obama, Carter was going down in the history books as the worst president...s Nixon was a criminal who ran out of Washington after making a deal to avoid the consequences of his actions. Can't get much worse than that.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 12, 2012 9:40:21 GMT -5
They don't have to re-take it. They've got it. They're doing their level best to silence the conservatives, though I really don't see the point? Why don't they just become Democrats? Unless of course the idea is that there should never be any opposition to the far left and they are seeking to neutralize the opposition by rendering the GOP ineffective.
There are plenty of us. Over 90% of the delegates have yet to be chosen.
That's where things are headed, and it will be a big party one day. It's the GOP that will be relegated to instant super-minority; only I would argue it will not got the way of the Greens, et al, but rather the way of the Whigs- because that's what happens to utterly unprincipled people. There's only one thing that happens to people who stand in the middle of the road.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 12, 2012 9:43:52 GMT -5
... until Obama, Carter was going down in the history books as the worst president...s Nixon was a criminal who ran out of Washington after making a deal to avoid the consequences of his actions. Can't get much worse than that. Well, you'd think you couldn't get worse than that, but let's not forget that Nixon was also responsible for price controls, taking us off the gold standard, and he was also an anti-semite. So, yes- Nixon was pretty bad. So, like Obama- Carter inherited a mess. And like Carter, Obama has made the mess so much worse through weakness abroad, and economic destruction at home.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 10:00:54 GMT -5
I admire the right's ability to continually construct and live in such a vivid alternate reality...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 12, 2012 10:06:51 GMT -5
I admire the right's ability to continually construct and live in such a vivid alternate reality... Yeah, I know we're crazy. A simple, fair, easy to comply with tax code; a balanced budget; freedom of contract, freedom of conscience...crazy talk.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 12, 2012 11:32:26 GMT -5
Obama's attack on the 1st Amendment; class warfare, health care, and the gifts keeps going on and on, has galvanized the Republican party, Independents, and even Blue Dog Democrats against his administration like no individual GOP candidate ever could. Thank you so much Obama. The only one left who truly appreciates Obama is Jimmy Carter as, until Obama, Carter was going down in the history books as the worst president since the inception of this once great nation. Now Obama has rightfully earned that title. In fact he has so thoroughly screwed this nation, that any future liberal would be hard pressed to even match that level of F#%! Ups historians rank Obama as above average, and Carter below average. Carter has nothing to thank Obama for.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 12, 2012 11:35:43 GMT -5
... until Obama, Carter was going down in the history books as the worst president...s Nixon was a criminal who ran out of Washington after making a deal to avoid the consequences of his actions. Can't get much worse than that. Nixon wasn't really that bad. ok, he was pretty bad- but far from the worst. he gets high marks for ambition and innovation. Bush, on the other hand, ranks far below Obama and even Carter according to most people studied in government and governing. he has also been ranked below Nixon since 2008. you have to go back to Hoover to find a president that is more of an abject failure than he.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 12, 2012 11:37:50 GMT -5
Obama is set to win a default victory in my mind. Nobody is seriously voting "for" him. He will get the votes of Democrats. The GOP candidate will be a mushy moderate who will NOT get the votes of a lot of the GOP voters. So, in addition to the advantage of incumbency, Obama will enjoy a lack of enthusiasm on the part of GOP voters- and that of course is barring the caveat that Obama manages to piss off enough people that they come out and vote AGAINST him. He's working on it. i take it that you didn't read Rasmussen's comments at CPAC? this is almost verbatim what he called a losing strategy this year. the basic gist: if the GOP fails to give voters something to vote FOR, they are going to lose.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 12, 2012 11:40:56 GMT -5
Nixon was a criminal who ran out of Washington after making a deal to avoid the consequences of his actions. Can't get much worse than that. Well, you'd think you couldn't get worse than that, but let's not forget that Nixon was also responsible for price controls, taking us off the gold standard, and he was also an anti-semite. So, yes- Nixon was pretty bad. So, like Obama- Carter inherited a mess. And like Carter, Obama has made the mess so much worse through weakness abroad, and economic destruction at home. weakness abroad? how so? it seems to me that Obama was FAR more "successful" abroad than any president in recent memory.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 12, 2012 11:42:26 GMT -5
I admire the right's ability to continually construct and live in such a vivid alternate reality... Yeah, I know we're crazy. A simple, fair, easy to comply with tax code; a balanced budget; freedom of contract, freedom of conscience...crazy talk. ...........none of which were mentioned in this thread before this post.....
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Post by usaone on Feb 12, 2012 12:39:22 GMT -5
I admire the right's ability to continually construct and live in such a vivid alternate reality... Yeah, I know we're crazy. A simple, fair, easy to comply with tax code; a balanced budget; freedom of contract, freedom of conscience...crazy talk. This is why we have no chance of winning in 2012 and why GOP turnout has been so low.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 13, 2012 15:03:21 GMT -5
Nixon was a criminal who ran out of Washington after making a deal to avoid the consequences of his actions. Can't get much worse than that. Nixon wasn't really that bad. ok, he was pretty bad- but far from the worst. he gets high marks for ambition and innovation. Bush, on the other hand, ranks far below Obama and even Carter according to most people studied in government and governing. he has also been ranked below Nixon since 2008. you have to go back to Hoover to find a president that is more of an abject failure than he. Bush and Hoover were a lot alike- big government Republicans.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 13, 2012 15:06:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I know we're crazy. A simple, fair, easy to comply with tax code; a balanced budget; freedom of contract, freedom of conscience...crazy talk. ...........none of which were mentioned in this thread before this post..... It's in the title: TEA Party. Maybe you're unfamiliar, so let me help you: T axed E nough A lready That's what TEA stands for. I didn't realize you didn't know what the TEA Party stood for- limited government, low taxes, individual liberty.
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