No wonder Buffett is pushing Obama's agenda

[zipity]

Wow, the guy makes a measly 3% on a $5 billion dollar investment and all you guys can think of is how Obama's doing him favors? My 401k and IRA have been doing almost twice that, I'm certainly glad Buffet isn't handing my money. Romney at least made somewhere between 8-11% on his investments, he'd be my choice for a fund manager.

On one hand, he is suggesting that the government is good at spending the people's tax dollars (so they should therefore collect more)

This is the new American way, don't take responsibility for paying our bills just borrow money from China and let the next generation deal with it. The new republican party just baffles me, don't take responsibility for our own actions, why worry about the future when the next generation can, and finally demonize the rich if they make money or care about the country. Imagine someone like Romney returning a company to profitability and actually making money off it. Then there's the idiot Buffet actually wanting a tax policy that reduces the deficit.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 11, 2012 12:14:04 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

i hope that satisfies your curiosity. if not, please keep asking me questions about it until you are satisfied. i am really getting tired of the subtle messages from you that you think i am doing anything Mittlike here. i am not.

I'm sorry for what you feel are subtle messages. You are Mitt fucking Jr (is that explicit enough?). You're using your company just like Mitt used his and just like Buffett uses his, just like Gates used his (and his charity) just to a smaller degree.

how so?

[Deleted]

Feb 11, 2012 12:07:18 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Buffett and Gates have both pledged to give more than half of their wealth to charity. Gates is trying to eradicate polio from the earth, improve sanitation across the globe, and bolster the U.S. education system. What a dick!

As an alternative to paying it to the federal government to allocate to the DoE. The government is superior to Gates at Educational matters; he is, after all, just a computer geek. He should leave it up to the Department of Education to fix the US educational system; that is their responsibility.

Do you pay more taxes than you are legally required to? I don't. Isn't it hypocritical to ask him to do any differently?

I take the $2k that the government decreased my SS liability by and contribute it to organizations that work on issues that the federal government is supposed to be covering; like veteran well being after coming home from combat. So, while not giving it directly to the government, I'm making sure it goes towards causes that (a) the US government should be using our tax dollars for and (b) helps US citizens instead of building up other countries at the detriment of our own.

Another difference is that I'm not the one calling for your taxes to be raised. He should set an example to raise his own taxes before requesting the gang of 535 to raise all of our collective taxes. We are the 1% as US citizens.

So the recipients of your giving are more worthy by virtue of their American citizenship? It is Gates' money. He can spend it wherever he wants. U.S. charities don't lose out because he is investing in developing countries. Hell, adults in Malawi might buy a lot more computers if we can keep them from dying of diarrheal diseases when they are kids. He's growing his market.

It is the job of the Veteran's Administration to look after our veterans. But the VA is flawed, so we have charities to pick up the slack. You could send a check to the VA and ask them to look after our veterans, but you choose to send it to a charity, which can be more nimble and responsive to the needs of our returning servicemen and women.

I do the same thing. I voted for a higher library tax in my community. When the initiative failed, I didn't send my contribution to city government in the hopes they would help the libraries - I sent it to the Library Foundation.

How is what you and I do any different than sending a check to an educational non-profit instead of the U.S. Department of Education, exactly?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 11, 2012 12:14:04 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

You can just as easily manipulate the components of your net income to avoid and/or delay taxation...and even make moves that avoid it from coming through as business income taxed at ordinary rates but later taxed at capital gain rates.

can i? huh. maybe i should look into that then. i was under the impression that because of the corporate structure i have, everything i earn is taxed as income. i can't shelter anything and then take it out as a capital gain because it is not allowed. but i guess you know more about how my business are structured than either i or my accountant. fascinating.

[formerexpat]

but that is not what Buffett is doing.

Buffett has already moved his money so it avoids taxes. Taxes are for chumps is his motto and he's got you bought into the idea of paying more. Master manipulator, he's got that on his side.

[handyman2]

Might want to do a little research on Gates and Buffett. If you do you will find the gates foundation with a boost of 30.7 billion from Buffett funds scholarships, funds to school districts and teacher training to raise education levels in the US. Togather they spend millions with the focus on helping education in the US.
The difference between Buffett and the rest of the world was when he saw an opportunity he took it while everbody else was deciding what to do and missed out.

[formerexpat]

If you do you will find the gates foundation with a boost of 30.7 billion from Buffett

...

