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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 17:47:56 GMT -5
Don't know about the rest of the country but the 8.3 numbers don't come close to the unemployed people around here. it varies from place to place. some places are running into the low 5% range in unemployment, others are around 10%
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 17:49:37 GMT -5
The media had an easy time of carrying Obama's water in 2008. You had BDS, or Bush Derangement Syndrome on the left is it deranged to think ill of the worst president since Hoover?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2012 17:50:24 GMT -5
"Or we could argue that we would all be rich if we imposed a 110% tax on everything?" Well now you're just being plain silly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "70% of economic growth during the Naughties was due to home equity borrowing. when that leg came out from under the stool, down went the economy." I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand that. Also, I can't wait until I'm old and can start talking about "Way back in naught three...."
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 17:50:51 GMT -5
The media had an easy time of carrying Obama's water in 2008. You had BDS, or Bush Derangement Syndrome on the left, disaffected conservatives angry over the Bush domestic "compassionate conservative" agenda of bigger government, and more spending, topped with the cherry of TARP on his way out of office with McCain suspending his campaign to fly back to Washington, and rather than take a stand, dive RINO-head-first into supporting TARP. On the other hand, you had a young, good looking, hope-on-a-rope selling, potential first black president running on the promise to fix this mess by cutting the deficit in half, restoring civil liberties lost with the Patriot Act, bringing the troops home from Iraq, mounting an Afghan 'surge' to win where the 'real war' was- and he basically had no real record to judge him on. Today, things are vastly different. Business-as-usual would be a significant upgrade. Obama, as it has turned out is as big a spender as LBJ and as crooked as Nixon. He's like the worst of all worlds. November will be a referendum on more than $4 trillion in new debt with no end in sight to trillion plus dollar deficits. It'll be a referendum on bailouts, on fast and furious, on Solyndra and a half dozen other failed 'green economy' companies that took taxpayer money, made big donations to Democrats and Obama, and then went under and fired all their workers. It'll be decision time for ObamaCare, and the Keystone Pipeline decision. And if you think the media will be able to pull it off, well- you might be right. The GOP is in the process of blowing it out their ass again by nominating another weak, Bob Dole / John McCain style RINO. But it may just be that disenchantment with Obama will be enough to drag Mitt huffing and puffing across the finish line. The media did not hand Obama the election. He will be just as hard to beat this time around. To pretend he wont be only hurts Republicans. Fox news has the biggest rating of any media. Didnt seem to help MCcain/Palin. i would argue that it did help them, quite a bit. instead of losing virtually everything, they merely lost.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 17:51:48 GMT -5
"Or we could argue that we would all be rich if we imposed a 110% tax on everything?" Well now you're just being plain silly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "70% of economic growth during the Naughties was due to home equity borrowing. when that leg came out from under the stool, down went the economy." I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand that. Also, I can't wait until I'm old and can start talking about "Way back in naught three...." the only thing surprising about that stretch was how well GDP did. nothing else about it surprised me.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 17:55:20 GMT -5
I guess some Republicans want to ignore the housing bubble and bust. The employment picture isnt great but its much improved over 2008 and 2009. And seems to be headed in the right direction. The housing bubble started in the early 90s. In fact, Obama was part of the problem back then as an activist in Chicago. i would say mid-90's. we had a housing recession in the early 90's. i know. it was when i bought my first home.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 17:56:20 GMT -5
www.sacbee.com/2012/02/02/4235116/employment-gains-arent-attracting.htmlEmployment gains aren't attracting believers yet WASHINGTON — Employment statistics and the jobless rate have improved over the past several months. These usually point to a rebounding economy, but there's still considerable doubt over just what these numbers really mean. Then there's the workforce-exit problem. One reason the jobless rate stood at 8.5 percent in December is that the labor force is smaller now. The workforce participation rate was around 64 percent for most of last year, well below the 67 percent rate a decade earlier.Millions of workers either have given up on looking for jobs or have exhausted their unemployment benefits and can't get back into the workforce. In either case, the workforce size isn't growing sharply as the economy improves."I do believe that it's artificially making the unemployment rate, as it is defined, look better," said Heidi Shierholz, a labor economist with the liberal Economic Policy Institute. She isn't betting on a jobs recovery anytime soon. "They're not coming back yet. Honestly, I don't expect them to come back until ... jobs prospects improve substantially."Shierholz points to four available workers competing for every job opening and predicts a long, slow climb ahead. "It's still an incredibly hostile environment for job seekers. It won't pull in workers from the sidelines. It will take sustained robust growth," she said. That article was from yesterday before the Jan numbers came out. employment is pretty strong in the Sacramento area right now.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 17:58:02 GMT -5
