Elitist scumbag talks health care

[EVT1]

No doubt- what is the 5 year outlook for someone diagnosed with cancer without insurance or one who loses their insurance during treatment?

What about one diagnosed at the ER that went untreated for years because of no access to a PCP?

The US has graves full of people that would be alive today had they lived in another country with universal care.

I can't imagine how nice it is for the Canadians and others who have the freedom to live their lives without regard to insurance companies. To sleep at night knowing one's home and possessions are secure and never at risk due to medical bills, to know loved ones will be taken care of no matter what.

People like Santorum know, most of us do not. Most of the US posters preaching against UHC don't know either- they just think they do. It's a roll of the dice in this country unless you are very wealthy.

[EVT1]

I saw it happen to someone- lost their house and all over a sick child.

The usual scenario is when the policyholder has a serious condition- first the job goes, then the insurance- and this assumes that the insurance company pays what it is supposed to- another battle one must fight along side the disease. The added stress alone from medical bills and insurance companies might just kill you. The majority of Americans are at risk for this no matter how sweet they think they might be sitting or how many policies they might be holding- this system can bleed you dry and fast- a foreign concept to those in countries where the citizens figured out a long time ago that taking care of people should come first. I don't know if we will ever learn- and one particular group is trying to make sure we never do by demonizing other systems and touting that America is number one bullshit- we lost that spot a long time ago- if we ever really had it.

[rockon]

The access to treatment in Canada is not what it is here regardless of posters claims. I have many friends and relatives there who prefer coming to this country because of the limited access or long wait for treatment there. While I'm not claiming our system couldn't be improved a lot I'm quite sure a government ran system is not the answer. Also has anyone researched or heard the whole story about this subject boy or what his real situation is? Has he been denied service or going without treatment now? He doesn't qualify for any assistance now?

[EVT1]

Of course it isn't- access to care is much better in Canada. The only Canadians coming here are the ones that can afford to pay out of pocket and don't want to wait behind someone with a more urgent need. Shall I say it- maybe 1% of Canadians? Actually I am sure it is much less than that- and you cannot count those near the border that have their treatment paid for either- that is strictly logistics.

I have friends in a lot of countries and it is unanimous that none of them would switch to our system- but maybe my friends aren't as wealthy as yours and can't afford to fly to the US and shell out 50K or more to get a procedure a little quicker. US health care may be the best treatment that money can buy- but looking at the entire system and how it works for the population it is supposed to serve- it fails miserably. If you judge a country by how it treats its citizens, we are a disgrace. I am not afraid to say our team sucks- sure I want the US to be the best, but for now we aren't even in the running for a top health care system. We aren't in the running for number one for much of anything anymore.

[weltschmerz]

I can't imagine how nice it is for the Canadians and others who have the freedom to live their lives without regard to insurance companies. To sleep at night knowing one's home and possessions are secure and never at risk due to medical bills, to know loved ones will be taken care of no matter what.
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It's very nice. When we had to give up our insurance in California, I felt really scared.

[weltschmerz]

Of course it isn't- access to care is much better in Canada. The only Canadians coming here are the ones that can afford to pay out of pocket and don't want to wait behind someone with a more urgent need. Shall I say it- maybe 1% of Canadians?
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It's actually much less than 1%.
Care is excellent for urgent needs. If people just don't feel like waiting for non-urgent elective surgery, by all means...let them go to the US and pay out of pocket. Shortens the line for the rest of us.

[EVT1]

Feb 2, 2012 22:56:25 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Of course it isn't- access to care is much better in Canada. The only Canadians coming here are the ones that can afford to pay out of pocket and don't want to wait behind someone with a more urgent need. Shall I say it- maybe 1% of Canadians?
----------------------
It's actually much less than 1%.
Care is excellent for urgent needs. If people just don't feel like waiting for non-urgent elective surgery, by all means...let them go to the US and pay out of pocket. Shortens the line for the rest of us.

I think that is a great idea- why not have both options. Everyone pays into a national system where everyone is covered and taken care of, but go ahead and allow some of the concierge clinics to pander to the rich- I remember some article a while back where they have their bullshit decorated rooms with all of the opulent crap that goes with it- ostensibely to make them feel at home. Well- you are not at home- and you might die a nasty death like anyone else and your money isn't going to help you. The only decent thing society can and should do is to allow everyone a fair shot at life- if this offends you then you offend me.