Togather they spend millions with the focus on helping education in the US.

$30.7bn at 4% yields over $1.2 BILLION a year and they're only spending millions? What a great way to shelter your net worth from the US government!

Again, with their belief that taxes should be higher, they should just give that money directly to the DoE. It's their job to help education in the US. I'm not sure why Gates and Buffett think they can do it better than the federal government? Clearly, the government is the answer and we all need to send more to the government so they can make better decisions with our money than we can.

And if Gates & Buffett can do it better than the federal government, maybe we should cut it out of the federal budget, cut taxes accordingly and allow people to donate that would be tax money to the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation [to which I already contribute].

I think the charities that these people have are awesome. But I think they're full of shit when they say they believe taxes should be higher for them because I see the exact opposite in their estate planning strategies and other actions. Any changes in the tax law would result in equal and opposite countermeasures to avoid the increase in taxes by most rich people. Most people are at least 3 steps ahead of the IRS.

can i? huh. maybe i should look into that then.

Yeah, probably should. Sounds like you need a new accountant too.

But, you're likely doing some of the measures that I'm talking about; investment in your company in and of itself should result in increased value, lower income taxed at ordinary rates in current years and deferred capital gains in later years.

[Deleted]

Why do you trust the DoE and not the VA?

[formerexpat]

This is the new American way, don't take responsibility for paying our bills just borrow money from China and let the next generation deal with it.

Agree wholeheartedly. Those boomers promised themselves all this money; work those fuckers to death until they pay off their debt. I don't want it passed down to my or my children's generation either.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 11, 2012 16:14:31 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

can i? huh. maybe i should look into that then.

Yeah, probably should. Sounds like you need a new accountant too.

why? the law doesn't allow me to take out income as capital gains. are you suggesting i engage in tax fraud?

But, you're likely doing some of the measures that I'm talking about; investment in your company in and of itself should result in increased value,

so what? i am doing it with dollars that the IRS has already taxed me for. that makes the investment LESS tax advantaged than a retirement account. furthermore, the types of "investments" i make in the business will likely DECREASE in real value over the term of the investment, because they are subject to wear and tear. if sold, they will be as a capital loss, overall.

lower income taxed at ordinary rates in current years and deferred capital gains in later years.

nope. i will have NO deferred capital gains unless someone pays me above the book value of my business. and if so, it won't be because of the assets of the business, but because i have made it way more successful than it is presently.

since my profits are being taxed 100% as income, and 0% as capital gains, and since there is no prospect OTHER THAN THE SALE OF THE BUSINESS that would produce any other outcome for me- how does that make my situation in any way analogous to Buffett or Mitt?

[tallguy]

Feb 11, 2012 10:50:11 GMT -5 gavinsnana said:

Feb 11, 2012 9:57:24 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

That is correct. However, Romney is not running around like a fool telling everyone to raise his taxes. That is the issue of hypocrisy. Buffett will not do in voluntarily.

I agree, and since he is bitching about it, he should just write Uncle Sam a big check.
Buffett leaves out the truth about taxes and the rich paying them. He's a buffoon.

He HAS offered to write Uncle Sam a big check. He pledged to match dollar-for-dollar the amount that ALL the COMBINED Republican members of Congress voluntarily donated to the cause of helping pay off the national debt. And would even go three-for-one on the contributions of Mitch McConnell, who stupidly suggested that Mr. Buffett was insincere in his tax beliefs.

So, is he putting his money where his mouth is? Or pinpointing the TRUE hypocrisy of those criticizing him?

[formerexpat]

He pledged to match dollar-for-dollar the amount that ALL the COMBINED Republican members of Congress voluntarily donated to the cause of helping pay off the national debt.

Then he should match the congressional budget amounts that Ron Paul returns every year because that would otherwise increase the national debt. He can also pony up the amount that Paul is foregoing that he'd otherwise receive in the form of a congressional pension.

[tallguy]

Feb 11, 2012 19:14:36 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

He pledged to match dollar-for-dollar the amount that ALL the COMBINED Republican members of Congress voluntarily donated to the cause of helping pay off the national debt.

Then he should match the congressional budget amounts that Ron Paul returns every year because that would otherwise increase the national debt. He can also pony up the amount that Paul is foregoing that he'd otherwise receive in the form of a congressional pension.