mjperry.blogspot.com/2012/02/interesting-facts-from-todays.htmlLarge employment gains are in the temporary worker category and oil and gas extraction industry. Some highlights of today's employment report (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf): 1. Temporary employment reached a 3.5-year high in January of 2.4 million jobs, the highest level since May 2008 (see chart). 2. Manufacturing overtime hours, at 4.3 hours in January, were at the highest level since 2006 (see chart). 3. Manufacturing companies hired an additional 50,000 workers in January, bringing the 12-month total of new manufacturing jobs to 235,000, and the 24-month total of new manufacturing jobs to almost 400,000. 4. For the eighth consecutive month starting last June, the January manufacturing jobless rate was below the national average rate (not seasonally adjusted). 5. The construction industry has added more than 50,000 jobs in the last two months. 6. Oil and gas extraction employment has increased by 14.2% over the last 12 months to 186,100, the highest level in 20 years. Update: 7. The more comprehensive measure of employment from the BLS household survey (civilian employment) showed a 847,000 job increase in January, the greatest monthly increase since 2003, and brings the total job increase over the last 12 months to 2.3 million. Sav this chart seems to show most jobs created under Bush were Temp jobs. yep. and BOTH OT AND TEMP HELP BOTTOMED OUT ABOUT THE TIME OBAMA TOOK OFFICE. Obama should campaign with that chart.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 17:59:41 GMT -5
Sav this chart seems to show most jobs created under Bush were Temp jobs. With the unemployment rate so low under Bush, remember it was around 4%, it was hard to find full time employees. it was 4% when Bush took office. it was 6% at the end of his first term. it was 8% at the end of his second term. and we are supposed to THANK BUSH for something?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 3, 2012 18:00:27 GMT -5
Obama will be a formidable foe. What worries me about the GOP establishment and the candidates like Romney they support is that I don't think they think it is possible to beat Obama. I say difficult, not impossible. The prevailing theory in the GOP establishment is to nominate someone that won't piss everyone off the way they think a Newt-type TEA Party candidate would, and that way at least they've got a shot at holding the house and taking back the Senate.
Over here where I live- in reality land, I realize that unless the GOP nominates someone with big ideas, a plan for real, fundamental change that shrinks government, cuts spending, lowers taxes, and puts the "Open for Business" sign back up on America, most voters will simply not bother to vote at all and Obama will easily win re-election.
My theory is that we ought to at least have the argument. Romney is not the person to champion the cause of conservatism. I don't even begin with the premise that he is conservative, but for the sake of argument let's say he is-- it's like having the new convert preach the sermon this Sunday. No thanks.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 18:01:26 GMT -5
NPR this morning had a guy saying that the only reason the rate went down was because people have given up and stopped looking. This was NPR, not Fox. So I'm guessing that NPR isn't liberal after all - they just hate everyone in office, and love all lesbians and stuff. LOL!!! i think NPR is centrist. but that probably says more about me than NPR.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 3, 2012 18:01:52 GMT -5
Most workers are going to be temps going forward anyway. Companies are going to rely on third party administrators to manage employees-- it's the next step in the evolution of human resources. Get used to it.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 18:02:31 GMT -5
Obama will be a formidable foe. What worries me about the GOP establishment and the candidates like Romney they support is that I don't think they think it is possible to beat Obama. what worries me is that Romney can't seem to go ONE DAY without saying something politically stupid. he is reminding me of why McCain beat him.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 18:04:02 GMT -5
Since posters here are claiming that tax reduction creates jobs don't know why they are saying that. the Bush Tax Cuts have not created a single job in over a decade.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 18:04:48 GMT -5
"Of course, the side effect will be unimaginable debt" Oh, you've got it all wrong. Because as taxes approach zero and unemployment approaches 100%, income approaches infinity. So therefore, we just need to set the tax rate at 0.001% and everything will be cool. Don't worry about it.... something tells me that Bob had limit theory in college.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 3, 2012 18:04:53 GMT -5
I guess some Republicans want to ignore the housing bubble and bust. The employment picture isnt great but its much improved over 2008 and 2009. And seems to be headed in the right direction. No, most of us remember the Democrat-caused housing mess that led to the current mess we're in, and the knee-jerk over-regulation that is stalling the recovery.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 18:05:36 GMT -5
Or we could argue that we would all be rich if we imposed a 110% tax on everything? LOL! how about a 110% income tax on income over $1M? ;]
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 3, 2012 18:05:37 GMT -5