[rockon]

In reality we already have many tax-payer funded health care programs that provide many safety nets for qualifying individuals that cover almost anyone who chooses to enroll in them. the real question that needs addressed is how to make our national health care cost less or how to make it more affordable for the average citizen.
Insurance while often a necessity to protect against unmanageable emergency costs or expenses should never be considered a way to reduce health care costs. Secondly while there may be some individual cases or situations that will require government assistance it should be dealt with at the most local level and should also never be considered a way to reduce cost of health care.
A co-workers mother just received a prescription from a doctor that cost 153.00 but was able to buy the generic for 18.00 simply because the doctor said he thought she had insurance when he wrote the prescription. This is collusion between the insurance company and the doctor and is the very thing that makes our health care unaffordable to so many.
Don't fall for the government run nonsense. lets deal with the real problems that are driving our costs.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Feb 2, 2012 8:54:20 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Paul, the reality is a person of modest income can get better healthcare in Europe or Canada than in this country where they may not get it at all. An income of as little as $800/month disqualifies one from Medicaid in my very liberal state, where an individual policy alone costs a MINIMUM of $800.00 a month. Basically, if you make that kind of money, you are being told to skip healthcare unless your employer provides.

If they can get healthcare at all. To sit here and pretend that people have the same access to care in Canada or Europe is absurdly false. They do not.

Americans are about to learn this the hard way- having access to coverage is NOT the same as having access to care.

Health services in Canada and Europe are rationed- and one of the most common tactics for rationing care is to simply let people die on the waiting list.

www.freemarketcure.com

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I often hear the statistics quoted that people in countries with universal care are healthier. That should scare the shit out of anyone with a brain.

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 3, 2012 11:07:36 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I often hear the statistics quoted that people in countries with universal care are healthier. That should scare the shit out of anyone with a brain.

...who lives in a country without universal healthcare?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 3, 2012 11:07:36 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I often hear the statistics quoted that people in countries with universal care are healthier. That should scare the shit out of anyone with a brain.

i am not following you, Paul. my brain needs coffee. care to explain this?

[fairlycrazy23]

Feb 3, 2012 11:23:56 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

You certainly can't suggest that cost isn't rationing care here, can you Paul? I am going completely without treatment for high cholesterol or routine screenings because I can't afford them. But when I am in a hospital, costing a zillion, my hospitalization coverage will provide. What a deal.

You might be able to find a cholesterol drug at walmart on there $4 list:
i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf

I think other drug stores have similar programs. Maybe not lipitor yet, but now that there is a generic version it might be on the list soon.

[rockon]

"I am going completely without treatment for high cholesterol or routine screenings because I can't afford them."

I know you said in another post that you considered yourself a cheap skate but seriously.. You consider a car, a computer, a phone or almost anything that is not an essential a higher priority then your own health and welfare?
So here are my questions. If people knowingly take health risks that they assume will cost more in the long run should the tax payer have to pay for it and would a government run program just reduce personal accountability?

[rockon]

While Lipitor may be the easy way to control cholesterol there are many natural things including reducing stress, diet and exercise that can also have many beneficial effects and reduce ones food costs at the same time.... But we are Americans and we still want and feel we deserve convenience and easy many times over what makes more sense.

[fairlycrazy23]

You can get a liver profile from www.directlabs.com/Default.aspx?&catid=93&language=en-US&tabid=55

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Feb 3, 2012 11:24:51 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 3, 2012 11:07:36 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I often hear the statistics quoted that people in countries with universal care are healthier. That should scare the shit out of anyone with a brain.

i am not following you, Paul. my brain needs coffee. care to explain this?

Sick people die. Hence, the remaining population is "healthier".

The remaining people have a singular health plan: don't get sick- this is not necessarily a bad thing, but there is significant negative motivation to "not get sick" in these places.

[Deleted]

Feb 2, 2012 17:48:49 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I don't believe that this is correct dem.

cme- I will have to look further. My source was NPR, so I don't have a link to my story. However it alleged that Keystone had a long strategic interest in also selling to China, and wanted to build two pipelines. What they got when the US turned down the proposal for the pipe to Texas was sudden new interest from the PM in the East West deal, which still also faces significant hurdles.

So neither one was a done deal, by any stretch, and the pipeline to Texas was further ahead than the Pacific plans. There were plans for both directions though- and there still are.

However, I have no link for you as I say- and, NPR could have been wrong to, that is my only source for the prior interest in China. (although the article you quote indicates interest in the Chinese market as well.)

When I find something further I will post. Unfortunately I have no time to look now.

Barack Obama’s second decision to reject a permit for TransCanada Corp.'s proposed Keystone XL pipeline to transport Canadian crude oil to the US Gulf Coast had no direct effect on the energy commodities market.

Canadian government officials expressed “extreme disappointment” with Obama’s decision. Premier Alison Redford said it “does not mean that America will consume one less barrel of oil. What it means is this: America will continue to import oil from jurisdictions with much weaker environmental policies and who do not share the same values as Canadians and Americans.” It also “strengthens our resolve to pursue access to alternative markets,” he said.
(source; OGJ online)