pappyjohn99
Familiar Member
The driveway needs a little work.
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 1:01:13 GMT -5
Posts: 928
|
Post by pappyjohn99 on Nov 19, 2011 23:26:33 GMT -5
Shall we pay the skilled pitcher, and the batboy the same? Just to be fair?
|
|
shelby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 21:29:02 GMT -5
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by shelby on Nov 19, 2011 23:28:22 GMT -5
Shall we pay the skilled pitcher, and the batboy the same? Just to be fair? Yes ;D
|
|
pappyjohn99
Familiar Member
The driveway needs a little work.
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 1:01:13 GMT -5
Posts: 928
|
Post by pappyjohn99 on Nov 19, 2011 23:33:46 GMT -5
Ah yes, and we shall all be a fine shade of gray. All equal. All wonderfully.......fair. How very, sad.
|
|
shelby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 21:29:02 GMT -5
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by shelby on Nov 19, 2011 23:47:12 GMT -5
Maybe my sarcasm is not coming through, but obviously we have a differing opinion of eutopia. I am not so much in love with inequality and an ufair society. But I wouldn't want to take away your advantage as it is that would be unfair.
I also find a gray area of thinking with people who say these types of things. From oneside of their mouths they say life is not fair from the otherside if you happen to be on the short end of that stick it is your fault and you are lazy...I cannot figure out how it is both.
|
|
pappyjohn99
Familiar Member
The driveway needs a little work.
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 1:01:13 GMT -5
Posts: 928
|
Post by pappyjohn99 on Nov 19, 2011 23:53:26 GMT -5
Shelby, on of the saddest things that we have lost in this country is the understanding that " Life is not fair. And that is a good thing."
Work, study, be industryious, treat people well, and you will get ahead. Now we got us a nation of people with thier hands out saying "gimme"
It is pitiful.
|
|
shelby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 21:29:02 GMT -5
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by shelby on Nov 20, 2011 0:03:58 GMT -5
Shelby, on of the saddest things that we have lost in this country is the understanding that " Life is not fair. And that is a good thing." Work, study, be industryious, treat people well, and you will get ahead. Now we got us a nation of people with thier hands out saying "gimme" It is pitiful. I think it is pitiful that you focus so much attention on those people you say want everything for nothing which is a minute nuber compared to the people truely struggling working being industrious and still falling behind you wish to ignore. "" Life is not fair. And that is a good thing." You obviously are not a woman black gay disabled born in mexico or africa grew up in poverty........I mean what woud happen if we attained a higher level of equity and fairness would your head explode or would you lose all so important enemy those who which you can blame and look down on?
|
|
shelby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 21:29:02 GMT -5
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by shelby on Nov 20, 2011 0:26:04 GMT -5
Ok I am done being dramatic just proves there is a large difference in values among americans and it is no wonder we are so divided. I just would like to know what we all can agree that would be a positive change for everyone....anything anything? tick tick tick.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Nov 20, 2011 10:32:50 GMT -5
Shelby, on of the saddest things that we have lost in this country is the understanding that " Life is not fair. And that is a good thing." Work, study, be industryious, treat people well, and you will get ahead. Now we got us a nation of people with thier hands out saying "gimme" It is pitiful. I think it is pitiful that you focus so much attention on those people you say want everything for nothing which is a minute nuber compared to the people truely struggling working being industrious and still falling behind you wish to ignore. "" Life is not fair. And that is a good thing." You obviously are not a woman black gay disabled born in mexico or africa grew up in poverty........I mean what woud happen if we attained a higher level of equity and fairness would your head explode or would you lose all so important enemy those who which you can blame and look down on? i am with you, shelby. what is sad is that we have lost human empathy. that we think that unfairness is anything other than wrong. i think a society that has lost interest in the advancement of it's least is a lost society. we used to care about things like rehabilitating criminals, feeding the impoverished. now, we want everyone to bootstrap, even the SAHM who is raising 3 kids on nothing after her husband is killed in combat.
|
|
pappyjohn99
Familiar Member
The driveway needs a little work.
