formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 10, 2012 18:59:29 GMT -5
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 10, 2012 19:01:44 GMT -5
Yeah, yeah, yeah....we all know about Buffett's Keystone Pipeline interests.....
Got to admit it, Buffett has played Obama like a fiddle.
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on Feb 10, 2012 19:05:57 GMT -5
It would have come out earlier but the accountants were trying to figure out if it was a rounding error.
Anyway, Buffett needs to sod off and die before he does anymore damage. He is perfectly free to practice what he preaches and give as much to the government as he wants. Leave the rest of us alone.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2012 19:08:49 GMT -5
I'm amused at the people who think Buffett is a saint and doesn't look out for his self-interest.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 10, 2012 19:12:21 GMT -5
Buffett is a very skilled "capitalist pig". There was a time when I would look to see what he was investing in and consider that into investing decisions.....
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 10, 2012 19:16:37 GMT -5
KARMA FOR EVERYONE IN THIS **** THREAD....!!!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 10, 2012 20:23:21 GMT -5
Yeah, yeah, yeah....we all know about Buffett's Keystone Pipeline interests..... Got to admit it, Buffett has played Obama like a fiddle. it is not just Buffett. you guys know that, right? the rich play congress like a fiddle. period. it has been going on since 1787, probably longer.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 10, 2012 22:32:53 GMT -5
I agree with djlungrot all the way but guess some will dispute any suggestion that any of this stuff goes on up there on the hill.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Feb 10, 2012 23:25:39 GMT -5
Buffett did not get to where he is being a timid player. He understands how the system works. He would make one heck of a chess player. I am sure he studies everything indepth before he makes his move. I don't doubt he has had some losers but more winners. I would say it is not about the money at this point, but the game.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2012 0:55:46 GMT -5
Buffett did not get to where he is being a timid player. He understands how the system works. He would make one heck of a chess player. I am sure he studies everything indepth before he makes his move. I don't doubt he has had some losers but more winners. I would say it is not about the money at this point, but the game. oh he does. and the proof is how few investments he actually makes. i am SURE the number is less than 50 in 50 years.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2012 8:40:43 GMT -5
I'm amused at the people who think Buffett is a saint and doesn't look out for his self-interest. I don't think he is a saint. He is a guy who said "you should make me pay more taxes." That doesn't mean he isn't a shrewd businessman and successful capitalist. I'm not seeing the hypocricy.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 11, 2012 9:41:48 GMT -5
I'm amused at the people who think Buffett is a saint and doesn't look out for his self-interest. I don't think he is a saint. He is a guy who said "you should make me pay more taxes." That doesn't mean he isn't a shrewd businessman and successful capitalist. I'm not seeing the hypocricy. The hypocrisy is that there is no one in the US who has his life and financial life arranged to avoid and minimize taxes on his income and wealth more, than Warren Buffett.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2012 9:48:52 GMT -5
But that is the same rock they throw at Mitt Romney. He arranges his business interests to his best financial advantage. The laws are dumb. Using the dumb laws to your advantage is smart.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 11, 2012 9:57:24 GMT -5
But that is the same rock they throw at Mitt Romney. He arranges his business interests to his best financial advantage. The laws are dumb. Using the dumb laws to your advantage is smart. That is correct. However, Romney is not running around like a fool telling everyone to raise his taxes. That is the issue of hypocrisy. Buffett will not do in voluntarily.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2012 10:45:10 GMT -5
But that is the same rock they throw at Mitt Romney. He arranges his business interests to his best financial advantage. The laws are dumb. Using the dumb laws to your advantage is smart. That is correct. However, Romney is not running around like a fool telling everyone to raise his taxes. That is the issue of hypocrisy. Buffett will not do in voluntarily. there are countless examples of mandated things that nobody wants to do, but are necessary for a variety of reasons: participating in the census, subjecting oneself to draft registration, paying ANY taxes whatsoever, maintaining a vehicle in roadworthy condition, producing ID when it is solicited by police agencies, etc etc etc. seeing the necessity for them even when you wouldn't voluntarily do it doesn't make you a hypocrite (though willfully violating the law would, imo). hypocrisy would be if he was asking for something to be done TO OTHERS which did not apply TO HIM. i don't see that with Buffett.
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gavinsnana
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Post by gavinsnana on Feb 11, 2012 10:48:21 GMT -5
Yeah, yeah, yeah....we all know about Buffett's Keystone Pipeline interests..... Got to admit it, Buffett has played Obama like a fiddle.