While kudos are certainly due for returning the unused part of his congressional allowance, isn't the pension less of an issue? He has chosen not to participate because he considers it immoral. I would guess that also means that he has not been making the contributions to the system in any of those years as well. Plus, unless Congress allows double-dipping, he wouldn't receive any monies from the pension (if he were participating) until after he retires anyway. And while he may not be seeking another term, he is not retired.

[Mkitty is pro kitty]

This post has been deleted for derogatory content.

deminmaine- Moderator

[Deleted]

Feb 11, 2012 12:17:45 GMT -5 zipity said:

Wow, the guy makes a measly 3% on a $5 billion dollar investment and all you guys can think of is how Obama's doing him favors? My 401k and IRA have been doing almost twice that, I'm certainly glad Buffet isn't handing my money. Romney at least made somewhere between 8-11% on his investments, he'd be my choice for a fund manager.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 11, 2012 22:35:08 GMT -5 Mkitty is pro kitty said:

If Buffett didn't make so much money, he'd be a leech, if he didn't want his taxes raised, he'd be greedy. They hate people on welfare, but they hate successful libs almost as much.
Look at GE. Conservatives scream how they don't pay taxes (well only because that guy from GE is associated with Obama), and seem content with other companies that do the same thing. Pretzel factories don't make as many twists as Conservatives in trying to make Buffett like a hypocrite.

Here, fill in the blanks. Buffett is a hypocrite because he expects _________, which is something he doesn't do.

mk- Buffett and Soros are defectors from the dittohead business community, and because of this they are absolute pariahs. the only thing that makes the propaganda work is when everyone agrees, and nobody speaks out against it. Buffett and Soros rip a huge hole in the cloak of BS that the elite in this country use to hide under. they are hated and despised not only by said elite, but by all of those who have swallowed the blue pill along with them. in other words, they have a huge list of enemies. it is little wonder there are so few defectors.

[zipity]

Those boomers promised themselves all this money; work those fuckers to death until they pay off their debt.

That's a great way to solve the problem, piss of the group that has footed the bill for the past 30 years. Boomers didn't promise themselves all this money, the WWII generation promised it. As for working them to death, you'll probably get your wish. In fact if you're not out in front of the pack demanding that everyone pay more to pay down the current debt the then when all the boomers die off, you'll still have plenty to deal with for years to come.

[Deleted]

Boomers didn't promise themselves all this money, the WWII generation promised it.

The problems in social security and medicare have been well known for decades now. Yet the voters have continued to allow the gov't to spend out of control. Issuing IOU's to yourself so you don't have to cut back on anything and pushing the buck down the line is the definition of irresponsible.

Back after WWII people were expected to live only 4-5 years after retiring, if they made it at all. We should follow that idea and bump back retirement age to 75 or higher.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 12, 2012 11:28:41 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Boomers didn't promise themselves all this money, the WWII generation promised it.

The problems in social security and medicare have been well known for decades now. Yet the voters have continued to allow the gov't to spend out of control. Issuing IOU's to yourself so you don't have to cut back on anything and pushing the buck down the line is the definition of irresponsible.

Back after WWII people were expected to live only 4-5 years after retiring, if they made it at all. We should follow that idea and bump back retirement age to 75 or higher.

.............and then index it for life expectancy! YES..>WE....SHOULD!

[formerexpat]

If you substitute "hypocrisy" with "hyperbole," your sentence makes sense. I know they look similar, but they're not. Oh, and how about a link? You know, something to show what you're saying isn't unsubstantiated? Or is that only for other people?

Generally, on this board, we don't provide links for things that are common knowledge. But, if we have to state the obvious with a link:

money.cnn.com/2006/06/25/magazines/fortune/charity1.fortune/

The world's second richest man - who's now worth $44 billion - tells editor-at-large Carol Loomis he will start giving away 85% of his wealth in July - most of it to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

In other news, the sky is blue (for most of the time)...and here is the proof:

[formerexpat]

Boomers didn't promise themselves all this money, the WWII generation promised it.

The boomer generation spans from 1946 to 1964. The last SS reform was laid out pretty clearly what needed to be done and the government fell well short of those needs during the reform that took place in 1983; while the boomer generation was between the ages of 19 and 37. At the time, the SOA determined that the age of retirement needed to be increased to 70, at a minimum.