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 1:01:13 GMT -5
Posts: 928
|
Post by pappyjohn99 on Nov 20, 2011 20:17:17 GMT -5
Hey DJ, your right. I have seen the light. I am going to stop hunting unicorns, poisoning butterflies, and repossesing homes from widows. But I gotta draw the line at helping women that were foolish enough to marry soilders and have a slew of kids. They are on thier own.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Nov 20, 2011 21:24:48 GMT -5
Hey DJ, your right. I have seen the light. I am going to stop hunting unicorns, poisoning butterflies, and repossesing homes from widows. But I gotta draw the line at helping women that were foolish enough to marry soilders and have a slew of kids. They are on thier own. LOL! ;D
|
|
ameiko
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 16, 2011 10:48:22 GMT -5
Posts: 812
|
Post by ameiko on Nov 20, 2011 21:32:36 GMT -5
Flat tax. No deductions.
No welfare, WIC, Food stamps, Section 8 housing.
Keep government within its Constitutional boundaries.
Everyone pays their fair share, no one is a parasite, and everyone can finally STFU and take care of themselves!
|
|
ameiko
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 16, 2011 10:48:22 GMT -5
Posts: 812
|
Post by ameiko on Nov 20, 2011 21:35:41 GMT -5
The people who are embrassing themselves are the morons who whine about bailouts and then demand where is their own? Hypocritical much? At least the banks had to pay uss back but the OWS want straight up theft!
Also, they have ZERO clue how their demands for more government intrusion, including taxation, is what lead to the government having the means and power to give bailouts IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
Also, they are clueless in that every time they try to "soak the rich" like the original income tax or AMT, it inevitably affects the middle class either directly (via loss of jobs) or directly as those policies fall on the not so rich.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Nov 21, 2011 12:22:00 GMT -5
But how many of the struggling working poor who are collecting benefits got there due to bad decisions? The time to have a baby is when you have marketable skills, a career launched and are with someone who has done the same. I think the perception by many is that the vast majority of welfare cases are due to folks not bothering to get their ducks in a row before breeding, not a hard working person who was struck down by misfortune.
There is a big difference between pushing a broom because that is all you can do, and pushing a broom because you chose to slack off in school and have no desire to better yourself. And if you want to push a broom, that's fine, but don't go out and create children you can't support and then complain that a 'living wage' job wasn't just handed to you. And those of us who cared enough about our future children to better ourselves before having them have every reason to resent being taxed to support those who didn't.
|
|
shelby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 21:29:02 GMT -5
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by shelby on Nov 21, 2011 16:47:16 GMT -5
"And those of us who cared enough about our future children to better ourselves before having them have every reason to resent being taxed to support those who didn't. "
Didn't we already have this conversation? and it didn't end well.
Also helping all people is a way to help yourself, protect all of us from big money interests who have no problem keeping most people pushing a broom for the rest of their lives at low pay...regardless of skills or education. You think job creators care about paying people for their skills? or paying as little as possible to make a buck? Remember the lower the lowest is paid will lower all pay it is clearly happening. We have a right to be angry and look out for ourselves. You can spin our problems however you want we all know they exist. People are getting poorer and falling behind. More people are graduating from college than ever before and more skilled than ever before so to blame it all on the lazy is silly, this would have always been the case.....unless you admit that the jobs that supported the middle class no longer do support them. Or are you just OK with our new reality and having to work ever harder pay more and more for an education that only puts you where your high school educated grandparents were 30 years ago?
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Nov 21, 2011 17:44:47 GMT -5
Shelby, I do agree with you that corporations are greedy and would be paying everybody $1/hour if they could. But I fail to see how paying the janitor $20/hour will get me a raise. What it will accomplish is taking away any incetive he and many others would have to gain marketable skills. And once companies can't find people who can do the job, even the ones who don't want to will be forced to outsource.