Since posters here are claiming that tax reduction creates jobs don't know why they are saying that. the Bush Tax Cuts have not created a single job in over a decade. You can have that fight with Obama. Because the fact is, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts, and now he's claiming job creation.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 18:06:46 GMT -5
don't know why they are saying that. the Bush Tax Cuts have not created a single job in over a decade. You can have that fight with Obama. Because the fact is, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts, and now he's claiming job creation. why? i am a Ron Paul Republican. i would rather fight my own party for their failure to do anything to solve the problem. wouldn't you? PS- Obama can't even make that claim by fudging the numbers. his jobs record thusfar is worse than W's.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 3, 2012 18:09:20 GMT -5
Obama will be a formidable foe. What worries me about the GOP establishment and the candidates like Romney they support is that I don't think they think it is possible to beat Obama. what worries me is that Romney can't seem to go ONE DAY without saying something politically stupid. he is reminding me of why McCain beat him. Yep. And conservatives, exasperated from carrying the water for both Bush, and trying to drag McCain kicking and screaming across the finish line in '08 aren't in any mood to support this RINO. We've had it. We want a conservative. If a president is going to destroy America, best to hang it on Obama.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 3, 2012 18:12:31 GMT -5
what worries me is that Romney can't seem to go ONE DAY without saying something politically stupid. he is reminding me of why McCain beat him. Yep. And conservatives, exasperated from carrying the water for both Bush, and trying to drag McCain kicking and screaming across the finish line in '08 aren't in any mood to support this RINO. We've had it. We want a conservative. If a president is going to destroy America, best to hang it on Obama. i am starting to thing that by 2016, we can run a libertarian and win.
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 3, 2012 18:19:55 GMT -5
Yep. And conservatives, exasperated from carrying the water for both Bush, and trying to drag McCain kicking and screaming across the finish line in '08 aren't in any mood to support this RINO. We've had it. We want a conservative. If a president is going to destroy America, best to hang it on Obama. i am starting to thing that by 2016, we can run a libertarian and win. If a Republican wins this year, I agree with you that is a possibility. I think that Americans will give Republicans one more shot, this year or 2016 before electing a non-Democrat/Republican.
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Post by usaone on Feb 3, 2012 18:22:44 GMT -5
The Democrats did not cause the housing bubble.
Both the dems and the Repubs want to help lower middle class people get into homes. Fine. Not the right thing to do, but that by itself would not have sunk the economy.
Banks handing out no Doc loans, allowing people to finance 120% mortgages ARM's ect along with CDO's and all the rest are what did it.
Lack of Regulation and a lack of enforcing what little Regulations that are left are also a big part of the problem.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 3, 2012 18:27:35 GMT -5
Housing prices were inflated by increasing demand to create "equity" which people could borrow against allowing consumer demand to continue in spite of stagnant wages.
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Post by vandalshandle on Feb 3, 2012 18:40:48 GMT -5
I don't know why everyone thinks that unemployment is so bad. I've been unemployed ever since 8/26/05 (Katrina), and I think it is fantastic! Both my volleyball and my chess have improved dramatically!
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Post by rockon on Feb 3, 2012 18:53:29 GMT -5
"If a Republican wins this year, I agree with you that is a possibility. I think that Americans will give Republicans one more shot, this year or 2016 before electing a non-Democrat/Republican."
The table is already set for whoever wins this next election. IMO we need to get Obama out regardless who the other candidate is just to try and slow this train down but we will not likely see any directional change until a third party can get control of the current political monopoly.
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 3, 2012 19:05:25 GMT -5
"If a Republican wins this year, I agree with you that is a possibility. I think that Americans will give Republicans one more shot, this year or 2016 before electing a non-Democrat/Republican." The table is already set for whoever wins this next election. IMO we need to get Obama out regardless who the other candidate is just to try and slow this train down but we will not likely see any directional change until a third party can get control of the current political monopoly. Obama just jumped on the train when it was starting to really accelerate. He is incidental to the event happening. His absence would have no impact either.
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Post by rockon on Feb 3, 2012 19:15:20 GMT -5
So "Mr. Nobody" was responsible again!!!
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 3, 2012 20:10:10 GMT -5
So "Mr. Nobody" was responsible again!!! The Eternal Truths An eschatological laundry list -- a partial register of the 927 (or was it 928?) eternal truths by Sheldon Kopp, author of GURU ... 37. It is most important to run out of scapegoats.
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Post by usaone on Feb 3, 2012 20:14:50 GMT -5
Well the last time we had a credible 3rd party candidate was 1992 after 12 years of Reagan/Bush.
Most of those years were pretty good, other than running up the National Debt.
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