Here is the retirement age table...pretty convenient how the age increase is only 2 months and tops out at 67 - entirely for the benefit of the boomers:

www.socialsecurity.gov/retire2/agereduction.htm

During the subsequent 28 years to where we are now, the boomer generation continued to promise themselves various benefits that were unfunded [mostly changes to Medicare payments].

Gen Y, being just 13 million people smaller, will turn the tables as they become the majority voting block and find ways to vastly reduce the promises that the boomer generation made to themselves.

The boomer generation (collectively, not every one) will go down as the worst generation. They've taken a great nation and run it into the ground. They were flying high in the 80's and 90's, borrowing from their home in the 00's, without saving for a rainy day with the expectation that Gen X and Y would pick up the tab.

[usaone]

Feb 12, 2012 0:22:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 11, 2012 22:35:08 GMT -5 Mkitty is pro kitty said:

If Buffett didn't make so much money, he'd be a leech, if he didn't want his taxes raised, he'd be greedy. They hate people on welfare, but they hate successful libs almost as much.
Look at GE. Conservatives scream how they don't pay taxes (well only because that guy from GE is associated with Obama), and seem content with other companies that do the same thing. Pretzel factories don't make as many twists as Conservatives in trying to make Buffett like a hypocrite.

Here, fill in the blanks. Buffett is a hypocrite because he expects _________, which is something he doesn't do.

mk- Buffett and Soros are defectors from the dittohead business community, and because of this they are absolute pariahs. the only thing that makes the propaganda work is when everyone agrees, and nobody speaks out against it. Buffett and Soros rip a huge hole in the cloak of BS that the elite in this country use to hide under. they are hated and despised not only by said elite, but by all of those who have swallowed the blue pill along with them. in other words, they have a huge list of enemies. it is little wonder there are so few defectors.

I agree. And more and more of the 1% are coming out in favor of higher taxes.

[Don Perignon]

If Buffett had exercised his warrants Friday morning, he would have made $847 million. $154 million of that profit would have been related to the foreclosure deal.

This is not the first time Buffett has profited from Obama administration policies.

The first word of the quoted passage is "If"... IF.

If pigs had wings Delta Airlines could have mergered with Jimmy Dean Pork Sausages.

If Buffet has NOT exercised his option, what then?

[formerexpat]

The first word of the quoted passage is "If"... IF.
...
If Buffet has NOT exercised his option, what then?

www.darwinsfinance.com/trade-stock-options-work-call-put/

I'm hoping Darwin can help...if not, you might be a lost cause on this subject.

[zipity]

The problems in social security and medicare have been well known for decades now. Yet the voters have continued to allow the gov't to spend out of control. Issuing IOU's to yourself so you don't have to cut back on anything and pushing the buck down the line is the definition of irresponsible.

Spending is only a problem when you don't pay your bill. If you look at a chart of the deficit it becomes clear that it wasn't out of control until 2002/2003. Cutting taxes and fighting 2 wars isn't a recipe for a small deficit.

[zipity]

The boomer generation (collectively, not every one) will go down as the worst generation. They've taken a great nation and run it into the ground. They were flying high in the 80's and 90's, borrowing from their home in the 00's, without saving for a rainy day with the expectation that Gen X and Y would pick up the tab.

Life was great in the 80s and 90s because in the 50s and 60s most of the world was still recovering from WWII while the US was pushing technology to its limits. While Asia and Europe were trying to get off their butts in the 60s we, thanks to US tax dollars and federal spending, headed to the moon. The technology advances and industries launch as a result of that initiative propelled us into the 80s and 90s as a world leader. However instead of continuing to push the otter edge, the 80s and 90s saw taxes cut along with new federal research initiatives. One internet bubble and one housing bubble later and half the country is content to cut taxes and spending all the while hoping that a new era of success will stumble upon us. If they boomers pass without launching that new era, Gen X and Y are pretty much screwed because although they've seen good years, they don't have a clue what it takes to create them. However they still may do ok in the employ of overseas companies.

[formerexpat]

Sorry, if you overpay, they send the difference back. Can we put that tired old dog of an argument to rest?

How about this alternative...

www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/gift/gift.htm

Maybe a tired old dog needs some rest because she's a bit off her game.

[formerexpat]

This post is deleted as it quotes derogatory content and further adds insult.

deminmaine- Moderator

[Don Perignon]

This post is deleted.

deminmaine- Moderator.

[formerexpat]

And deleted.

deminmaine- Moderator.