Yes, more people are getting college degrees than ever, but a good chunk of these college graduates have less knowledge, less work ethic, and less ability to learn than the typical high school grad did 30 years ago. And by the way, 3 of my 4 grandparents didn't get past 8th grade, but none of them were as utterly untrainable as the moronic college grads I had to deal with at my last job. Talk about money down the drain.
And let me also point out that one reason people are getting poorer and falling behind is because they are making bad decisions. With the birth control options they have today, there is no good reason for somebody to have children they can't afford. In my family, almost nobody walked into a 'living wage' job as soon as they finished school. Both my parent's and grandparent's generation spent the first 5-10 years of their marriages childless with both working, living in a small apartment on one salary and banking the other, until they could pay cash for their first house. This sort of thing was pretty common back then. Most young couples today want a house the moment they get married, if not before, and saddle themselves with mortgage and car payments so high that they will spend their entire lives living on the edge.
|
|
shelby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 21:29:02 GMT -5
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by shelby on Nov 21, 2011 17:59:00 GMT -5
"Both my parent's and grandparent's generation spent the first 5-10 years of their marriages childless with both working, living in a small apartment on one salary and banking the other, until they could pay cash for their first house."
Not from my point of view I know all the older generations 60s plus it was very common to get married in high school and drop out to have babies. The only thing different is many men went into the military to support a family then actually came out with a decent job. Good luck with that today, I totally don't buy the we are less responsible argument less and less people are even having children our birthrate for kids born to American citizens is declining we are waiting longer and longer to get married the average age is older for first time parents...try saving up to buy a house with cash in this day and age with 2 incomes see how long it takes....most likely you would never have babies if that was your intended route. Sure some can I am sure you will point out but the average or even a meaningful amount no.
|
|
shelby
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 21:29:02 GMT -5
Posts: 1,368
|
Post by shelby on Nov 21, 2011 18:03:48 GMT -5
"Yes, more people are getting college degrees than ever, but a good chunk of these college graduates have less knowledge, less work ethic, and less ability to learn than the typical high school grad did 30 years ago. And by the way, 3 of my 4 grandparents didn't get past 8th grade, but none of them were as utterly untrainable as the moronic college grads I had to deal with at my last job. Talk about money down the drain. "
Nothing in this statement is reality just your opinion and an attempt to blame someone for your failed argument.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Nov 21, 2011 18:46:24 GMT -5
Yes, the middle class folks are having children later, and crushing student loans are certainly a factor. But back in the 40's-60's it was a lot more common for couples to scrimp and save for many years before buying a house and the houses they bought were considerably smaller and had less stuff in them than the houses being built today. Having been raised by a woman who remembers the depression, I have a very different view of money than most people my age. I have made sacrifices most people my age and income wouldn't make for no other reason than to save for a rainy day. Heck most Baby Boomers seem irresponsible to me. So that may color my view of this generation verses the previous ones. After 5 years out of college I had a year's salary saved. Had I married a similarly earning man right out of school, we could have easily saved enough to buy a house for cash in that time frame, assuming he had the same views on money and didn't have a lot of student loan debt.
By the way, there is also a large subset of the population that have babies at a very young age without getting married and without getting any further education and their birthrates are doing just fine. Those are the folks I was talking about when I railed about those who didn't care about their future children enough to better themselves before having them.
|
|
gavinsnana
Senior Member
If we forget we are One Nation Under God, then we are a Nation gone under. Ronald Reagan
Joined: Oct 13, 2011 11:02:40 GMT -5
Posts: 3,201
|
Post by gavinsnana on Nov 21, 2011 18:57:05 GMT -5
Just another rant from the wrong side of history. You had 70 years to make your welfare state work. You blew through trillions fighting you failed war on poverty. We've watched you blow our money on one failed government program after another from the WPA to Solyndra. It's over. In 2012, the country is ours again. Your flailing about is but the twitching of a corpse. I feel the same way, but you said it much better than I could!
|
|