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gavinsnana
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Post by gavinsnana on Feb 11, 2012 10:50:11 GMT -5
But that is the same rock they throw at Mitt Romney. He arranges his business interests to his best financial advantage. The laws are dumb. Using the dumb laws to your advantage is smart. That is correct. However, Romney is not running around like a fool telling everyone to raise his taxes. That is the issue of hypocrisy. Buffett will not do in voluntarily. I agree, and since he is bitching about it, he should just write Uncle Sam a big check. Buffett leaves out the truth about taxes and the rich paying them. He's a buffoon.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2012 10:56:12 GMT -5
That is correct. However, Romney is not running around like a fool telling everyone to raise his taxes. That is the issue of hypocrisy. Buffett will not do in voluntarily. I agree, and since he is bitching about it, he should just write Uncle Sam a big check. i don't think bitching fairly describes what he is doing.Buffett leaves out the truth about taxes and the rich paying them. He's a buffoon. what do you mean by "buffoon", nana? Webster says it means "ill educated and/or mentally deficient". is that what you meant?
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 11, 2012 11:01:34 GMT -5
The hypocrisy is while Buffett says this, he deliberately makes moves to avoid the the death tax...as does Bill Gates, and setting up almost all his compensation as capital gains...it's reported that his secretary makes a higher salary than he does. Not only that, but most all of the money in the Gates foundation is SPENT OUTSIDE OF THE US. Nothing like a big middle finger to US citizens. On one hand, he is suggesting that the government is good at spending the people's tax dollars (so they should therefore collect more) and with the other, he's creating a strategy to almost entirely avoid the death tax. Buffett should voluntarily pay more taxes - here is the link - www.pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstance.html?agencyFormId=23779454I think he'd have a leg to stand on if the federal deficit weren't $1.3 trillion a year. Let's get the spending side of the equation under control and eliminate the leeches from the system. Then, ask the citizens to make sacrifices.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2012 11:07:06 GMT -5
The hypocrisy is while Buffett says this, he deliberately makes moves to avoid the the death tax... if he does so legally, and doesn't suggest that others should NOT shelter their taxes under the current system, that is not hypocrisy. but i will grant you that if he is doing it ILLEGALLY, or asking others to NOT do what he does under the current system, that is hypocrisy. is he?
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 11, 2012 11:30:54 GMT -5
If he's not putting his money where his mouth is, he's a hypocrite. I've already sent him a letter with the link I posted above, asking him to contribute to the debt so he can show the American public that he puts his money where his mouth is on the subject. I haven't heard back from him.
Being compelled to pay more in taxes does not mean you're a good, patriotic American; it means you realize the IRS can fuck you over pretty easily.
He could be a great example that I'm sure many people would follow if they saw that his actions were consistent with his words. Anyone can talk a good game, I want to see it.
BTW, out of curiosity, when you sell your business, what tax rate will those gains that you've been keeping in the company be taxed at since you're taking an artificially low salary?
Do you believe the investment risk you take with your company is different than the compensation that employees get paid as an exchange for services / work they provide to a company?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2012 11:37:28 GMT -5
The hypocrisy is while Buffett says this, he deliberately makes moves to avoid the the death tax...as does Bill Gates, and setting up almost all his compensation as capital gains...it's reported that his secretary makes a higher salary than he does. Not only that, but most all of the money in the Gates foundation is SPENT OUTSIDE OF THE US. Nothing like a big middle finger to US citizens. On one hand, he is suggesting that the government is good at spending the people's tax dollars (so they should therefore collect more) and with the other, he's creating a strategy to almost entirely avoid the death tax. Buffett should voluntarily pay more taxes - here is the link - www.pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstance.html?agencyFormId=23779454I think he'd have a leg to stand on if the federal deficit weren't $1.3 trillion a year. Let's get the spending side of the equation under control and eliminate the leeches from the system. Then, ask the citizens to make sacrifices. You still haven't demonstrated any hypocricy. Buffett and Gates have both pledged to give more than half of their wealth to charity. Gates is trying to eradicate polio from the earth, improve sanitation across the globe, and bolster the U.S. education system. What a dick!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2012 11:40:22 GMT -5
If he's not putting his money where his mouth is, he's a hypocrite. I've already sent him a letter with the link I posted above, asking him to contribute to the debt so he can show the American public that he puts his money where his mouth is on the subject. I haven't heard back from him. Being compelled to pay more in taxes does not mean you're a good, patriotic American; it means you realize the IRS can fuck you over pretty easily. He could be a great example that I'm sure many people would follow if they saw that his actions were consistent with his words. Anyone can talk a good game, I want to see it. BTW, out of curiosity, when you sell your business, what tax rate will those gains that you've been keeping in the company be taxed at since you're taking an artificially low salary? Do you believe the investment risk you take with your company is different than the compensation that employees get paid as an exchange for services / work they provide to a company? Do you pay more taxes than you are legally required to? I don't. Isn't it hypocritical to ask him to do any differently?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2012 11:44:51 GMT -5
If he's not putting his money where his mouth is, he's a hypocrite. I've already sent him a letter with the link I posted above, asking him to contribute to the debt so he can show the American public that he puts his money where his mouth is on the subject. I haven't heard back from him. Being compelled to pay more in taxes does not mean you're a good, patriotic American; it means you realize the IRS can fuck you over pretty easily. He could be a great example that I'm sure many people would follow if they saw that his actions were consistent with his words. Anyone can talk a good game, I want to see it. BTW, out of curiosity, when you sell your business, what tax rate will those gains that you've been keeping in the company be taxed at since you're taking an artificially low salary? Do you believe the investment risk you take with your company is different than the compensation that employees get paid as an exchange for services / work they provide to a company? Do you pay more taxes than you are legally required to? I don't. Isn't it hypocritical to ask him to do any differently? wow. that is an amazingly good catch. well done, cs. that is a picture perfect definition of hypocrisy: asking Buffett to do something (donate his taxes) that he neither WANTS to do, nor is asking anyone else to do, when you are unwilling to do it yourself.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2012 11:48:22 GMT -5
If he's not putting his money where his mouth is, he's a hypocrite. if he were asking others to donate money to the government, i would agree with you. but he isn't. so i don't.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2012 11:50:09 GMT -5
that's nice. but he is actually not asking Americans to do so voluntarily, so you really don't have a case for asking him to do so.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2012 11:55:40 GMT -5
you keep harping on about this, but i am not taking an artificially low salary (the government won't allow that), and all of the retained earnings are taxed AS INCOME. because of that, any retained earnings that i get out of the business as a result of sale will have no taxable consequences. only the value "above and beyond" what has been retained will be taxable as capital gain. i would have no problem whatsoever paying 20, 25, 30% in taxes on those gains, as compared to the retained earnings, they will likely be minimal. i hope that satisfies your curiosity. if not, please keep asking me questions about it until you are satisfied. i am really getting tired of the subtle messages from you that you think i am doing anything Mittlike here. i am not.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 11, 2012 12:07:18 GMT -5
As an alternative to paying it to the federal government to allocate to the DoE. The government is superior to Gates at Educational matters; he is, after all, just a computer geek. He should leave it up to the Department of Education to fix the US educational system; that is their responsibility.
I take the $2k that the government decreased my SS liability by and contribute it to organizations that work on issues that the federal government is supposed to be covering; like veteran well being after coming home from combat. So, while not giving it directly to the government, I'm making sure it goes towards causes that (a) the US government should be using our tax dollars for and (b) helps US citizens instead of building up other countries at the detriment of our own.
Another difference is that I'm not the one calling for your taxes to be raised. He should set an example to raise his own taxes before requesting the gang of 535 to raise all of our collective taxes. We are the 1% as US citizens.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 11, 2012 12:14:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry for what you feel are subtle messages. You are Mitt fucking Jr (is that explicit enough?). You're using your company just like Mitt used his and just like Buffett uses his, just like Gates used his (and his charity) just to a smaller degree.
Every business owner uses it to that effect and they're allowed to within the confines of the tax law.
You can just as easily manipulate the components of your net income to avoid and/or delay taxation...and even make moves that avoid it from coming through as business income taxed at ordinary rates but later taxed at capital gain rates.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2012 12:17:00 GMT -5
Another difference is that I'm not the one calling for your taxes to be raised. He should set an example to raise his own taxes before requesting the gang of 535 to raise all of our collective taxes. We are the 1% as US citizens. no, you are right. if you WERE asking to have our taxes raised, that would be hypocritical of you, because you are NOT willing to have YOURS raised. but that is not what Buffett is doing.
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